[NO SPOILERS] EP101 Discussion

[Xenophon]

Actually that's really not true. The Dothraki range more than virtually any other culture on the planet, and they are constantly conquesting other groups, taking slaves, taking wives, etc. Why do you think Khal Drogo decided to take Dany as his queen anyway? It's not her Valyrian blood.

You're thinking that the Dothraki are isolated from the rest of the world. They're not. They're not like Native Americans in behavior - they're like the Mongols. And like the Mongols, you can find traces of Dothraki DNA from one end of the world to the other.

Mostly, why does it matter? If they can act reasonably well and do the parts, what does it matter what their ethnicity is? It's not like they made Khal Drogo a woman or something.

No, I understand your point and I do agree with the concept they they conquer and absorb other cultures... But I got the distinct feeling from Martin's descriptions of them that there is a central racial core that is distinctly separate from those they conquer and take as slaves...

I think Lazarus is right--the Dothraki are presented as more racial homogeneous in the books, even if that doesn't make much sense for the reasons given above. So I actually like that the show reenvisioned them a bit.

But I still think they did a half-assed job of it. If you're going to make the Dothraki a pseudo-Mongol horde, then you've got to explain that to the audience. Having a few white guys in the mix probably would have helped. As it is, the Dothraki are some weird melange of anything brownish.

As for why it matters, it clashes with the tone in the rest of the show. In the other parts of the show the characters are carefully cast to have family resemblances, and costumes that look "realistic". Then you have a bunch of vaguely-brown savages in crazy costumes. To me it looked straight out of a cheesy low-budget B-movie, and it's hardly surprising that a lot of reviewers criticized this.

[MindLikeWarp]

I think Lazarus is right--the Dothraki are presented as more racial homogeneous in the books, even if that doesn't make much sense for the reasons given above. So I actually like that the show reenvisioned them a bit.

But I still think they did a half-assed job of it. If you're going to make the Dothraki a pseudo-Mongol horde, then you've got to explain that to the audience. Having a few white guys in the mix probably would have helped. As it is, the Dothraki are some weird melange of anything brownish.

As for why it matters, it clashes with the tone in the rest of the show. In the other parts of the show the characters are carefully cast to have family resemblances, and costumes that look "realistic". Then you have a bunch of vaguely-brown savages in crazy costumes. To me it looked straight out of a cheesy low-budget B-movie, and it's hardly surprising that a lot of reviewers criticized this.

I agree.

[cybroleach]

:agree: She's totally an on the top type- it would be in keeping with the character, and that's really the only thing that bugged me (and only a little). But maybe there was some issue with the actress, I think she was pregnant at that time- so maybe this worked better for filming.

I dont get this push by so many fans here looking at her in book character

Jamie holds her against the wall to finger her, Jamie throws her against the sept statue, she describes Robert& Oswell on top of her with their chest hair in her face, Osney takes her against the wall, her only 'ontop' mention is pretending to be Robert with Lady M.

[Strick]

Cersei is a dominating bitch everywhere but in the bedroom. In bed is the only place she gets to be feminine and submissive - but only with certain men, of course...

[MindLikeWarp]

I dont get this push by so many fans here looking at her in book character

Jamie holds her against the wall to finger her, Jamie throws her against the sept statue, she describes Robert& Oswell on top of her with their chest hair in her face, Osney takes her against the wall, her only 'ontop' mention is pretending to be Robert with Lady M.

I agree.

[Datepalm]

mod:

several things:

a. This is the "NO BOOK SPOILERS" thread, so quoting the books at length, especially future events that aren't in the episode (even its hidden) rather defeats the point.

b. Not much point to posts that are nothing but "I agree" either.

c. HBO went there so we won't have to. Keep it tasteful with the sex talk.

/mod

[Trebla]

[mod] Let's try to keep it clean, guys [/mod]

[Lazarus]

...Dany is essentially being sold as a sex slave to suit a political purpose. There's nothing nice or pretty about it, and Martin having her "enjoy" her wedding night in the book is one of his biggest cop-outs..

Well that's true but only from Viserys' angle... He intends to use his sister any way he can to achieve his ends, and that includes using her as a whore...

But I don't think that applies at all to Kal Drogo... He wasn't buying breeding stock - He took her as his wife - The Kalisi... There was no political gain in it for him at all... Everything Martin wrote regarding the relationship between Dany and Drogo is nothing short of honest tenderness and respect... From that point of view, her blissful wedding night is completely believable... And I think that was what Martin was trying to convey - A true love relationship formed between Dany and Drogo that supercedes all the ugliness surrounding Viserys or the barbarity of the Dothraki culture...

[The Bastard King]

The credits were very cool, but they didn't feel like they belonged. Maybe that will change with later episodes.

The rest was all well and good, I suppose. It's quite strange though, watching this show after having read the novels. Everything just feels a little...off. I hope this dissonance will disappear as I watch more.

Yeah, I felt the exact same way about the feel of the show.

We already saw a good chunk of the scenes of the first episode in previews and clips so I'm more excited about the next episode.

[King in B-Town]

I think the fact that everyone's biggest complaint seems to be "too much doggy style" means it was a pretty successful adaptation.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The adaptation was very good, everything looked fantastic and the "feel" of it was spot on. But in my opinion the explicit scenes did more harm than good. Plus, as someone noted earlier, with how much material they have to try and pack into each episode, why spend so much time on the sex?

[Kalbear]

I remarked to my wife that the byline should have been "In the game of thrones you hit it doggiestyle or you die".

[chris.t.]

I remarked to my wife that the byline should have been "In the game of thrones you hit it doggiestyle or you die".

Not trying to give away spoilers here, but I'm fairly sure there are those that hit it doggie-style but still do die. So perhaps it should be, "You're going to die eventually, so you might as well hit it doggie-style."

[Kalbear]

It was a joke, son.

[aeu]

Everything Martin wrote regarding the relationship between Dany and Drogo is nothing short of honest tenderness and respect...

This is just not true. It is being explained in detail in the actual book spoilers thread.

[Dan489]

Hey I'm new to this, just a couple of quick questions:

-Benjen travels south to Winterfell, however I thought it was forbidden for members of the Night's Watch to leave the Wall like that.

-Who runs King's Landing while the entire royal family is in Winterfell?

[Kalbear]

-Benjen travels south to Winterfell, however I thought it was forbidden for members of the Night's Watch to leave the Wall like that.

If you're leaving on official business, it's allowed. They can't desert, but they can move around some as long as it's okay.

Who runs King's Landing while the entire royal family is in Winterfell?

The small council. You'll see more of them later.

[adamsputnik]

Hey I'm new to this, just a couple of quick questions:

-Benjen travels south to Winterfell, however I thought it was forbidden for members of the Night's Watch to leave the Wall like that.

-Who runs King's Landing while the entire royal family is in Winterfell?

- He does so in the book, so...presumably he either has permission or else as First Ranger he has privileges. Can't remember either way.

- The Small Council, one would think. Robert doesn't do a whole lot of ruling anyway.

[Holymoly]

I'll admit to being "slightly" underwhelmed by the first episode and think that the schedulers missed a trick by not programming a double length first episode in order to really hook newcomers to the series, although I admit that Bran being pushed out the window was a great climax. Also, in the UK I'm slightly bemused by Sky inserting a single commercial break at 20 minutes and then overrunning the hour by the length of that break. Why not just let it play uninterrupted?

I'm sure that viewing the recording again tonight will yield a little more as I was slightly hampered last night by a few people in the room with me talking almost all the way through. Well, at least until the first full frontal nudity scene that is. I have to say that HBO's decision to go with the sexual content of the books augers well for later on as it is integral to the understanding for much of what is due to transpire in later episodes. Hopefully they do not cave in to the inevitable backlash from some quarters and sanitize the "earthy" qualities of the books.

Successes of episode one for me were Bran, Tyrion and Catelyn. Disappointments, Sansa (too spoilt and not just naive) and Cersei (too easy to pity as an unloved, unwanted wife). Also the white walkers? Appearing in daylight and just having the standard horror flic signature of blue eyed, doll-like features?

I'm hoping the series picks up. I'm sure people who haven't read the books were knocked out but episode one didn't tick all the boxes for me in the way the LoTR films did.

So far? A solid B+.

[theMountainGoat]

If I can make one observation about this thread it is that anyone who has read the books should NOT post in this thread at all whatsoever.

Discussion about what has changed between book and TV is completely inappropriate in this thread and in my opinion there should be none of it here at all. People who are new to the series and only watching the show don't want to read that stuff and don't want to know.

There are several veiled hints about what might come up in future episodes/seasons. And worse some replies to the few genuine non-reader viewers we have saying "watch next week" in response to specific points which is only going to make the non-readers think about how their assumptions are wrong. In my opinion that is a spoiler.

I can understand the whole "I know what you don't know and I want to tell you you'll love it" mentality, but for those of us who have read the books the joy of the NO SPOILERS thread will be seeing the unspoiled reactions of new fans watching and enjoying the story for the first time. But the only way to maintain that is to keep things completely spoiler free which I feel this thread is not at this time.

Just my opinion on the subject but I hope others will do more to restrain themselves and take the discussion about book spoilers and differences to the appropriate threads where they belong. Thank you.

[Tywin's bastard]

If I can make one observation about this thread it is that anyone who has read the books should NOT post in this thread at all whatsoever.

Discussion about what has changed between book and TV is completely inappropriate in this thread and in my opinion there should be none of it here at all. People who are new to the series and only watching the show don't want to read that stuff and don't want to know.

There are several veiled hints about what might come up in future episodes/seasons. And worse some replies to the few genuine non-reader viewers we have saying "watch next week" in response to specific points which is only going to make the non-readers think about how their assumptions are wrong. In my opinion that is a spoiler.

I can understand the whole "I know what you don't know and I want to tell you you'll love it" mentality, but for those of us who have read the books the joy of the NO SPOILERS thread will be seeing the unspoiled reactions of new fans watching and enjoying the story for the first time. But the only way to maintain that is to keep things completely spoiler free which I feel this thread is not at this time.

Just my opinion on the subject but I hope others will do more to restrain themselves and take the discussion about book spoilers and differences to the appropriate threads where they belong. Thank you.

I disagree that people that have read the books shouldn't be posting in this thread. New viewers are sometimes asking questions that can only be answered by information in the book. For example I think it's fine to say why Benjen could come to Winterfell as that will likely not be explained in any detail.

I do, however, agree that things that will likely come up in the series, plus changes from book to show, has no place here. The former are of course spoilers for the show and the latter are spoilers for the book and it's not at all unlikely that someone will want to pick it up after they've watched this season.

For example, the top post on this page is a clear spoiler because we are not supposed to know that yet.