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Ran

[BOOK SPOILERS] EP101 Discussion

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Re: MindlikeWarp

I never got the impression from the books that the Dothraki are anything other than the typical conquering horde, a la the Mongols. I never got the impression that they are soft in any way. Certainly, Drogo would be no stranger to taking any conquered women he wanted. That he didn't outright rape his wife (but is there a reasonable doubt that he would not have if Daenerys had continued to resist?) does not make his culture any less savage. YMMV.

Re: Spionkop

My thought on this, as well. Cercei was trying to make herself look good by white-washing her own plans after the fact. What Jaimie did was the right thing to do, for a couple who's cheating on the King and committing incest. If Cercei really had thought that she could have scared Bran into keeping his silence forever then she's even more stupid that I thought.

But he didn't conquer Dany. Conquered women? Probably. The Westerosi armies would rape women they conquered as well, but they wouldn't outright rape their wives. I think not outright raping his wife did make him and his culture less savage than they initially seemed. It showed there is some respect for some women, same as in Westeros. Wives, noble women? (though Lollys would beg to differ). Smallfolk would probably be raped by a conquering Westerosi army.

There is reasonable doubt as to whether he would've forced himself if she continued to resist, but he didn't do it after the initial resistance, so I'm going with he wouldn't have. That's how I took it from the book anyway.

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I don't really get the credits. They're very pretty, but i'm not sure what they're trying to get at with the - rather un-medieval - gears. Cashing in on the steampunk craze?

I think your a bit off base. The title sequence with the different geared places/cities going up, was meant to illustrate the political machinations that are going on at all levels within the society of the 7 Kingdoms of Westeros.

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Another little minor annoyance was the enormous amount of cloth they piled around the neck to Maester Luwin's robe. I always pictures the maesters as wearing a simple gray robe, much like the one we see Petyr wearing in the clips we have seen of Littlefinger. How can people see a maester's chain under all that cloth?!

To me it looked like the chain was really long and went down to around his waist, with large links. Not tight around the neck at all.

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I think that's doing Cersei a fairly big disservice. I doubt she cares at all whether Bran dies, but she certainly could have scared Bran (especially at 7, and especially being the queen of the realm). She says this because she's likely done similar things before. She was scared - but she didn't want Jaime to do that. She wanted Jaime to do...something.

One of the things I like AFFC least for is the stupidfying of Cersei. I still believe that she didn't get this idiotic until AFFC, and before this she was at least partially competent if not super clever.

I agree with you. She thought there was another way and killing Bran was certainly not a flawless way out. Jaime acted without thinking it through, like he always does.

And I also think you are correct in that Cersei gets increasingly paranoid and confused as things go against her. AFFC does a great job of showing someone going down a spiral of madness for fear for her children and so on and there's no reason to believe that spiral hasn't gone on previously. I think the people saying that she's stupid has a pretty simple way of looking at that character.

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One of the things I like AFFC least for is the stupidfying of Cersei. I still believe that she didn't get this idiotic until AFFC, and before this she was at least partially competent if not super clever.

I think an argument could be made that it wasn't until AFFC that she really began her decline because she no longer had anyone to rely on. Her father dead, her son who she saw herself in dead, her glorious brother maimed and disinterested in her, her less glorious brother on the loose and gunning for her (or so she believes), even her steadfast uncle tells her to piss off. She has lost pretty much every support block she's ever had and is now revealing the spoiled, arrogant, paranoid, stupidly short-sighted woman beneath it all.

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I didn't really notice the chains, but my boyfriend said that it looked like there were only five large links - he thought that each maester was supposed to have a fairly significant number of links, so that making just five of them so large was kind of unrealistic.

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think an argument could be made that it wasn't until AFFC that she really began her decline because she no longer had anyone to rely on. Her father dead, her son who she saw herself in dead, her glorious brother maimed and disinterested in her, her less glorious brother on the loose and gunning for her (or so she believes), even her steadfast uncle tells her to piss off. She has lost pretty much every support block she's ever had and is now revealing the spoiled, arrogant, paranoid, stupidly short-sighted woman beneath it all.
I still think that the primary impetus was Joffrey's death for her paranoia - but to be fair, she gets a whole lot of shit handed to her very, very fast. Joff's death, Tyrion's guilt, Jaime's coming back without a hand and then being all weird, Tywin's death at the hands of Tyrion - she loses a lot very quickly.

I'm not saying she's this devious mastermind, but calling her stupid and shortsighted rings to me more of misogyny than it does an accurate telling of her character.

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I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the shot in Ned's chambers, where the camera focuses on Ned while Catelyn and Luwyn are arguing behind him about whether or not he should go to King's Landing, framed in such a way that they were quite literally the angel and the devil on the shoulder. Of course, this being not about good and evil, you're not really supposed to be sure which is the angel and which is the devil, or if that description at all applies. I thought it was a fantastic, wonderful quiet little shot.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I thought it was total cheese ball.

One scene that was done kinda cheesy was the Ned/Cat/Luewin scene. Cat over one shoulder saying 'don't go'. Luewin over the other shoulder saying 'do go'. Almost a literal angle/devil on the shoulder scene, much like the literal standing at the cross roads in Castaway.

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I'm not saying she's this devious mastermind, but calling her stupid and shortsighted rings to me more of misogyny than it does an accurate telling of her character.

I disagree. I think she's been able to maneuver in the game previously with an unparalleled confidence because she knew if she failed her father would save her or her brother would kill anyone in her way. And for the most part they did. How much of her mess did Tywin clean up while he was Hand?

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I'm going to watch it again tonight, probably twice (kept getting interrupted last night dealing with family issues)--when Ned and Robert are down in the catacombs, did we get the long shot of the endless rows of dead Stark lords with their Direwolves at their feet? If so, I totally missed it. LOVED that mental image from the book. I'm hoping we got that shot in the HBO version and that I just missed it the first time around. Anybody?

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[mod] I am going to close this thread in TWO MINUTES. That will give anyone time to finish their thoughts. After that, please head over to the new thread, Mark II (we close threads after a certain post length to make it easier to back up the database). Thank you. [/mod]

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I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the shot in Ned's chambers, where the camera focuses on Ned while Catelyn and Luwyn are arguing behind him about whether or not he should go to King's Landing, framed in such a way that they were quite literally the angel and the devil on the shoulder. Of course, this being not about good and evil, you're not really supposed to be sure which is the angel and which is the devil, or if that description at all applies. I thought it was a fantastic, wonderful quiet little shot.

This is the kind of post I was hoping to see more of in this thread. Little tidbits of things that I missed the first time, that I can watch out for tonight when I do a rewatch. Good stuff.

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This is the kind of post I was hoping to see more of in this thread. Little tidbits of things that I missed the first time, that I can watch out for tonight when I do a rewatch. Good stuff.

Indeed. That, and the Unsullied, are things I will be looking out for on re-view. :)

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