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[Book Spoilers] An Unexpected Death

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I'm thinking that if Hoster dies in S1, viewers could get the info about why Lysa was married to Jon some other way and much earlier, which could potentially allow the writers to basically resolve the mystery of Jon Arryn's death in that series or early in series 2. Much neater, rather than having that whole plot hang about for multiple series (which I think will be awkward on TV): but that screws with the timing re: Sansa being taken out of KL. So maybe not.

Jeor - NOOOOOOO!!! Actually that's not at all likely IMO. Too major a character. And while you could promote Jon early, I think the chances of them undertaking such huge surgery to the plotline at the Wall are low. They clearly want to give Kit Harington screen time.

On the other hand, killing Karstark skips that whole arc, allowing you to cut any reference to Willem and Tion Lannister ever being captured. Let's face it, there is no chance of characters that far down the list ever being featured (even as an extra or offscreen), and the Karstark subplot doesn't work without them. So we get rid of a handful of minor characters and a subplot that, as Dragonfish points out, is arguably superfluous anyway. Seems like the best candidate.

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Has HBO ever ordered multiple years at a time for a series? I have no idea myself, just asking the question, but I haven't heard of something like that before.

Kind of. Oz Season 4 and The Sopranos Season 6 were effectively two seasons commissioned and treated legally/contractually as one season each but shown as two (and I think filmed as two as well, but I could be wrong about that).

For a comparable situation, HBO could order 'Season 2' of GoT but as say 24 or 26 episodes to be filmed and transmitted over two years, covering ACoK, ASoS and potentially some sequences from AFFC (i.e. moving the ironborn chapters into their correct chronological order).

they may have also indicated that they're not willing to go beyond a certain number of episodes.

Interesting you should say that:

"I think it's a legitimate concern because it's potentially 60-70 hours of your life you're investing," Weiss says. "It's fair to want to know that there's somebody at the wheel and that it's going to lead you to a place where you feel that ultimately it was worth investing that time." Fortunately for fans, Martin has been serving as an available advisor for producers, and they say the partnership, however loose, has given them inside knowledge about what lies ahead for Jon Snow, Daenerys and the other denizens of Westeros. "George has proven through the discussions we've had that he's always known in the rough, broad strokes where this is going to end up," Weiss says."And we think it's going to end up in a way that is uniquely satisfying."

I'm hoping that doesn't mean that HBO have said seven 10-episode seasons and not a penny more, because that will involve colossal changes and cuts to the story. Proably Weiss was picking a random figure off the top of his head (maybe influenced by the fact that The Wire lasted 60 episodes).

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As many times as the previews have featured "He who passes the sentence should swing the sword," I'd be surprised if it were Karstark. It's important to Robb's story of how his honor and Northern ways lead to his undoing, just like his father.

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Before we try to guess, we need list of character who share appearance in AGOT and death in ASOS, are male and killed, not just pass away. No females, no men died for old age, and no extra people who don't even show in one of the books. This kind of information is already confusing.

My first guess is Benjen (Hell, nobody said that character is off the show, just that he is killed. Or...)

Karstark - great idea, possible idea

Hoster - possible idea, not great idea, but acceptable one

Beric - possible idea, great idea, but not acceptable one

Sandor - dubious

Robb - why I put him here?

Tywin - I did it again

Joffrey - I need to stop this

Jorah Mormont - maybe he is killed after he was banished

Jeor Mormont - unlikely, changes the story, atmosphere, everything...

Craster - don't know...

Shae - likely, not very possible, not very good idea

Ohh, Shae is female :facepalm:

Cheat - likely, possible and good idea

I can't remember anything else, now. Bye, guys!

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Has HBO ever ordered multiple years at a time for a series? I have no idea myself, just asking the question, but I haven't heard of something like that before.

On a series as expensive as GOT, surely it'd make good commercial sense to film Seasons 2 & 3 in parallel? AFAIR, Jackson got some serious economies of scale in filming all three LOTR movies in one go.

Could explain HBO's reluctance to greenlight Season 2 before getting audience numbers if, in fact, the decision commits them to two series worth of production costs?

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Guys, It's very possible that the character being killed off could be from the prologue of ASoS. So it could be Chett, or one of the other flunkies.

Thuogh a very interesting point has been raised in this thread: Could the producers cut Brienne completely from the show? I mean honestly, she doesn't add much at all.

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Thuogh a very interesting point has been raised in this thread: Could the producers cut Brienne completely from the show? I mean honestly, she doesn't add much at all.

I disagree. I think Brienne plays an important part in Jaime's arc, and her story might not yet be done in the series.

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As many times as the previews have featured "He who passes the sentence should swing the sword," I'd be surprised if it were Karstark. It's important to Robb's story of how his honor and Northern ways lead to his undoing, just like his father.

If they do kill off Karstark in Season 1 they could always do the betrayal and execution plotline with the Greatjon. Unless of course GRRM's plans for the Greatjon are more than sitting in a dungeon at the Twins for the next few years.

Still think it's Rast though. In the book we get a named character (Ser Jaremy Rykker) killed in the Wight attack, as Ser Jaremy doesn't seem to be in the show killing off Rast in his place seems a reasonable alternative.

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They've taken the time to cast and introduce Rast, no doubt as a villian of Jon's story. His death at the hands of a wight will be very satisfying to the audience, and I can completely agree with that sort of change. The only thing that makes me think it probably isn't Rast is the fact GRRM mentioned it at all. Does he really care about a change to such an incredibly minor character?

I don't think so. Honestly, if it were someone like Rast, I doubt GRRM would even go back to Weiss and Beinoff and say "Hey, this guy is supposed to live until ASOS."

The more I think about it, the more it looks like Hoster Tully. The tansy business is arguably unnecessary anyway and it's hard for me to see how it works on TV. They can easily make Lysa explain what hapenned to their baby (I think she does in the books anyway, no)?

Thuogh a very interesting point has been raised in this thread: Could the producers cut Brienne completely from the show? I mean honestly, she doesn't add much at all.

Brienne's, um, "arc", for lack of a beeter word, in AFFC will have to be cut, right? I do agree that she is important to Jaime's arc in ASOS, so it will be a major change to cut her alltogether.

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Still think it's Rast though. In the book we get a named character (Ser Jaremy Rykker) killed in the Wight attack, as Ser Jaremy doesn't seem to be in the show killing off Rast in his place seems a reasonable alternative.

I wanted to write exactly the same. (But I admit I was inspired by the discussion on winter-is-coming.net)

I don't think it's Hoster, because if they kill him off off-screen, why introduce him at all?

I don't think it's Beric either, because if they decide to kill him and leave the BwB out, they could just leave him completly out.

No way it is Tywin, Robb or Old Bear Mormont.

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I am thinking that GRRM said this to Weiss and Benioff as more of a tongue and cheek thing, and we are probably taking it out of context, making it seem mroe serious than it really is. It isn't like George doesn't like little games, and this HAS given us something to ponder over. I really am leaning towards it being Beric dies, but it doesn't matter because he dies all the time, or its Rast, and it doesn't matter because Rast doesn't matter.

If hes serious-mode then I can see Hoster being added to the list. Anyone else besides those 3 though? Don't think we have much to worry about.

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I'm thinking that if Hoster dies in S1, viewers could get the info about why Lysa was married to Jon some other way and much earlier, which could potentially allow the writers to basically resolve the mystery of Jon Arryn's death in that series or early in series 2.

I don't think Hoster is needed at all to solve the mystery of Jon Arryn's death. He wanted to take Robert/Robin away from Lysa, so he was poisoned by har and his lover Petyr. End of story. If I were writing the show I would leave it at that.

I really am leaning towards it being Beric dies, but it doesn't matter because he dies all the time, or its Rast, and it doesn't matter because Rast doesn't matter.

I agree. That's why I believe is Hoster, with the only credible alternative of Rickard Karstark.

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I can't really come up with anyone other than Beric, Hoster, or Karstark that makes any real sense. The other characters seem too important and major to do that. Mormont makes no sense unless they're completely changing the entire Nights Watch storyline (and I mean COMPLETELY changing). If Mormont dies in Season 1 you either have to do some weird thing where someone else becomes the Lord Commander (in which case why even bother killing Mormont, he could have served that purpose) or you make Jon there early, which would be enormously stupid, make no sense, and eliminate all kinds of stuff from Halfhand to Ygritte to meeting the Wildlings to Jon breaking his oath to...I can go on. You cannot make Jon the leader that early and keep all that stuff in without some really stupid leaps of logic, and I can't come up with any reason to kill Mormont and replace him with someone else filling the exact role short of the actor refusing to continue on the series. Most of the others (Tywin, Robb, Joffrey) make even less sense than that.

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I can't really come up with anyone other than Beric, Hoster, or Karstark that makes any real sense.

I agree. If Ran hadn't a chance to question GRRM about it I may have considered Rast also but since he did, I would rule him out. GRRM would know how excited we would get and he would want to make it clearer that it was a very unimportant character.

For all D&D know, this show could be a much bigger hit than anyone is anticipating. HBO may end up asking them to extend this show for as long as they possibly can, so why start throwing away potentially great aspects of the books like Beric when they may not even need to?

I half agree with this. For Beric you may as well leave it ambiguous whether he is dead or not. That's the whole point of Beric. :) That is why he is only my third choice.

At the same time, if its not Beric, I would definitely understand if they decided to take action sooner rather than later. There is so much going on in the books that there is no way they are going to cover everything. So rather than just ignore all the plot threads in aSoS until they start (hopefully) writing that season, it would actually be very sensible to already have a plan. There obviously should be some flexibility in the plan but a plan is important.

And I don't think its realistic to assume that HBO is going to say we'll make 11 (for example) seasons of GoT. I doubt anyone will be keen on been involved for 11 seasons. And if HBO was willing to finance a couple extra episodes in a season, they'll still have plenty material to cover.

I'd be shocked if the Greatjon dies in aSoS. Greatjon is a big favourite in the books and his survival is one of those little glimmers of hope that we can grab onto. Having Robb kill him would be dreadful. He'll be left with nobody. While i'd also agree that Brienne is vital in aSoS.

I don't think it's Hoster, because if they kill him off off-screen, why introduce him at all?

He is Cat's father. Cat's last couple of years are very painful. We wouldn't want to make things easier for her! And it might be the reason for the return of the Blackfish (whereever he is).

I don't think Hoster is needed at all to solve the mystery of Jon Arryn's death. He wanted to take Robert/Robin away from Lysa, so he was poisoned by har and his lover Petyr. End of story. If I were writing the show I would leave it at that.

Hoster gives us some background info on Lysa, which explains why she killed Jon. But he is not essential. And Lysa can reveal it if it does matter.

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You know, for the life of me I can't even remember who Rast was. Can someone remind me how he dies in ASoS?

Since his character clearly wasn't so important as to leave a mark on my memory, I'd be most happy with his death, followed by Karstark's, then Hoster's, then Beric's.

However, I really don't think it'd be Hoster, because as I and others have said why kill offscreen a character the audience has never met? I also don't think it'd be Beric; why make him definitely dead (when Gregor cuts him down) when making him "mostly dead" as in the books would leave their options open? They can decide later on whether to cut his character or not, so why do it now?

No, to me the options that make the most sense are Rast and Karstark. I hope it's the former, but I'd be fine with the latter.

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You know, for the life of me I can't even remember who Rast was. Can someone remind me how he dies in ASoS?

Since his character clearly wasn't so important as to leave a mark on my memory, I'd be most happy with his death, followed by Karstark's, then Hoster's, then Beric's.

However, I really don't think it'd be Hoster, because as I and others have said why kill offscreen a character the audience has never met? I also don't think it'd be Beric; why make him definitely dead (when Gregor cuts him down) when making him "mostly dead" as in the books would leave their options open? They can decide later on whether to cut his character or not, so why do it now?

No, to me the options that make the most sense are Rast and Karstark. I hope it's the former, but I'd be fine with the latter.

Rast was a rapist that came to the Night's Watch the same time as Jon. He's left behind to defend Castle Black in ASOS and is killed by a spear in the wildling attack.

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Martin wasn't upset, so it's not a prominent character, so not Robb, Catelyn, Joffery, Tywin or Jeor.

Not a woman, so not Lysa or Shea.

People have brought up characters like Rast, but he's so minor, I doubt he'll be in the show at all. But if he is, my money is on him. I'd say the widget Ghost found kills him.

It wouldn't make sense for him to talk about Beric like this. They've included Beric so they can possibly bring him back in season 3. If they decide not to pursue the Brothers without Banners storyline or to not include Beric in the third season, they certainly won't have decided that yet.

The only character who is important enough to where he can't be excluded but not important enough to where his death won't have a plot impact is Hoster Tully. Yes, it changes the dynamics in Riverrum a little bit, and Catelyn will be upset that she didn't have a chance to go and say good-bye, but I think that's an imteresting sub plot, if it's done right. It could also explain why Blackfish leaves the Eyrie and isn't there when Catelyn arrives; because he's saying good-bye to his brother. (I really, really hope that they mention Blackfish in this season, because I think it's important to the character that his fights with his brother caused to leave the riverlands.)

Another reason I think it's Hoster is because Dan and David were talking about the amount of new characters introduced in A Clash of Kings, they're gonna have to scale that back. Add the Tully's to the list of new characters, they know they have to make some tough calls in who to exclude. So, killing Hoster off screen in the first season is an easy way to scale back one character, at least.

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I think I can say this: it's a VERY minor character. Karstark, Dondarrion, Lancel, etc. can be ruled out.

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