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MercurialCannibal

[BOOK SPOILERS] The Book Was Better

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I don't really care about whatever agendas people have with this issue. I just thought she looked too much older than her husband, given that it doesn't seem like she's too much older in the book, if at all. If you're offended by that for whatever reason, be offended, but I try to limit my own feminist outrage to issues that actually implicate sexism, just so we don't look too stupid to the non-believers out there.

If she looks too old, then she should have been played by a different, younger actress. And Ned should have been played by a younger actor, too. They are both technically too old. It's the judging the woman by a different standard than the man that gets me. If Cat's too old, Ned's too old. Simple.

The books don't count too much here because they are both much older. The timelines have clearly been stretched. Ned and Cat are about 35 in the books, but probably 10 years older in the TV series.

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If she looks too old, then she should have been played by a different, younger actress. And Ned should have been played by a younger actor, too. They are both technically too old. It's the judging the woman by a different standard than the man that gets me. If Cat's too old, Ned's too old. Simple.

The books don't count too much here because they are both much older. The timelines have clearly been stretched. Ned and Cat are about 35 in the books, but probably 10 years older in the TV series.

It's clear Cat is way too old in the show because during her chapters, she hints that's she's still young enough to have another child. So she can't be anymore than 40 and this tv Cat is like 49.9999

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It's clear Cat is way too old in the show because during her chapters, she hints that's she's still young enough to have another child. So she can't be anymore than 40 and this tv Cat is like 49.9999

Uh huh. That's a difference in the TV and book versions. Sean Bean (51) can't pass as Ned Stark (about 35) either.

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If she looks too old, then she should have been played by a different, younger actress. And Ned should have been played by a younger actor, too. They are both technically too old. It's the judging the woman by a different standard than the man that gets me. If Cat's too old, Ned's too old. Simple.

The books don't count too much here because they are both much older. The timelines have clearly been stretched. Ned and Cat are about 35 in the books, but probably 10 years older in the TV series.

I don't care if they aged up the Stark parents to their 60's...the actress playing Catelyn, regardless of her actual age looks too much older than Eddard regardless of Sean Bean's actual age. It has nothing to do with sexism or ageism. It's the freaking way she looks. Good God. You may not agree. That's fine. But for some of us, we simply do not like it. If they had found a 55 year old woman who looked younger than Sean Bean, that would have been fine too. That's it.

Everyone has something. I read on one of the review threads in here that someone felt Emilia Clarke was too chubby to play Dany. Personally, I find that crazy.

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Everyone has something. I read on one of the review threads in here that someone felt Emilia Clarke was too chubby to play Dany. Personally, I find that crazy.

I think she's perfect actually...people seem to forget that people didn't have Bowflex bodies in the times when the best mode of transportation was horse-n-buggy....

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I don't care if they aged up the Stark parents to their 60's...the actress playing Catelyn, regardless of her actual age looks too much older than Eddard regardless of Sean Bean's actual age. It has nothing to do with sexism or ageism. It's the freaking way she looks. Good God. You may not agree. That's fine.

I don't agree. They look kind of the same age to me. I suspect that Cat was aged up to match Ned, since they would have picked the "star" actor first.

It's an illusion caused by the fact on the screen women tend to play older than they actually are (after 35 or so), so we get used to the way that looks, and when an older couple actually match in age, it starts to look odd.

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Everyone has something. I read on one of the review threads in here that someone felt Emilia Clarke was too chubby to play Dany. Personally, I find that crazy.

While I think that the word "chubby" is ill chosen, definitely Dany in the books is much less curvy as befits a girl who is 5 year younger than in the TV show. She barely has breasts and Viserys worries multiple times that she'll be too young for Drogo. There is and should be no question that the things that happen to Dany in the books cannot be showed on a girl who looks 13. However, it is something of a different story when the character is aged up and physically matured so much.

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If Michelle Fairley had, say, one chemical peel, then I think she'd be fine for Catelyn.

Let's go back to back. She just looks a lot older.

(Granted it's probably because of the skin treatments/plastic surgery that Sean Bean has probably had, because that photo is from April 2011 and he looks great, but whatever)

In fairness to Ms. Fairley, that picture is probably from the George Best movie, in which she plays his alcoholic, worn-down mother. She looks much better in the Game of Thrones.

Personally, I think the TV Ned and Cat are not a bad match, that part doesn't bother me. Though I have my doubts about the Littlefinger / Cat part of the story. Not only because of the age / appearance, but the whole package. I have hard time seeing this reimagined TV Cat as the lifelong object of desire for the TV Littlefinger. (Admittedly, my idea of TV Littlefinger is based on appearence and some short clips, so I guess we will see how that works.)

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I don't think Fairley looks older than Bean. I don't know what the rest of you were watching, to be honest.

And even if she did, so what? In real life, some people look older than their age, and some look younger. If Cat on screen looks older than Ned, then what of it? Why is this a point of annoyance? Bones in an egg, much?

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While I think that the word "chubby" is ill chosen, definitely Dany in the books is much less curvy as befits a girl who is 5 year younger than in the TV show. She barely has breasts and Viserys worries multiple times that she'll be too young for Drogo. There is and should be no question that the things that happen to Dany in the books cannot be showed on a girl who looks 13. However, it is something of a different story when the character is aged up and physically matured so much.

good point, it would be Dakota Fanning all over again....is it possible that our concept of "13 years old" is different from that of a fantasy realms 13? We dont kno if a year is 365 days in the 7 Kingdoms (do we?). A year could be 500 days in the 7 kingdoms....

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I have hard time seeing this reimagined TV Cat as the lifelong object of desire for the TV Littlefinger. (Admittedly, my idea of TV Littlefinger is based on appearence and some short clips, so I guess we will see how that works.)

First of all, he hasn't seen her for many years, so his obsession is based on a romanticised memory of her. Secondly, he swiftly moves his attentions to her young daughter when he re-encounters the real Cat.

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I see where the OP is coming from, especially since I am a long time reader of the series as well (about 11 years). However I never entertained any notions that the tv series would be anything close to the books. One of my friends is such a purist that he wont even watch the series.

With the being said, it is kind of awkward seeing it on screen after having these characters in your head for so long. Ive re-read the series so many times that they are almost like old friends. So I had to watch it a couple more times before I was comfortable with it.

I really did like the show after getting over the initial awkwardness. Cersie and Jaime where pretty much how I imagined them. As far as Tyrion goes I will always imagine the ugly dwarf with the mismatched eyes and a beard, but I can live with the guy they have playing him because he did a pretty good job. Ned is perfect, I know the actor is older then Ned in the books but he can easily pass as someone in his mid to late thirties that has been through a lot and has a lot of cares.

I only really have a couple of small problems with the first episode of the adaption and none of them are a big deal except one thing (which I will mention in the next paragraph). Ive heard a lot of the criticism of Catelyn being to old and I can see why. I found the whole character to be a little bit off, especially with her chat with Cersie over dinner and her trying to stop Ned from beheading the deserter. I can live with this Catelyn though since I did not really like the one in the books lol.

The actress they found to play Arya is perfect but I didn't like the whole archery thing one bit. Arya shooting the arrow over Bran's head while Cat and Ned sit there and smile was not really the culture of the Stark family at this stage. They where still trying to make Arya into a lady at this point. I remember how uncomfortable Ned was when he discovered needle, so I don't know how they will deal with that when the time comes. Cant really bulk at letting the girl have a sword when they acted like her shooting a bow with great accuracy was perfectly normal (especially at an angle where an inaccurate shot could have taken one of her brothers in the back of the head.) If its okay for her to just show up in her dress and start shooting arrows right by her brother's head then I guess she should just ask Ned for a sword instead of having Jon give her one in secret. Having her shoot a bow perfectly right of the bat is what i would expect to see in a Robert Jordan book (i'm a fan of RJ dont get me wrong). I really hope they don't screw up Arya's character development to bad because she was one of my favorite characters. Other then that the Arya character was done well and they did a good job capturing her personality.

The scenes involving the Targaryen exiles where excellent and the casting is perfect for all the roles involved.

Opening scene was changed a little bit to make it faster which is good. However I agree with a previous poster that said the wolf scene should have been done verbatim from the books, it would have been a lot more powerful.

Winterfell and Kings Landing are exactly how I envisioned them.

The ending with Bran's fall was well done. I disagree with the OP on this point I thought the delivery was perfect.

So overall as a long time reader of the series I enjoyed the show. I give the first episode a 9 of out 10..losing a whole point for Arya doing archery. The rest was either extremely well done or at least okay.

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Uh huh. That's a difference in the TV and book versions. Sean Bean (51) can't pass as Ned Stark (about 35) either.

I did not know prior to you posting that that Sean Bean is 51. I thought that he looked 40-42 in this show, probably because all that hair was hiding his face. Also, men always look like they age slower than women, a sad fact of life. My husband is a good 6 years older than me and no one would know as we look about the same age. Well, it's normal. These comments that people make here about the actress's age and looks are not meant to be mean. You do know need to get your knickers into a twist about this discussion on age and beauty. Judging by the nick that you choose, it is a sore spot with you. You want to stand up for people who are judged by their appearances. I get it. But it is really not the point of this discussion as we are just the audience of a TV show sharing our opinions and perceptions.

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In a way I think a woman who got that many children and lived in a world where hot bathtubs where something in the way of luxury (and with no Genifique or gentherapy, or even Neutrogena to keep the skin from suffering the cold and dryness of northern winters) aging wouldn't be something happening smoothly. If they had to age the characters then it makes some sense for her to look a bit older, and as long as she and Ned where almost the same age (but I could be mistaken here) it's soemthing to consider the fact of her looking older/wearier than he does. The way we evaluate male and female age and appeal is not uniform: in a guy some expression wrinkles and a sun/wind wore skin give a manly appealing look; in a woman is the skin transparency and clear unblemished look to be a huge part of what we perceive as "young" (and that fades fast unless you really work hard to delay the inevitable). This said, Cat is one of the characters I thought would have look really differently from the screen ones, maybe not as a perceived age as much as the general look.

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Judging by the nick that you choose, it is a sore spot with you. You want to stand up for people who are judged by their appearances.

Not really. I just like to play big dumb warrior women in tabletop RPGs.

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good point, it would be Dakota Fanning all over again....is it possible that our concept of "13 years old" is different from that of a fantasy realms 13? We dont kno if a year is 365 days in the 7 Kingdoms (do we?). A year could be 500 days in the 7 kingdoms....

Girls seem to reach puberty around 12-14, which is pretty similar to modern teenagers.

It seems that the attitude was that girls could be married as soon as they went through puberty, but in Westeros, it would be more normal, at least for highborn girls, to have a few more years before being considered women. Maybe I'm mistaken about that, but I think I picked up that 15-17 was more usual.

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Girls seem to reach puberty around 12-14, which is pretty similar to modern teenagers.

It seems that the attitude was that girls could be married as soon as they went through puberty, but in Westeros, it would be more normal, at least for highborn girls, to have a few more years before being considered women. Maybe I'm mistaken about that, but I think I picked up that 15-17 was more usual.

I get that. I just meant in regards to Emilia Clarke appearing too old to play Dany, who is supposed to be 14 in the book, it would be in poor taste for HBO to actually have even a 16 year old play that character on screen. Also, our concept of time may not be the same in the story, so Dany's 14 could be our 18, for all we kno....ugh, seeing these previews makes me want to read the book all over again cuz I kno I missed things....

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so Dany's 14 could be our 18, for all we kno...

I don't think this explanation works, as we've had no indications from other characters and events that time passes differently in Westeros. They have odd lengths for season, but time passes at the same rate as our world as far as we know.

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There were a few things that stood out for me. Let's start with the Starks.

1) Theon doesn't come across as being as big of an asshole as in the books. I hated him from the moment they found the direwolves, but in the show he was barely noticeable.

2) I may be mistaken but was the brothel in which the Tyrion and Jaime scene took place in Winterfell? Because that doesn't seem right to me at all.

3) Arya came across wonderfully, but ya, Ned and Cat would not smile at her behaviour.

4) I don't think Cat looks older than Ned but she is no great beauty either. There is a problem with aging them up. But if you want Sean Bean, I guess it had to happen. I don't think she's pretty enough for Littlefinger to go after.

As to Dany

1) Her brother is not as mean, but then nobody can sympathize with a sociopath, so I guess that's okay.

2) Her wedding was all fucked up. No fantastic ride of Silver, thus no bonding with the Dothraki.

3) No tender moment with Drogo made her wedding night massively uncomfortable for a huge number of people. That's on top of the fact that it wasn't exactly made clear by the show that Dany was well resigned to the fact she had to have sex that night, even if she was scared. I don't know, it did not sit well with me.

Overall, I enjoyed the show, even though the book was way better. As an avid reader, I already visualize the books as I read them, so the show is redundant and a bit disturbing. But they got Arya and Tyrion right so I will keep watching. 1 minute of Dany riding Silver with breathless excitement would have made the show for me, alas, nothing is perfect, well, outside of the books themselves.

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Girls seem to reach puberty around 12-14, which is pretty similar to modern teenagers.

It seems that the attitude was that girls could be married as soon as they went through puberty, but in Westeros, it would be more normal, at least for highborn girls, to have a few more years before being considered women. Maybe I'm mistaken about that, but I think I picked up that 15-17 was more usual.

I may be wrong but I don't think it matter whether you are highborn or not as too what age you are married at. In ACOK i remember Sansa having her period and it meant that she was ready for marriage. so it's got more to do with when you hit puperty then your age.

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