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[BOOK SPOILERS] EP101 Discussion

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Thought the scene between Jon and tyrion was rushed.

If I was to pick the biggest gripe that I did have, it's probably this. Being as I am a huge nerd I was re-reading the parts from this episode a couple of hours before it aired and I remembered just how great that little encounter is. In the book Tyrion comes across as more kindly than he did in the show, I think. I wonder if that will affect how the character is perceived.

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What I did not like:

1 (and only) "And which one of you was a marksman at age ten... other than my daughter who is age nine." Seriously- I know they have to make Arya into a tom-girl who can kill, etc, but ... no really, she does not train and if she does its in secret, etc, but she can nail a bulls-eye first try. Its called ham-handed and it showed.

Arya is older than Bran, in both the books and the series.

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Arya! Arya is going to be a rockstar.

This was so good. My only complaints are but quibbles. So well-casted and so well acted.

A serious question: How much money could the actor playing Joffrey get for selling people the opportunity to punch him in the face? Maybe with boxing gloves, but still. I think people would pay good money to slug that fucker.

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Overall it was pretty good. "the things i do for love" seemed a little rushed imo. did anyone else think there was more nudity than necessary?

For this series? And for HBO? Ever see Rome or Deadwood? Or True Blood?

They actually left out some of the more gratuitous nudity from the novels - Ned and Catelyn are post-coital and naked when Maester Luwin brings Lysa's letter - and Ned even chided Catelyn for emerging from the bed to walk to Luwin while naked. Additionally, Jaime and Cersei were clothed in this episode, when Bran actually saw them in flagrante delicto, totally stark (heh) naked.

The part where Viserys feels up his sister was in the book, as was the fornicating at the Dothraki wedding.

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I liked it. But I kept on wondering whether non-readers would get into it, and I realized I'm completely unable to judge. Guess we'll have a better idea as reviews hit over the next couple days.

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A serious question: How much money could the actor playing Joffrey get for selling people the opportunity to punch him in the face? Maybe with boxing gloves, but still. I think people would pay good money to slug that fucker.

amen to that.

perfectly cast

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Sword, Balefont, good to see you, too! And good to see Trebla, Xray, Sergio, Ormond, and Mack. Vico was indeed reading over my shoulder, and he says hello. biggrin.gif

Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that the actress who plays Sansa looks too old to be 13. I seem to be around a lot of 13 year olds lately (one of them my own) and Sansa would fit in nicely.

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How is it ham handed if Arya is a marksman anyway? She takes after Lyanna and Lyanna was the Laughing Knight.

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I am probably in the minority here but this is what I really liked:

I thought The Rock that Roared had a perfect summary, I had similar feelings about all the points he mentioned. It wasn't perfection (that's an unrealistic standard) but I'm still looking forward to seeing the rest of the series.

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Am I the only one who took one look at Viserys & thought 'I bet there are some Malfoys in the Targaryen family tree?' :lol:

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I am probably in the minority here but this is what I really liked:

1. The pace. I really, really enjoyed the break-neck speed of the show. The books are dense (I mean that in the most positive sense of the word) and they cover a lot in just a few pages. The books threw a lot at us in a really fast pace, we just didn't realize it because we READ at our own paces; the show MOVES at its own pace, so it seems faster. This was one episode and it grabbed us by the end of the first episode probably in the same place where the books grabbed us: with a valiant knight throwing a child off a roof.

2. Viserys: I want to point out that every actor NAILED their character or played the character with enough skill to draw that character into a new place. However, no character actually improved in scope than Viserys. In the books, in the first few chapters, Viserys is, in effect, a weasley nutzoid- crazy, stupid, impetuous, sniveling and arrogant. The show's Viserys - instead of keeping those character traits disparate and apart (pulling each one out as needed)- drew every one of those character traits inward into a single point: Viserys Targaryen is a maniac. He is crazy, he acts crazy, he draws all around him inward into his maniacal thoughts; he is hurtful and dangerous and decidedly unrealistic, arrogant and sniveling etc etc etc. But in every scene, the actor polishes is all together and hones it into the maniac, Viserys III.

3. The Ambition: No story line was cut down or shortened in order to make room for the other. The books nailed EVERY important point as needed with only slight alterations. The fact that the book could fit all that in in such a small space is a worthy accomplishment.

4. Smiling Ned: Am I the only one who liked that Ned Stark actually smiled in the show?

What I am on the Fence on:

1. No. The scene where Dany is bedded by Drago, in the books, is very slow and very very very touching. Drogo sheds the horse-lord-savage-skin and instead shows a "softer" side; he is actually tender to Dany and shows that he is capable of loving her. In the show, the actress is clearly terrified of Drogo and is "fucked" while terrified. This worked in one sense (she's a scared child who is a thing not a person to all involved and she is truly alone), but failed in another: that her and Drogo actually had a relationship.

2. The Things I Do for Love: The most important scene in the show almost failed for me. For starters, in the book, Jaime saves Bran before he tries to kill him (showing Jaime's duality). But moreso, Jaime treats this cavalierly even for Jaime Lannister. In retrospect, Jaime always stated that he knew what was at stake when he pushed Bran from the window; in the show, Jaime treats it as nothing more than a nuisance. Now, Jaime IS that arrogant, but in the books- I always got the sense that Jaime knew how horrible this was and knew what was going to happen- and did it anyway. In the show ... he didn't even look at Bran.

3. Sansa: Age 15. Sansa Stark, in the books, is 11; on the show she's 13; the actress playing Sansa is clearly 15. The actress playing Sansa looks much, much older than the 11 year ofl I have in my mind's eye, and given Sansa's dialog, her position in the books, and her reputation (wrongly achieved IMHO) on these boards makes what she is saying sound far far far more petulant and childish than if they came from an 11 year old- in which case they would appear age-appropriate. This can go either way, but so far- she sounds as bad on the show as others have said in the books.

What I did not like:

1 (and only) "And which one of you was a marksman at age ten... other than my daughter who is age nine." Seriously- I know they have to make Arya into a tom-girl who can kill, etc, but ... no really, she does not train and if she does its in secret, etc, but she can nail a bulls-eye first try. Its called ham-handed and it showed.

I was going to post something. But then you said it for me.

I can't believe there hasn't been more angst here about Drogo raping Dany. How can she possibly have the kind of relationship she has with him in the books if he starts out by raping her? For chrissake. The only reason I bought in to Dany buying into the Dothraki stuff was because Drogo was her Sun and Stars. She loved him passionately, and he loved her back. I can't fathom that relationship being started by him savagely raping her. Him basically waiting until she gave him permission was the reason that relationship made sense. Without it... I don't get it at all.

I also don't get why they changed Bran falling and Jamie catching him. It reduced the shock when he fell. It seemed unnecessary and all things equal, leave it the same if it doesn't make things better.

Regarding whether Sansa was "hot" enough... well, she looked attractive in some shots and not in others. It was weird.

Also, I had no problem with Dany/Viserys's wigs. I didn't even notice them.

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2. Viserys: I want to point out that every actor NAILED their character or played the character with enough skill to draw that character into a new place. However, no character actually improved in scope than Viserys. In the books, in the first few chapters, Viserys is, in effect, a weasley nutzoid- crazy, stupid, impetuous, sniveling and arrogant. The show's Viserys - instead of keeping those character traits disparate and apart (pulling each one out as needed)- drew every one of those character traits inward into a single point: Viserys Targaryen is a maniac. He is crazy, he acts crazy, he draws all around him inward into his maniacal thoughts; he is hurtful and dangerous and decidedly unrealistic, arrogant and sniveling etc etc etc. But in every scene, the actor polishes is all together and hones it into the maniac, Viserys III.

Sort of agree here. The actor did a good job with the character. However I'm expecting the writers to move Viserys toward a half batshit-insane character.

2. The Things I Do for Love: The most important scene in the show almost failed for me. For starters, in the book, Jaime saves Bran before he tries to kill him (showing Jaime's duality). But moreso, Jaime treats this cavalierly even for Jaime Lannister. In retrospect, Jaime always stated that he knew what was at stake when he pushed Bran from the window; in the show, Jaime treats it as nothing more than a nuisance. Now, Jaime IS that arrogant, but in the books- I always got the sense that Jaime knew how horrible this was and knew what was going to happen- and did it anyway. In the show ... he didn't even look at Bran.

Yeah it came off like Cersei was asking him to do it, which is not true. Saving Bran, sighing, 'the things I do for love,' tossing him.. that's how I've always pictured it. But it's not the end of the world.

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We're GRRM fans - we're well practiced at waiting. ;)

lol. Nice.

I was thoroughly impressed at how much they were able to fit into one episode. There was a point where I thought for sure they couldn't fit Dany's wedding into this hour, and then I was surprised at how much they actually showed.

So at this early stage I was most impressed by Emelia Clarke. She didn't have many lines, but she conveyed the brutalized, abused sister perfectly with little more than the movement of her eyes. She is going to be a star.

I also loved the Ned/Robert scenes. They totally captured the essence of that relationship - "brothers" who hardly know each other as men, but still have an instinctive trust and respect for each other.

Jaime was probably the biggest surprise of the show. He captured the essence of that arrogance perfectly.

Anyway, I was thoroughly engrossed in an episode that was nothing but exposition other than the first 5 minutes and the last 60 seconds, so that bodes pretty well for the long run.

Nice to see some old names in this thread!

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FFS, the Drogo raping Dany vs. the tenderness to willingness shown in the books makes total sense for the series on screen because it provides for a deeper character arc for both Dany and Drogo. It's pretty fucking simple.

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I am probably in the minority here but this is what I really liked:

What I am on the Fence on:

What I did not like:

Rockroi, my friend.

Word.

You nailed these points, and I concur. Tomorrow, when I am less harried, I will discuss why Drogo and Dany's wedding scene is, I think, going to be problematic for this show and her character.

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Wonderful, amazing, great stuff!

A few quibbles, of course. I'm sure we all have a couple!

1. The things I do for love. Good, but not QUITE right. The way he said it so fast, you almost missed it.

2. Sansa. I think the problem for me was with her hair. The way it was styled made her head look odd, especially the braids she had when the Lannisters first arrived at Winterfell. Kinda ruined the look for me. She did come off just as bratty as in the books.

3. Tyrion. I'm not a fan of his, but these scenes seemed pretty hit-you-in-the-head. We get it. He drinks and whores. Maybe lengthening that scene with Jon would have helped.

4. Dany rape scene. Kinda changes the whole dynamic of her relationship with Drogo. I mean, she makes a deal with the devil when he dies because she loved him, if he's just a savage rapist that doesn't really come through.

Can't wait until next week!!

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Am I the only one who took one look at Viserys & thought 'I bet there are some Malfoys in the Targaryen family tree?' :lol:

If anybody in this episode gave me a Malfoy vibe it was Joffrey Lannister.

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Am I the only one who took one look at Viserys & thought 'I bet there are some Malfoys in the Targaryen family tree?' :lol:

My friend (who has never read the books) dubbed him Malfoy immediately.

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A serious question: How much money could the actor playing Joffrey get for selling people the opportunity to punch him in the face? Maybe with boxing gloves, but still. I think people would pay good money to slug that fucker.

:lol: There's a Chicago sports talkshow called Boers and Bernstein and they talk about some people having "Punch-them-in-the-face face". They say NFL quarterbacks Jimmy Clausen and Jay Cutler have it. You just want to punch them in the face. Joffrey would top the list!

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FFS, the Drogo raping Dany vs. the tenderness to willingness shown in the books makes total sense for the series on screen because it provides for a deeper character arc for both Dany and Drogo. It's pretty fucking simple.

I disagree. It makes Drogo very one dimensional and Dany a Stockholm syndrome victim. Assuming the rest goes along with the book. Perhaps they are re-doing the entire relationship, in which case I will rescind my displeasure, but for now, no I don't think it improved either character arc.

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