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[Book Spoilers] An Unexpected Death

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Link to an article or interview for this?

"The main concern that I flagged David and Dan with was … what I call “the butterfly effect” … there are many minor characters that appear, and it looks as though, “OK, we can cut this character.” … But then in Book 3, that character has a huge role to play … I try to tell them about it. Sometimes they address it, sometimes not, in which case, two seasons from now, if we’re still on the air, we’ll see how they deal with that."

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Newsflash: D&D aren't George. They aren't always going to agree.

But you're spinning what George is saying if you don't include the other part where he says he's overall very happy with what they've done, even if it isn't always what he would have done.

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"The main concern that I flagged David and Dan with was … what I call “the butterfly effect” … there are many minor characters that appear, and it looks as though, “OK, we can cut this character.” … But then in Book 3, that character has a huge role to play … I try to tell them about it. Sometimes they address it, sometimes not, in which case, two seasons from now, if we’re still on the air, we’ll see how they deal with that."

Based on this quote, it is not clear that Martin doesn't like THIS specific change. There might be other changes involving killing off characters that Martin might not want to see done, but he's not referring to this change as far as I can tell.

Also, I think Martin will take a very reasonable approach to this, given his experience in TV production. Sometimes, things just have to be cut. It was, after all, the impetus that drove him to start writing the book series in the first place. So I'm just not that convinced that Martin is going to be easily upset about changes to his story. In all the quoted articles I read, he had been nothing but wonderful and praising of the episodes that he had seen. Granted, it can be just for PR purpose, but that's the evidence we have.

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So things are. George RR Martin works in the series and says he disagrees with the writers. ME LOOK LIKE A VERY BAD NEWS. If they do, "Storm of Swords" How will you fill that empty plot?

At risk of being wrong.

If they change things that significantly affect events in ASOS it's not unlikely that they will just leave it out entirely. It's very probable that HBO will only consent to one season per book and it's completely impossible to fit ASOS into one season and make it somewhat coherent, unless you cut some things out and focus on the rest.

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Oh man, now they're all going nuts over at Winter Is Coming based on a confusing reference to this same thing, ignoring Ran's repeated disclaimers about it being a VERY MINOR character, and even proposing people who didn't die in book 3. Seriously, people are still putting forth arguments for why it must be Tywin, or Theon.

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Oh man, now they're all going nuts over at Winter Is Coming based on a confusing reference to this same thing, ignoring Ran's repeated disclaimers about it being a VERY MINOR character, and even proposing people who didn't die in book 3. Seriously, people are still putting forth arguments for why it must be Tywin, or Theon.

LOL I saw that - didn't I see some people say Robb or Catelyn too? I was going to AGAIN clarify but I figure if they aren't going to read the other posts, what is gonna make them read mine?

Edit: The funniest thing is Theon, of course, cause he ain't dead. lol

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Rast sounds very likely. The only thing that makes me a little doubtful is that talking to Luke MacEwan during the last Belfast Moot he was asking me if Rast was still alive at the end of ACOK and he looked really relieved when I told him that was the case and looking forward to be part of a potential second season. Shouldn't he know by then that his character was to be killed off during the first season? I thought the actors get provided with the script for the whole season, but maybe they just get them by shooting blocks instead.

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Smegma: probably nothing. I mean, I tried, and there's a guy who did read my comment and replied to it, and he's still going full speed ahead with "it must be someone who makes a big difference in book 3".

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Why would GRRM even mention this if he is such a minor character? I'm sure we all expect and know several minor characters won't be in the show, much less appearing in the show only to die before he's suppose to.

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Why would GRRM even mention this if he is such a minor character? I'm sure we all expect and know several minor characters won't be in the show, much less appearing in the show only to die before he's suppose to.

Why wouldn't he? His fans are debating ridiculous details like an ornamental hand on the Hand's chair so the misplaced death of a very minor character is certainly well within the boundaries of what fans care about. Nothing in the report indicates that he said it in a way that means that it's any sort of a big deal, it could just have been in passing when discussing that changes will be made.

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I think it's hoster tully. He hasn't a big part to play, after all, edmure is already the ruler of the riverlands. They would save money not casting him at all.

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I also think it's Hoster Tully. His death is important mainly because he tells us about Lysa in his dying days, and also because of his affect on Catelyn. The effect can still be there for Catelyn, and someone else can fill us in on Lysa (like Littlefinger).

Also, Dand and Dave mentioned that they won't be able to fit all of the new characters from A Clash of Kings, and on top of that, they still have to introduce the Tullys and some of Robb's bannermen that they omitted from the first book.

Here's a list of the new characters they'd have to introduce to be completely consistant with the books:

Edmure Tully

Blackfish

Hoster Tully

Roose Bolton and other Northern bannermen cut from the first season

Ramsey Snow/Reek

Jaqen H'ghar

Rorge

Biter

Vargo Hoat and other Brave Companions

The Tickler

Brienne Tarth

Lord Tarly and other lords loyal to Renly

Margery Tyrell

Big and little Walder Freys

Jojen Reed

Meera Reed

Wyman Manderly

Donella Manderly

Stannis Baratheon

Meilsandre

Davos Seaworth and his sons

Balon Greyjoy

Asha Greyjoy

Aeron Greyjoy

Victarion Greyjoy

Dolorous Edd Tollet

Qhorin Halfhand

Ygritte

Rattleshirt

Prolly five or more other Night's Watchmen who I don't feel like looking up

Pyat Pree

Xaro Xhoan Daxos

Quaithe

Strong Belwas

I'm sure I'm forgetting some, too. My point stands, they're clearly gonna have to make some cuts, and cutting Hoster Tully makes some sense to me.

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yes, now i'm pretty sure he's hoster

OT/I have a nerdream of summer glau casted as maergary tyrell *-*

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I don't view Hoster as a "very minor" character. To me a very minor character is someone who has little impact on the plot or little importance for the characters. Also, I still don't see the sense in killing him offscreen, the audience isn't going to care about a character they haven't met yet. If they don't want Hoster to be in the next season, then they could just change the backstory so that he died a couple years ago or something.

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While I hope it's Hoster (nothing against the old man, but he is fairly...um...moribund for his entire involvement in the books, so his dying in Season 1 will mean just about as much as him dying in Season 3), I have a bad feeling it will be Beric.

All of Hoster's "important" dialogue involves Catelyn and is about Lysa and "Tansy", which could easily fit into a 5-10 minute scene after Robb beats Jaime's army at the Whispering Wood and Riverrun is relieved from being sieged.

I regret, however, that they would choose to kill (and LEAVE dead) Beric. I understand that it says the person "dies in ASOS" but...he dies SO MANY times, that maybe they'll show Gregor killing him once in GoT Season 1 and then with the viewer believing he's dead, he could (I doubt it, though I'm hopeful) show up again, looking MUCH the worse for wear until his final "death" after doing his thing near the Twins.

I've read in posts above that they have casted Beric, do we know what that casting choice is yet? I had originally thought they'd just show Sansa watching his punitive expedition leave KL in search of Ser Gregor, and have someone (Jeyne Poole for example) remark on it to establish the existence of his character. Simple, cheap, wouldn't really have to cast anyone as they could just have his banners and a bunch of guys in armor from a distance. (Although I'm glad he's actually being cast...though somewhat less glad if he gets killed off for good in Season 1)

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While I hope it's Hoster (nothing against the old man, but he is fairly...um...moribund for his entire involvement in the books, so his dying in Season 1 will mean just about as much as him dying in Season 3), I have a bad feeling it will be Beric.

All of Hoster's "important" dialogue involves Catelyn and is about Lysa and "Tansy", which could easily fit into a 5-10 minute scene after Robb beats Jaime's army at the Whispering Wood and Riverrun is relieved from being sieged.

I regret, however, that they would choose to kill (and LEAVE dead) Beric. I understand that it says the person "dies in ASOS" but...he dies SO MANY times, that maybe they'll show Gregor killing him once in GoT Season 1 and then with the viewer believing he's dead, he could (I doubt it, though I'm hopeful) show up again, looking MUCH the worse for wear until his final "death" after doing his thing near the Twins.

Do you consider Beric to be a "very minor" character? I don't, which is why I have little fear that he's the one who will die. Plus, as I've said before, it makes little sense to kill him for good in the first season when they can defer that choice until later.

ETA--Also, here are Ran's own words: "I think I can say this: it's a VERY minor character. Karstark, Dondarrion, Lancel, etc. can be ruled out."

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Do you consider Beric to be a "very minor" character? I don't, which is why I have little fear that he's the one who will die. Plus, as I've said before, it makes little sense to kill him for good in the first season when they can defer that choice until later.

I agree with you that he is important (more so, in my opinion, than Hoster Tully at least with regards to the events that are transpiring at the time of the books) especially the things that have to do with R'hllor, Thoros, Stoneheart, BwB, etc etc etc.

However, I can understand (not agree with, but understand) how some would think he's not important (within the context of the FIRST book) as he is only mentioned say 4 or 5 times at the most, and has only one scene in which he features as a named, speaking character.

Basically, I think we agree that Beric shouldn't die in season 1...right?

EDIT: Just saw your edit and now I feel better...not sure how I missed that line before...awesome. VERY VERY minor, eh? Now I've got some thinking to do.

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I agree with you that he is important (more so, in my opinion, than Hoster Tully at least with regards to the events that are transpiring at the time of the books) especially the things that have to do with R'hllor, Thoros, Stoneheart, BwB, etc etc etc...Basically, I think we agree that Beric shouldn't die in season 1...right?

Yes, we both agree that Beric shouldn't die in Season 1 (at least not permanently). Not only because he's a fairly important character, but also because he's one of the few people fighting for the interests of the small folk. So he has thematic importance as well as plot importance.

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Yes, we both agree that Beric shouldn't die in Season 1 (at least not permanently). Not only because he's a fairly important character, but also because he's one of the few people fighting for the interests of the small folk. So he has thematic importance as well as plot importance.

But I am sure David and Dan thought that the same thematic importance could be filled by Thoros. I'm personally hoping that it is Beric's death. I can part with him, but there aren't too many other characters I can part with.

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But I am sure David and Dan thought that the same thematic importance could be filled by Thoros. I'm personally hoping that it is Beric's death. I can part with him, but there aren't too many other characters I can part with.

Maybe. But then they'd have to find a way to set up Thoros' ability to bring people back from the dead. Otherwise, Catelyn's resurrection will come from nowhere. Although they could decide not to include Un-Cat at all.

Also, as I've said several times before, it doesn't make sense to choose to kill Beric for good in Season 1 when they can defer that choice until later.

Finally, keep in mind that Ran believes we can rule out Hoster, Karstark, and Beric, so I don't know why people keep focusing on them.

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