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Ran

[NO SPOILERS] EP101 Discussion

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I have been a member for a while but have not posted much. I wanted to say I thought they did a good job with episode 1. I know that people usually love or absolutely hate shows that are book conversions. A lot of people forget that there is quite a difference between reading a book and reading a script. I thought the episode did not change any major themes of the book. I am a little baffled that sex seems to be the focus for a lot of people. To me the sex seemed incidental and only served to reinforce time period. We are looking at a world equivalent to our own middle ages.

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I thought Momoa sounded more like a Pacific Islander than either an Arab or a Klingon. Every time I hear him speak Dothraki, I think it is the prelude to a Haka.

With Eddard and Catelyn being aged up, I think the decision to omit their nude scene wasn't a bad one. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Ms. Fairley has a no-nudity clause in her contract.

Theon and Viserys comparison - very mild spoiler

With the interviews I've seen so far, the one casting 'change' I would make would be to have Harry Lloyd play Theon. Harry's devotion to the series is clear and Theon is a bigger role down the road.

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Really, why is this thread all just about the sexytime? Is that the only thing worth commenting on?? Although I wouldn't complain if someone were to upload to YouTube the shirtless-getting-shaved-in-Winterfell scene :)

I really enjoyed the show quite a lot and thought it was very well done and moved amazingly (sometimes head-hurtingly) fast. I've never been a big fan of the whole Dany plotline, and the Dothraki-as-random-brown-savages was a little disturbing, but I have to say that my favorite character from last night was Jorah Mormont. Even without much to do, he made a great impression. Also great to see was Benjen, who looked very much like a Stark to me. With so much focus on the major roles, it is nice to see some of the ancillary-but-still-important characters get fleshed out.

And yes, the credits are very fun!

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In general I want to say i am pleased with the casting and the execution of the story - Just a few details that annoy me - Some greatly... With respect to this observation...

...the Dothraki-as-random-brown-savages was a little disturbing, but I have to say that my favorite character from last night was Jorah Mormont. Even without much to do, he made a great impression. Also great to see was Benjen, who looked very much like a Stark to me. With so much focus on the major roles, it is nice to see some of the ancillary-but-still-important characters get fleshed out.

And yes, the credits are very fun!

I was very disappointed with how they display the Dothraki - HBO is showing its obsession with modern cultural diversity... The Dothraki should be for the most part racially contiguous... Their physical decription in the book leaves nothing to play with on this one... HBO portrays them as the cast to a high school production of "Fame"... They are the Dothraki, not an LA Street gang... Please God, don't let Kal Drogo start rapping...

Additionally, I'm having some serious doubts about the choice for Drogo's actor and the way he is portrayed... In the book he was extremely gentle and thoughtful with Dany - The book protrays him as a true warrior king even if his nation is somewhat barbaric... I think HBO has failed on this point...

Benjen Stark was perfect! He had enough facial similarities with Ned to clearly make them brothers...

I saw a preview clip of Lisa Arryn - Total failure of HBO's part - For crissakes how could they get this so wrong?

The credits/intro was fascinating but it made me laugh because it defeated the purpose of the credits - No one was watching the credits - We were all fascinated by the moving models... HA!

I will say this - My two favorite characters in the entire story are Tyrion and Arya and I think they got precisely the right casting fit for those two characters - Tyrion probably could have used a bit more on the cosmetic makeup, but the actor is doing a fine job... And Arya is precisely the way I envisioned her...

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I understand why the Dothraki did it that way, because I've read the books (it's explained how they have sex and why)... No missionary is not new, just the name missionary is new. Sexually, there's probably nothing new under the sun.

Anyway, let's not thread jack this discussion about what sexual positions were common in a fantasy world. :P

:agree: She's totally an on the top type- it would be in keeping with the character, and that's really the only thing that bugged me (and only a little). But maybe there was some issue with the actress, I think she was pregnant at that time- so maybe this worked better for filming.

OK you're right. Those are my own preconceived notions. I see doggy as more animalistic, more primitive. Like it was the first sex position. :) So the farther something goes back in history, the more I think the percentage of doggy going on was higher.

"On top type"? What makes you think that? I didn't get that.

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5. He thought there was a tad too much dog style sex (3 scenes), and I kind of agree but understand why the Dothraki do it that way. My problem is mainly with the last "things I do for love" scene- it would have been more in keeping with her character if she had been on top.

I think that this scene was one of the ones they kept from the pilot? Maybe not? If so, Lena Headey was very pregnant at the time and perhaps they showed her doggy style to hide her belly.

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In regard to the opening title. What is that spinning thing called? Is there a name for it? I loved how it switched from:

Dragon dominating.

Stag, Lion, Direwolf (and probably others, Bear, etc) attacking Dragon.

Stag Reigning. Lion nearby, Wolf and Bear off to the side.

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In general I want to say i am pleased with the casting and the execution of the story - Just a few details that annoy me - Some greatly... With respect to this observation...I was very disappointed with how they display the Dothraki - HBO is showing its obsession with modern cultural diversity... The Dothraki should be for the most part racially contiguous... Their physical decription in the book leaves nothing to play with on this one... HBO portrays them as the cast to a high school production of "Fame"... They are the Dothraki, not an LA Street gang... Please God, don't let Kal Drogo start rapping...

How do you expect them to find about 100 racially contiguous non-white extras on Malta or in Northern Ireland?

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I think that this scene was one of the ones they kept from the pilot? Maybe not? If so, Lena Headey was very pregnant at the time and perhaps they showed her doggy style to hide her belly.

Yeah, I figured it had to do with her pregnancy... It just seemed- off, considering the character. But really, the sex doesn't bother me- only if it takes away from the show or character.

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How do you expect them to find about 100 racially contiguous non-white extras on Malta or in Northern Ireland?

I didn't know they were required to use only local talent... My analogy to a high school play was intended to be light humorous sarcasm - Maybe I wasn't as far off the mark as I thought... I always expected HBO to have the budget to actually pull off such a story with reasonable accuracy... Let's hope their next project isn't a remake of the film "Zulu" - Filmed in Japan... Otherwise we're going to be a tad disappointed, I think...:D

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I find it rather funny that this thread is stuck on the sex scenes... But I admit I have issues with it myself... I gree with this:Even though the scene with Cat/Ned in the bedroom did in fact describer her as getting out of bed in front of Lewin with no clothes on, it doesn't serve any purpose for the film...

With Ceirce/Jaime you have to show the incestuous relationship and show it in a way that it is obvious this has been going on for a long time - The plot demands it...

One thing i am a little peeved about, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I con't recall Tyrion running immediately to sample the whores or Winterfell before he went to the castle... If I'm wrong, do correct me, but it just cheapened the film for me - In this respect HBO seems to be staffed with lonely adolescents who are ruled by their hormones... Yes we all know about sex and we all think its a wonderful thing - Thank you, God, for the sex - But for crissakes to insert it (no pun intended) in the story when its not necessary?

As to the doggie position controversy - With the Dothraki, I think Martin made it clear that was theur way - Maybe we should say it was the Horsey position - And Dany introduced Drogo to some other more intimate arrangements... As to Ceirce/Jaime, again correct me if I'm wrong, the book decribes them as Jaime being behind her but i alwats got the impression they were standing - Admittedly not a position that is easy for all men, but Jaime is known for his swordmanship, is he not?

Little things like this were obvious in the book - Why the directors decided to change them for the film I cannot begin to speculate on... Sometimes I wonder if they really read the book or read the Cliff Notes...

My thoughts are very much in line with his. I've read GoT three times now, and I don't remember the Tyrion/Jaime/whores scene at all. It worked well, and it goes a long way to showing Jaime's "human side", but I'm pretty sure it was added just for the series.

I disagree with a previous poster who implied that the missionary position was uncommon back then. GRRM made it a point in the book for someone to explain to Dany that the Dothraki "take their women" from behind, as if this were not the norm (at least in Westeros).

Jaime and Cersei were standing in their sex scene in the book. Cersei was pressed up against the wall and she was the first to see Bran. I think it was probably changed in the film for both reasons already offered - to hide her pregnancy and for the shock/surprise factor when we finally do see her face.

Overall I really liked the HBO version. I thought the casting was good and the production was excellent. I thought the acting was only so-so, to tell the truth, particularly Jon Snow and Viserys Targaryen. I have no problem with the sex/nudity so long as it's important to the story (and those new fans who do take offense need to realize they don't know the story, yet). A couple of things I didn't like/understand:

In the opening scene, the bodies that Will found weren't cut up in the book. I imagine that would make it difficult for them to come back to life and hunt the living, no? And I don't understand the significance (if any) of the pattern the body parts were arranged in. Perhaps it will be made clear later on.

I don't like the way Drogo forced himself on Dany on their wedding night. The book described it as more of a seduction - he was surprisingly gentle with her and she wanted him at the end.

Cersei is not evil enough. I'm sure we'll see more evil in the future, but, for example, in the book, killing Bran was clearly her idea. In the movie, I didn't get that impression.

I thought it would have been very difficult to understand much of what was happening without having read the books. I watched this with my wife and I spent half of my time explaining things and answering questions (while trying not to give too much away)...

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The Dothraki should be for the most part racially contiguous
Actually that's really not true. The Dothraki range more than virtually any other culture on the planet, and they are constantly conquesting other groups, taking slaves, taking wives, etc. Why do you think Khal Drogo decided to take Dany as his queen anyway? It's not her Valyrian blood.

You're thinking that the Dothraki are isolated from the rest of the world. They're not. They're not like Native Americans in behavior - they're like the Mongols. And like the Mongols, you can find traces of Dothraki DNA from one end of the world to the other.

Mostly, why does it matter? If they can act reasonably well and do the parts, what does it matter what their ethnicity is? It's not like they made Khal Drogo a woman or something.

I've read GoT three times now, and I don't remember the Tyrion/Jaime/whores scene at all. It worked well, and it goes a long way to showing Jaime's "human side", but I'm pretty sure it was added just for the series.

It was added for the series and to showcase the Jaime/Tyrion relationship a bit earlier.

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...I disagree with a previous poster who implied that the missionary position was uncommon back then. GRRM made it a point in the book for someone to explain to Dany that the Dothraki "take their women" from behind, as if this were not the norm (at least in Westeros).

Excellent point... Good attention to detail...

...I thought the acting was only so-so, to tell the truth, particularly Jon Snow and Viserys Targaryen.
Agreed on the point of Viserys - In the book he was incredibly cruel to Dany... The scene where he undresses her in the film was not really in character with him - He looks like he's lusting for her... In the book he would have twisted her nipple to dominate her will... In the book he was a despicable little shit - In the film he's almost forgetable... I fear i am not going to enjoy the Dothraki side of HBO's presentation...

I don't like the way Drogo forced himself on Dany on their wedding night. The book described it as more of a seduction - he was surprisingly gentle with her and she wanted him at the end.
Again, correct... Drogo was very much the noble warrior king, and he treated Dany with extreme gentleness and was highly protective of her - He was also thoughtful enough to let her show him alternative ways of lovemaking different from the Dothraki culture... I think the Martin's Drogo is more sophisticated and intelligent than HBO gives him credit for...

Cersei is not evil enough. I'm sure we'll see more evil in the future, but, for example, in the book, killing Bran was clearly her idea. In the movie, I didn't get that impression.
Boy you got that right... When I saw the pre-film photos of the cast I thought the actress was a good pic for Cercei, but I was a tad bit disappointed with the execution of her character in the film...

Did anyone else have a problem with the scene in the crypts? All the candles and torches - All this time I thought it was a dark, dank, disturbing sort of place - Man was I wrong - Why the crypts of Winterfell are bright and cheery - A virtual party atmosphere...:D

I would have liked it much better if Robert and Ned had gone thru the dark with torches in their hands, with the shadows playing off the spooky images of long dead masters of Winterfell looking thru dead stone eyes...

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also, those who are new to the forums and Game of Thrones, welcome. :)

From someone whose read the books a few times,I will say that more sex scenes were in the first episode than in the beginning of the actual book. HOWEVER, the sex scenes in the book are VERY graphic and detailed, bordering on erotic literature, so I think the trade off makes sense there.

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Actually that's really not true. The Dothraki range more than virtually any other culture on the planet, and they are constantly conquesting other groups, taking slaves, taking wives, etc. Why do you think Khal Drogo decided to take Dany as his queen anyway? It's not her Valyrian blood.

You're thinking that the Dothraki are isolated from the rest of the world...

No, I understand your point and I do agree with the concept they they conquer and absorb other cultures... But I got the distinct feeling from Martin's descriptions of them that there is a central racial core that is distinctly separate from those they conquer and take as slaves...

But we have what we have with the film and I suppose some of us will have to use a bit more imagination... I just expected the filmmakers to put a little more effort into it than they did on this front... As one other poster implied, maybe it they used the people who were close at hand - Budgets being what they are...

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From someone whose read the books a few times,I will say that more sex scenes were in the first episode than in the beginning of the actual book. HOWEVER, the sex scenes in the book are VERY graphic and detailed, bordering on erotic literature, so I think the trade off makes sense there.

Double Edit: quoted the wrong person, made correction, then lost post, which I reposted above; sorry for any confusion.

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My thoughts are very much in line with his. I've read GoT three times now, and I don't remember the Tyrion/Jaime/whores scene at all. It worked well, and it goes a long way to showing Jaime's "human side", but I'm pretty sure it was added just for the series.

I think the new Tyrion introduction scene served three purposes:

1. In the book, Tyrion is introduced in the same scene where Jon and Benjen discuss Jon's desire to take the black. By introducing Tyrion earlier, it makes the Jon scene more about Jon and his motivations without getting sidetracked with also introducing Tyrion. Tyrion shows up in the scene because it's the start of the Tyrion-Jon relationship, but the scene in the show stays focused on Jon.

2. The brothel scene establishes Jaime and Tyrion's relationship pretty well, something that's done in the books more through internal dialogue.

3. The slurping sounds as Tyrion is drinking his ale, then continuing after he stops is just funny as hell.

I don't like the way Drogo forced himself on Dany on their wedding night. The book described it as more of a seduction - he was surprisingly gentle with her and she wanted him at the end.

We'll see if it backs back that the end of that scene was a fake-out or not. But I think the show has is more right. Dany is essentially being sold as a sex slave to suit a political purpose. There's nothing nice or pretty about it, and Martin having her "enjoy" her wedding night in the book is one of his biggest cop-outs. I'm sure a lot of viewers were expecting Dany to be rescued or to talk her way out the situation. That she didn't showed just how brutal and different this "fantasy" world is.

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