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Lord Raul

How "Gay" will the show get?

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From some of the posts here it seems that some people think a person must be a bigot/homophobe because they think sex between two men is gross. Well, I also think sex between two elderly people is gross, but that doesn't mean I hate old people. :rolleyes:

If a gay man says he thinks man-woman sex is gross, are you going to call him a bigot/heterophobe?

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I think it is important in the show to make sure the audience knows what the score is between Loras and Renly. Otherwise why Renly and Loras skip town to crown Renly King and why Renly is conspiring to marry Robert to Loras's sister are hard to understand. In the books they are just seeds planted for ACoK but in a TV show I think you need to make the nature of Renly and Loras' plotting (they want to rule together) clearer.

Just my two cents.

And yes you are a homophobe. The first step is admitting you have a problem. Stop worrying and learn to love teh gay.

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I fail to understand the issue. A story from a book is inevitably told differently in a series.

As others have said, Renly and Loras's relationship needs to be explicit as it will allows viewers to understand the Tyrells's involvement in the game of thrones.

If HBO chooses to go for a hot scene showing gay sex then the audience can always choose not to watch it.

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From some of the posts here it seems that some people think a person must be a bigot/homophobe because they think sex between two men is gross. Well, I also think sex between two elderly people is gross, but that doesn't mean I hate old people. :rolleyes:

If a gay man says he thinks man-woman sex is gross, are you going to call him a bigot/heterophobe?

I am not one of those people who thinks someone is a homophobe or bigot just because they find sex between two people of the same gender gross. However, I think Lord Raul took it too far. Not only was he grossed out at the idea of gay sex, he felt it was wrong for HBO to show it, but raised no objections to them showing explicit heterosexual sex and suggested that this gay scene was merely a political ploy.

The latter was particularly ridiculous since these gay characters had sex in Martin's story. Just because neither of them were PoV characters, we didn't see it up close and personal. However, HBO isn't bound by the books' PoV restrictions and can show us scenes we didn't experience directly in the books.

A reasonable person who is not a bigot or homophobe but finds sex between two men gross would have just have resolved to skip that scene when it came on the show instead of acting indignant and upset that HBO plans to air it and would not have starting a thread to whine about it.

I'm quite glad he's banned. Good riddance.

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I have watched the whole series of Oz.

I am prepared!

Haha, I love that show - somehow I always forget about the MASSIVE amounts of gay love that went on (not ashamed to admit that I was quite pleased with it, too). So many hot guys, yesh. Now I need to give that show a whirl again.

The Blackfish is a Hustler, baby.

And he just wants you to know? It ain't where he been?

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Right they are not major characters so the only reason they will be showing there gay scenes is to appease the LGBT community. Also some of us in this world, are not hate filled losers, but just don't like in your face gay sex. Its repulsive to most straight men, nothing wrong with that. Nothing to be embarrassed about that I don't like seeing that filth on TV if it is not within a proper context, and its just to make some perverts happy. And yes if you are excited to see these scenes then you have problems. However if the scenes were in the books, and they were put into the show, I would not say a word and would enjoy the programming as is.

Why did you read these novels? What did you get out of them? Why are you so offended by gay sex? Are you offended by children being abused (and killed) in the novels? Or is that ok? You don't seem to have a problem with the lesbian sex scene in the novel, would you have continued to read the novels if there was a similar scene between Renly and Loras?

If your concerned with what you call filth on TV, don't watch it... And don't waste your time (and ours) with these trollish posts.

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Also, I didn't know GRRM said the Tyrells knew about Loras' sexuality. When did that happen?

In the scene after the Blackwater where Loras joins the Kingsguard, it's mentioned that "finding a bride for a third son was always difficult, and doubly so in Ser Loras's case", and so putting him in the KG helps Mace by relieving him of the need to do so. Definitely hinting that Mace at least knows of his son's preferences.

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[mod] Right. I am going to lay out some ground rules for this thread continuing.

We are not going to tolerate the argument that 'they shouldn't show this because it is gross'. This adds exactly zero to the discussion. You're absolutely entitled to your own personal reaction to any form or even instance of sex. You're not entitled to claim that reaction is an objective argument against the depiction of that kind of sex in the show. For one thing, that would be completely bogus, along the lines of claiming that since beheadings make you feel woozy, they should not show any in the series. For another, it threatens to derail the whole discussion into pointless bickering about who is or isn't being homophobic. That is not going to go anywhere good, I assure you. And finally, frankly, it's insulting to the many users of this board who are themselves homosexual.

(And yes, all of that would apply also to anyone who suggested that hetero sex was 'gross' and so shouldn't be in the show.)

If you want to make an argument such as 'many viewers might react badly to the open depiction of homosexuality and that could cost the show viewers', go ahead. If you want to argue that there is no such scene in the books, go ahead. But don't bother telling us whether it grosses you out. We don't care.

If anybody doesn't like this, or think it's fair: PM a mod. If anybody fails to respect it: thread closed. [/mod]

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It will be interesting seeing how non-readers pick up on and react to it - I'd guess it's going to be easier to spot than in the books. Hopefully it won't generate too much stupi er, 'controversy'.

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Haha, I love that show - somehow I always forget about the MASSIVE amounts of gay love that went on

Don't forget the spooning...

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I think the OP bashing here is a bit uncalled for. I have to say I do agree with him that I don't like the idea of making Renly/Loras a big open relationship as opposed to the little back detail/easter egg it was in the books.

Edited out comments on sex upon seeing mod ruling. Suffice to say I didn't think the OP was being so bad.

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As Renly and Loras are in the series, they need to make a point of these two guys, or either they are just background characters in season 1. And if they are that, the audience might be a little too surprised in the 2nd season (as I was when reading ACoK) when Renly has suddenly 70,000 men in his army.

If Loras would only give a rose to Sansa, mess around with the Clegane brothers, and end up being treated like a child by Ned, then you could omit the whole character from the show.

And Renly, well, he actually does not much in the book. He sits around in the council, makes a few jokes, and has one important conversation with Ned. This is a flaw of the book, as Renly and Loras have their own plans, and are, in their own way, as power hungry as the usual suspects.

And their relationship really is at the core of this whole thing. It is no coincidence that the gay son of Mace Tyrell ended up becoming squire to King Robert's gay brother. The Tyrells planted him there, and things went as they were supposed to go - they fell in love with each other.

If you want to give Renly and Loras some space, you have to show this relationship, and considering Loras' later line about setting suns and candles, they loved each other very much.

So it's either showing them and their relationship, or omitting it. But then you could omit both characters as well...

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I think the OP bashing here is a bit uncalled for. I have to say I do agree with him that I don't like the idea of making Renly/Loras a big open relationship as opposed to the little back detail/easter egg it was in the books.

Some people here are still confusing "open" as in 'an openly homosexual character' (that is a character who either deliberatly lets it be known that he or she is homosexual or does not try to hide it) and "open" as in 'openly depicted homosexual acts'. The latter will, as Ran wrote, fortunately be a part of Game of Thrones, the former - at least in the case of Renly and Loras - hopefully not (because it would be a deviation from the novels, where homosexuality in Westeros seems to be socially accepted only by the Dornish).

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I, frankly, will be thrilled if Renly/Loras is more in-your-face in the TV series. Much as I love the books, the double standard of attention given to lesbian sex vs. gay male sex is very off-putting at times. You see that treatment a lot with straight male fantasy authors, of course, but I'd hoped for more equal treatment with GRRM. It's still somewhat notable that he even mentions gay men in his books, and I'm still holding out hope for a gay male POV character one of these days. ^_^

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I, frankly, will be thrilled if Renly/Loras is more in-your-face in the TV series. Much as I love the books, the double standard of attention given to lesbian sex vs. gay male sex is very off-putting at times. You see that treatment a lot with straight male fantasy authors, of course, but I'd hoped for more equal treatment with GRRM. It's still somewhat notable that he even mentions gay men in his books, and I'm still holding out hope for a gay male POV character one of these days. ^_^

Jon Snow. Why else would he sign up to be posted on a far away frontier surrounded by nothing but male camaraderie? He sure aint a fan of mole town. :P

(yeah, yeah, Ygrette, was joking. Though I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the nights watch did think that way, its what historically drew a lot of gay people to the priesthood afterall)

And their relationship really is at the core of this whole thing. It is no coincidence that the gay son of Mace Tyrell ended up becoming squire to King Robert's gay brother. The Tyrells planted him there, and things went as they were supposed to go - they fell in love with each other.

You think so?

I'm really doubtful there. Squires start squiring when they're just kids, before they're gay or straight or anything.

Though the whole 'hey...Loras looks like he'll be a pretty man, Renly likes boys, maybe we can sacrifice our kid to be groomed by him?' does add a whole level of scheming nastyness to the series.

I've been watching Oz reruns as a primer for Game of Thrones. If I don't see at least two hot gay manlove scenes a week, my love for ASOIAF will be officially OVAH.

Hope I'm not going against what the mod said on this but I'd like as little of that as possible in the series. Both gay and straight sex scenes. Not just because it would make it awkward to watch with my mother (ick!) but because it takes up time and adds nothing to the overall story. By the sounds of things I'm out of luck to a degree on that, just hope it isn't too much. Not a series breaker though.

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