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MercurialCannibal

[BOOK SPOILERS] The Book Was Better

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Yeah, it's occurred to me that we will probably get a more and more haggard Cat until the assassination attempt, at which point they may change the look a bit for the trip to the Capitol. A think a bigger problem that I have is that Cat always seemed like she would be really regal in demeanor to me, and that's not really how the actress acts or holds herself on the show so far. It's not that I think she should be prettier or anything, as I think the actress is very pretty as far as that goes, I just think should look more imposing and noble, and less like a very attractive hard-worked farm wife.

I just can't see the scene with her and Jaime in the dungeon either.

Just watched the last scene again, and the delivery of the line seems overly quick but what bothers me the most is that Jaime just gives Bran a sort of casual shove as he's turning around, where as I always thought he grabbed his shirt or something and pitched him out the window a little more forcefully.

Also, were Jaime and Cersei really getting it on in some kind of storage attic or something? I thought they were supposed to be in someone's rooms?

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Just watched the last scene again, and the delivery of the line seems overly quick but what bothers me the most is that Jaime just gives Bran a sort of casual shove as he's turning around, where as I always thought he grabbed his shirt or something and pitched him out the window a little more forcefully.

I can only agree here, it's done quickly. But for me it worked like a charm. NCW (Or is it NWC?..) sort of adressed this issue in an interview. He said he really wanted to push the hatable sides of his characters in the beginning of the series. And to see him do such an act, with such casual behavior... man, my jaw just dropped. And the way he says "the things"... it's amazingly strong: "yeah, pushing a 10 years old to his death, nothing special going on here, let's get back to it Sis!"

I really enjoyed it actually. While, as readers, we can't enjoy the surprises built for the viewers (omygod is f-ing someone... hey... wait... is that HIS SISTER?!?) they are some twists that makes the show really interesting to watch. I think everyone who's waiting for ADWD kind of likes Jaime by now... Seeing him doing this, so casually... it gives us a shot at hating him again. Just like we're supposed to :D

As for the attic or room / push or shove thing, I'm not sure it really matters.They are some profound changes in the series, and I don't think those raise any issue. I mean, him pushing Bran more forcefully wouldn't have made much of change there, would it ?

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I guess it just was not shocking for me in the way that I wanted it to be, but maybe nothing would fix that having already read the books.

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Just watched the last scene again, and the delivery of the line seems overly quick but what bothers me the most is that Jaime just gives Bran a sort of casual shove as he's turning around, where as I always thought he grabbed his shirt or something and pitched him out the window a little more forcefully.

I'm at work so I don't have my copy of AGOT in front of me, but my impression was that it was more of a casual shove, as befitted Jaime's devil-may-care, almost lackadaisical nature. As such I thought it was one of the more accurate depictions in the episode.

Also, were Jaime and Cersei really getting it on in some kind of storage attic or something? I thought they were supposed to be in someone's rooms?

No, the tower they were in was supposed to be abandoned and in a state of disuse; it was called the Old Tower or something like that in the book. The book also described it as one of Bran's favorite climbing spots.

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I'm at work so I don't have my copy of AGOT in front of me, but my impression was that it was more of a casual shove, as befitted Jaime's devil-may-care, almost lackadaisical nature. As such I thought it was one of the more accurate depictions in the episode.

Yeah. I had the same overall feeling : "The man looked over at the woman. "The things I do for love," he said with loathing. He gave Bran a shove."

The description of the act really enforces the idea of something casual, simple. While I do agree that most readers will find strange that the "loathing" really isn't there, I think the movement itself was done in a rather accurate way.

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I may be wrong but I don't think it matter whether you are highborn or not as too what age you are married at. In ACOK i remember Sansa having her period and it meant that she was ready for marriage. so it's got more to do with when you hit puperty then your age.

But Sansa was quickly forced into marriage and not by her own family. When the betrothal is made to Joffrey initially, the attitude seems to be that the marriage would be several years in the future, not as soon as Sansa is physically capable. Lyanna was 16 and unmarried, Cersei was probably 17 when she married Robert (Jaime was 15 when he joined the KG), Lord Frey has several daughters who are past puberty but not yet married, Margaery was 15 or 16 when she married Renly, the Citidel FAQ says that Cat was 17 or 18 when Littlefinger challenged Brandon ... Anyway, there are several accounts of girls being married in their mid-teens, but (almost?) the only examples in the books of girls being married at 12-13 are where they are being rushed or forced into it.

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Anyway, there are several accounts of girls being married in their mid-teens, but (almost?) the only examples in the books of girls being married at 12-13 are where they are being rushed or forced into it.

I think this is how it goes. The more stressed and threatened the noble families feel, the younger they tend to marry off their children. This makes sense, from their point of view. In desperate times, bonds between noble families need to be strong, and marriage is the easiest way to create bonds. Thus, little Tommen gets married to a girl twice his age, to cement the vital alliance between their two families.

This wouldn't have happened in happier times. Marrying children too young to have children of their own, or girls barely old enough to bear children (with all the health risks that involves) seems to be something the noble houses generally avoid, without absolutely pressing reasons to do so. Since the war is causing increasing amounts of pressing reasons, there is a lot more of it than usual.

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I agree that the book is better, but they nearly always are. I really enjoyed the show, however, with a two major compaints, and a few minor quibbles.

My first disappointment was in the wedding night scene with Dany and Drogo. In the book, it turned into something tender and not a rather cold-seeming rape that we saw in the show. I think this is a mistake, as Drogo made Danny love him that night, and without that love, her decisions and future would be different. I'm hoping that we see something better from this scene in the next episode, or at least some kind of patch that we will then understand her loving him.

The second thing was the handling of Arya, who is a favorite of mine. In the book, she was NOT a showoff (the archery scene in the show) or a brat (flinging food at Sansa in the show). Instead of showing her frustration at her own unsuitability to be a lady (because she's really such a tom-boy), like with her poor needlework, they chose to make her naughty. Yes, she's headstrong in both, and the actress is fine in the role. Also, in the third book there is a scene where she wishes she had a bow and the skill to use it. A minor detail, maybe, but I just read it and it stood out to me. I'm hoping we see more of the conflict and frustration she feels at her position. Also, without the needlework scene, her naming the sword Needle has less significance.

As for quibbles, they're pretty minor. People here have been talking about the women's hair being done or up or not. It's a fantasy, who's to say but the author how the women wear there hair? My trouble isn't with the style, it's with the lack of it on Jaime and a few others. Not only that, but the color isn't nearly the golden blond I expected. Jaime and Cersei (and their children) were supposed to have long wavy golden hair. And where's Tyrion's beard?

The direwolf scene change was annoying, because it was so different without any reasonable reason I could see. I understand about budgetary reasons for the lack of horses, the lack of great grass plains. But the whorehouse scene with Tyrion was unnecessary. Oh, and the white walkers seemed anything but white to me. What was up with that?

But overall, I loved it, and am really looking forward to the next episode.

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The second thing was the handling of Arya, who is a favorite of mine. In the book, she was NOT a showoff (the archery scene in the show) or a brat (flinging food at Sansa in the show).

"You have juice on your face, Your Grace"

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I just can't see the scene with her and Jaime in the dungeon either.

Well, as we all know- Jaime has peculiar tastes. Didn't he get a little happy seeing a naked Brienne (of the big bush) in the baths scene? Jaime is one messed up dude sexually, he's only been with his sister...

As for Cat... Many are saying she's too old looking, etc... We asked for gritty realism on this show- we got it! Today, when I mentioned to my husband (who hasn't read the novels but watched the show with me, so doesn't have a pre-conceived idea of Cat) that some folks where saying she's old/haggard looking (older looking than Sean Bean), he thought that this is a silly thing to think, he said "she looks probably the way an aristocratic woman would look after having 5 kids in the middle ages, what do they expect? Botox?"- (his exact words on 3rd Avenue and 13th Street)... He also thought she was attractive and that during the scene in the kitchen with Master Luwin (talking about candles and Tyrion) she had a nicely slender body. Personally, I think she matches Ned well.

In the end, I think they chose Michelle Fairley because she has the acting chops to go the Cat distance... And most of us know what that means.

Edit: I also think HBO wanted to hire a certain amount of Northern Irish actors.

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Why am I not surprised in the least that a fellow Agalloch fan likes this book series ;)

About time someone caught the reference! :cheers:

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There's some things the book does better, and some things that the show does better. Some things work both ways but are different.

The show is better in these respects:

- The prologue. Far superior in the show. The book was kind of lame about it. It was a cheesy horror scene with some sword play thrown in. Not scary. Not eerie. Made the Others come off as kind of banal.

In the show, it was intense. It opened up with a fantastically somber, beautiful shot of the Wall and the forest. The dismembered bodies were visually remarkable - particularly the symbolic arrangement - more so than just some dudes laying around. The wildling child was creepy as hell. And the Others were distant figures, hardly on screen at all, which made them far more intriguing and menacing.

I realize people are complaining that it doesn't make sense that the Others would dismembered their wights, or they would let one of the Night's Watch rush off after taunting him, but this are silly complaints. No one knows anything about the Others at this point. The show may in retrospect make more sense than the book. We don't know.

- The beheading. I like the guy's speech. It made him more sympathetic.

- Viserys. Rather annoying and simplistically villainous in the book. Far better done in the show.

- The characters being aged up. It's just more believable.

- Dany's rape. In the book this is pretty ridiculous. Some thirteen year old girl who is sold off to those she considers barbarians, after witnessing all manner of violence and rape, is not going to get turned on because her husband bothers to do a little foreplay first. That just wouldn't happen. I think the show is more true to the human character.

- The head kick. When Theon kicks the head, Eddard should have bitched slapped him in the books. It seems strange and out of character that he let that pass. It's better to do without it.

- Cersei. Opinions may differ here, but I prefer watching a character that's not a stereotype evil stepmother, and a stupid one at that. The show Cersei is more interesting.

Things the show definitely did worse:

-The Dothraki wedding. Dothraki warriors frolicking about in merry dance and battling over who gets to dry hump whom just didn't do it for me. High cheese factor here.

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Pretty good defense of the show choices, Humble Asskicker. I mostly agree with those except I did think the book prologue was eerie and prefered it to the tv version. I also really think the tv show didn't suitably emphasize the importance of the direwolves and their connection to the Stark children (we don't even see Arya or Sansa receiving theirs). Maybe it will, but with

Lady already likely getting offed in the next episode, and Nymeria being chased away

, it doesn't seem like there would be enough time.

But yeah, I did think the tv show did some things right. I agree that Dany's "rape", which not accurate to the books, is probably more realistic, although I do think omitting her important ride on the horse was a mistake. There's a lot of criticism of the crypt scene between Ned and Robert, but I loved that scene in the show, it was perfect and memorable for me. Loved the addition of Arya shooting the arrow and sneaking off in a helmet to watch the Lannisters enter Winterfell, and I liked the forshadowing of Dany walking slowly into the "too hot" bath.

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MC, I agree with your assessment that the pace seemed off. I mean, to us, the readers of the novel, a lot of the exposition was just that.

However, I totally saw something different in the tower scene. The way Jaime delivered the line, as flippant, and casual, and matter of fact, was more chilling than the book's version, where he said it with loathing.

I'm rewatching the scene now, and Cersei is frantic, saying "He saw us he saw us!!!" Jaime replies (with a bit of loathing), "I heard you the first time." Then you see his resolve. He knows what he has to do. He's got to act, to protect his family, their secret.

I thought it was a great delivery. (If you can't tell.)

agree with this thought the line was delivered very well - and to the op of course its not as good as the book the book is one of the greatest things ever written. But it is still very good and beats the hell out of anything else on TV and infact I would go so far as to say in some areas such as the prologue it is better than the book.

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I should have gone for the "latereviews" name instead... http://gotreviews.fr/fit-for-the-screen/

A bit more about how I felt about the changes we talked about here... as you'll see, I think the OP was spot on with his title:

... or was the story just not fully realized?

It's a pilot after all, that's what it's here for :P Enjoy your ep02 everyone!

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Book was better, what a surprise. In other news, the sun rose in the east and set in the west today.

Yeah it isn't as good as the books, but as far as TV goes, what TV show is better than what we've seen of Game of Thrones? My list of "Best TV shows of all time" would probably include Rome, Deadwood, NipTuck, Firefly, and a few others. So far Game of Thrones is on par or better than any of those. TV doesn't get much better this.

Regarding "aging up the characters": it is because kid actors are, for the most part, a kiss of death to any serious film or tv show (yes, there are a few exceptions). That was one of my big fears about the show, because the first book had a lot of kid scenes. Praise Allah that HBO played down their parts and/or aged them up.

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I would have liked to have had the prologue be more like the books! Basically Ser Waymar Royce being kind of a douche in the begining of the prologue and then showing some redeeming qualities right before he gets hacked to death by the Others is kind of foreshadowing for the rest of the entire series! I know this show will probably have time constraint issues, but they went in a diff. direction entirely. Besides the pacing issues, this was my biggest qualm.

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Just caught up on the show (I was on holiday) and I was quite pleased with it. Some of the cast are instantly standing out for me; Arya, Theon, Viserys [almost wish they had cast the actor as someone else as he's great] and of course Tyrion. I thought Jason Momoa was being underused but hopefully that's intentional so that we can see that he is not as bad as he initially seems (the tv show is making him far leass sympathetic already).

I was worried though that people who haven't read the books may be confused though (something I found happening in later installments of the potter films). I may not notice as i can fill in the gaps with the books. As a control (ever the scientist) I asked my brother, who has never read the books what he thought. Two episodes in and he thinks it's good "a bit like Rome" and that "the dwarf is good". Seems like the show is doing things right in that respect.

My major grumble is with the intro which is excellent aside from the clockwork building of cities. I find that really irksome as to me it screams steampunk which is nothing at all like the technology present in westeros. I think this would confuse even non-fantasy readers as well.

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