A Thread for Small Questions VII

[Doom of Valyria]

In ASoS, Tyrion and Pod are watching the approaching Dornish delegation sent for Joff's wedding. Tyrion tells Pod that if he can name all of the Dornish Houses by their banners, he will reward him. Pod succeeds, but we're never told what his reward is! I don't think there's an official answer, so speculation is welcome. Perhaps it was the doublet with House Payne's colors that Pod wears on Joff's wedding day?

[Dalan]

In ASoS, Tyrion and Pod are watching the approaching Dornish delegation sent for Joff's wedding. Tyrion tells Pod that if he can name all of the Dornish Houses by their banners, he will reward him. Pod succeeds, but we're never told what his reward is! I don't think there's an official answer, so speculation is welcome. Perhaps it was the doublet with House Payne's colors that Pod wears on Joff's wedding day?

A magical skin toned neck brace +5?

[schpat]

In ASoS, Tyrion and Pod are watching the approaching Dornish delegation sent for Joff's wedding. Tyrion tells Pod that if he can name all of the Dornish Houses by their banners, he will reward him. Pod succeeds, but we're never told what his reward is! I don't think there's an official answer, so speculation is welcome. Perhaps it was the doublet with House Payne's colors that Pod wears on Joff's wedding day?

He probably wasn't feeling too generous after his little talk with Oberyn. :)

[schpat]

Here's a question:

When Petyr told Ned and Cat that he had Varys by the balls, if only he had any balls, was he just lying or did he have something. If so, what?

[Mandurang]

Here's a question:

When Petyr told Ned and Cat that he had Varys by the balls, if only he had any balls, was he just lying or did he have something. If so, what?

That's a short question with a long answer, and it may merit its own thread if you want to discuss it more broadly. Here's the summary:

Given Littlefinger's nature and the context in which this claim is uttered, we may well, with the benefit of the additional information we have, disbelieve it. Littlefinger may be lying, or he may think he controls Varys without it being true. Both scenarios are, to different degrees, somewhat unlikely; the former because it would mean Petyr is trying to convince Ned to not be wary of Varys, which is strange given that Varys is likely to foil Petyr's plans, and the latter because Petyr is too experienced to let himself be deceived in such a way.

The other possibility is that Petyr is telling the truth; he really does believe he has a hold over Varys. Some people have theorized that Petyr knows how Varys obtains information, because right after the comment you ask about, he says: "You see, if the pie is opened, the birds begin to sing, and Varys would not like that." If Petyr knows about Varys' "little birds", it means that he could force Varys to give up his secrets and the truth of his loyalty and goals. Some indirect support for the theory that Petyr knows, is that he has Sansa meet Dontos in the godswood, where Varys' little birds cannot spy on them.

However, all of that is just speculation. Which you think more likely is really up to you, until the truth is revealed.

[Lady Cheesevillage]

I stand by my assessment that Wylla must have had a baby closely before Lyanna. It could have been a stillbirth, so it might not be plot relevant at all.

Even if you assume she had to have a child to produce milk to begin with, there's no reason to assume the child was close in age to Jon. She could have continued nursing her child for years (I know kids who still nurse to sleep at age six!) or have taken on other infants to nurse as her own child grew.

[Doom of Valyria]

When it mentions one of the singers at Joff's wedding plays a song called "Maiden, Mother, and Crone", did anyone else instantly think of the

by The Sword? :P

[Mandurang]

I remember reading somewhere that the words of House Dayne of Starfall are "Fallen and Reborn", but I cannot find any evidence of that anywhere. Can anyone verify? On that note, whence comes all the heraldry and mottoes in the Citadel that we haven't seen in the books?

[Doom of Valyria]

I remember reading somewhere that the words of House Dayne of Starfall are "Fallen and Reborn", but I cannot find any evidence of that anywhere. Can anyone verify? On that note, whence comes all the heraldry and mottoes in the Citadel that we haven't seen in the books?

I'm not sure about House Dayne's motto, but I think a lot of the other info that's not in the books came from interviews with GRRM.

[Radis]

That's a short question with a long answer, and it may merit its own thread if you want to discuss it more broadly. Here's the summary:

Given Littlefinger's nature and the context in which this claim is uttered, we may well, with the benefit of the additional information we have, disbelieve it. Littlefinger may be lying, or he may think he controls Varys without it being true. Both scenarios are, to different degrees, somewhat unlikely; the former because it would mean Petyr is trying to convince Ned to not be wary of Varys, which is strange given that Varys is likely to foil Petyr's plans, and the latter because Petyr is too experienced to let himself be deceived in such a way.

The other possibility is that Petyr is telling the truth; he really does believe he has a hold over Varys. Some people have theorized that Petyr knows how Varys obtains information, because right after the comment you ask about, he says: "You see, if the pie is opened, the birds begin to sing, and Varys would not like that." If Petyr knows about Varys' "little birds", it means that he could force Varys to give up his secrets and the truth of his loyalty and goals. Some indirect support for the theory that Petyr knows, is that he has Sansa meet Dontos in the godswood, where Varys' little birds cannot spy on them.

However, all of that is just speculation. Which you think more likely is really up to you, until the truth is revealed.

I always though it more likely that Petyr had some knowledge of Varys conection with the Targarys, and that if he revealed that Robert would kill him.

[schpat]

That's a short question with a long answer, and it may merit its own thread if you want to discuss it more broadly. Here's the summary:

Given Littlefinger's nature and the context in which this claim is uttered, we may well, with the benefit of the additional information we have, disbelieve it. Littlefinger may be lying, or he may think he controls Varys without it being true. Both scenarios are, to different degrees, somewhat unlikely; the former because it would mean Petyr is trying to convince Ned to not be wary of Varys, which is strange given that Varys is likely to foil Petyr's plans, and the latter because Petyr is too experienced to let himself be deceived in such a way.

The other possibility is that Petyr is telling the truth; he really does believe he has a hold over Varys. Some people have theorized that Petyr knows how Varys obtains information, because right after the comment you ask about, he says: "You see, if the pie is opened, the birds begin to sing, and Varys would not like that." If Petyr knows about Varys' "little birds", it means that he could force Varys to give up his secrets and the truth of his loyalty and goals. Some indirect support for the theory that Petyr knows, is that he has Sansa meet Dontos in the godswood, where Varys' little birds cannot spy on them.

However, all of that is just speculation. Which you think more likely is really up to you, until the truth is revealed.

What an interesting and well thought out reply, WD.

I agree that LF had no reason to outright lie. You raise a goodpoint about knowing about the little birds, I think this might have been what he meant.

The evidence:

LF arranged that Sansa always met with Dontos in the God's Wood, where there were no wall for the birds to hide in.

When Sansa met with tQoT Butterbumps was made to sing very loudly so that they would not be overheard. It's widely speculated that this meeting was arranged by LF.

Good catch there.

[Yarl Snow]

On Varys and Littlefinger: Of course LF knows about the little birds. Varys mentions them outright. I am not so sure LF knows about Varys' real little birds, and that he instead is thinking of Varys' informers; people he pays for information, and various people in places of power. I don't think LF has as much power over Varys as a) he thinks, B) he wants Catelyn and Ned to think.

[Mandurang]

On Varys and Littlefinger: Of course LF knows about the little birds. Varys mentions them outright. I am not so sure LF knows about Varys' real little birds, and that he instead is thinking of Varys' informers; people he pays for information, and various people in places of power. I don't think LF has as much power over Varys as a) he thinks, B) he wants Catelyn and Ned to think.

Yes, everyone knows about the little birds. Varys mentions them often enough. But what I meant was that Littlefinger knows what the little birds are - he is aware of how Varys is able to spy on others and obtain information he normally wouldn't be able to. Or at least that's the theory. The circumstantial evidence for that is what schpat nicely pointed out above.

[BladeDancer]

The Wardens are supposed to be the supreme generals of their territories. The Warden is more of a military rank rather than a lordly title, although in most cases it goes with the lordly domain (that's why it was a big deal for Ned when Robert stripped Jon Arryn's son from the title and gave it to Jaime). There are four Wardens, corresponding to the four sides of the compass. My speculation is that the Wardens have higher military authority and jurisdiction than the other lords i.e. the Warden of the South (who is also the head of House Tyrell) could command the armies of both the Reach and Dorne if he needs to, for example.

This is my understanding too. The 4 Wardens can act as commanders over the other Lords in their Area. The various Lords would know which Warden was in command of their banners. Part of pledging allegiance to the King is to accept the military command of the designated Warden selected by the King. So although the Wardens of the East have been Arryns for generations, the King has the power to designate a new Warden as he sees fit. The Hand of The King has authority over the Wardens as he speaks directly for the King. The Various Wardens cannot command each other unless the King or Hand states this. At least this is my understanding of the Chain of Command.

I think Dorne is a special case because they were joined to the Targaryan Kingdom by marriage rather than conquest. So Dorne has been able to negotiate a degree of autonomy and slightly different laws. I believe the Prince of Dorne is outside the authority of the Warden of the South. All indications are that because of past clashes Dornish Lords would never follow Tyrells.

[Mandurang]

I believe the title of Warden is one of those little disparities in the storytelling between the first book and the subsequent ones, like Tyrion's acrobatics. If you recall, in the first book giving Jaime the title of Warden of the West was a major point of contention between Robert and Ned; at one point Ned thinks that it would "put half of the armies of the realm in the hands of Lannisters." However, that claim seems more and more unlikely as we progress through the books. Would the Arryns, the Royces, and the rest have called the banners to fight at the command of Jaime Lannister? In AFfC they almost rebelled against Petyr, who was bound by marriage to Lysa Arryn, and who isn't really the Warden - does not have command of the armies - but merely the Lord Protector of the Eyrie. In my second and every other reread of the books, I have tried to find a way to reconcile Ned's feelings about the office being offered to Jaime, but it's always something that seems out of place.

[Lasair]

I believe the title of Warden is one of those little disparities in the storytelling between the first book and the subsequent ones, like Tyrion's acrobatics. If you recall, in the first book giving Jaime the title of Warden of the West was a major point of contention between Robert and Ned; at one point Ned thinks that it would "put half of the armies of the realm in the hands of Lannisters." However, that claim seems more and more unlikely as we progress through the books. Would the Arryns, the Royces, and the rest have called the banners to fight at the command of Jaime Lannister? In AFfC they almost rebelled against Petyr, who was bound by marriage to Lysa Arryn, and who isn't really the Warden - does not have command of the armies - but merely the Lord Protector of the Eyrie. In my second and every other reread of the books, I have tried to find a way to reconcile Ned's feelings about the office being offered to Jaime, but it's always something that seems out of place.

I concur. It seems to be something that was quietly dropped.

A possibility, though, is that as Westerosi politics moved into unchartered territory, traditional and tenuous ties to whoever the current Warden of the Compass Point is were just ignored by the houses. Hell, even bannermen were switching sides. Look at the Florents and the Westerlings. And we have to assume that families in the direct line of vassalage would be far more loyal than ties of great houses to a kingly appointment.

We know that Ned was somebody who failed to anticipate change. This may have been yet another thing that more adaptable/wily/treasonous characters would have laughed at him for believing.

[zmflavius]

I believe the Prince of Dorne is outside the authority of the Warden of the South. All indications are that because of past clashes Dornish Lords would never follow Tyrells.

I'm not so certain of this. Oberyn Martell says that during the reign of Daeron the Young Dragon, the Tyrell lord was in charge of holding down the Dornishmen, because of his geographic location presumably. This would indicate that the Warden of the South does have jurisdiction over the Dornishmen. Of course, the marriage does mean that the Warden of the South has less influence over Dorne than he would have had through conquest, but I believe that Renly's assumption of Dorne's loyalty when Tyrell pledged to him indicates that it is assumed that Dorne would be obligated to follow the Warden of the South, however much it might rankle them.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I think Littlefinger does have a good reason to keep Ned from suspecting Varys. Varys and Littlefinger are basically working in tandem to pit Ned against the Lannisters. If Ned starts focusing on Varys as his enemy, then he might be skeptical when Varys began to insinuate that the Lannisters had killed Jon Arryn and were ready to kill the king.

[Talleyrand]

Does someone close to Dany die in the red wastes?

[Xenophon]

Does someone close to Dany die in the red wastes?

One of her handmaids. The non-Dothraki/sex-instructor, if I remember right.