[BOOK SPOILERS] Season two

[marwyn]

This post will contain aGoT and aCoK spoilers - I would like to ask everyone in advance to not post spoilers further ahead than these two books, to make sure that people who are still reading aSoS / aFfC can also discuss along

Wanted to open this topic to discuss some of the problems that will doubtlessly be encountered in adapting A Clash of Kings to a second season of the tv series.

Edit: Season 2 has now officially been greenlit. Hoooo! :D

1. Storylines galore

In the first book, all the storylines start relatively close together. We basically start out in Winterfell/Pentos, then it slowly diverges to The Wall/Winterfell/King's Landing/Dothraki Sea(with some Eyrie in between, at some point). That's 4 or 5 major locations. In clash of kings however all the major PoV's move away from eachother. Oh and near the end we have Robb moving southwards, so thats another location.

Clash of Kings has a total of 9 PoVs: Tyrion, Daenerys, Jon, Davos, Theon, Bran, Sansa, Arya Catelyn. Only two of these PoV's spend the entire book close to eachother (Tyrion and Sansa in KL). Besides this, David & Dan also seem to have expressed an interest in showing us more of Robbs campaign. So this gives us the following potential storylines for the second season:

- Theon, as he visits the Iron Islands and goes and attack the North (intersects with Bran near the final half/third of the book)

- Bran, not doing a whole lot at all in Winterfell (so doesn't need to be shown a lot, but he will still be important near the end cause of what happens to Winterfell)

- Robb, proclaimed King in the North as he goes about his campaign in the riverlands

- Catelyn, visiting Renly

- Dragonstone. Whether they show us this through Davos' eyes or not, Stannis motivations will need some explanation - to explain why and how Renly dies, and also because of the battle of the blackwater, which will likely serve as the big climax of the season.

- King's Landing, where Tyrion is politicking with his sister, and Sansa is generally being stupid.

- Jon, travelling beyond the wall with the Night's Watch

- Arya, on the Kingsroad and in Harrenhal

- Daenerys, travelling through the Red Waste to Qarth.

Now, in the book this works well enough. But to juggle these 9 storylines in a tv series seems like an entirely different thing - not to mention the opening credits would have to be 5 minutes long to show all the locations. To me it seems obvious that the "big 3", Jon Dany & Tyrion, will for sure get their storylines. Arya is a major character that doesn't intersect with anyone else, so I figure they'd need to show her storyline to. But this doesn't leave a whole lot of room for the other characters.

Would it be possible they cut the Renly storyline entirely? That way you:

a) don't have to show Catelyn travelling to Renly

B) Need less time spent in the Stannis camp, maybe none at all: just let the Lannisters/Robb talk about how Roberts brother has proclaimed himself king and that he's likely going to attack King's Landing, etc. This last thing doesn't seem very likely to me since Dan & David have mentioned a few times how they're looking forward to adapting the Davos character to tv.

Another option would be to cut the Iron Islands. It would feel a bit random if at the end Theon suddenly attacked Winterfell, but then again they could also do this by hearsay and letting other characters talk about it. Alternatively they could cut Theon entirely and just make it a general Ironborn attack, although this would kinda reduce the dramatic impact.

These are the only options I could think of, but I'm really curious how you guys would like to see this handled.

2. The butterfly effect

As we readers know, the books have a tendency to make relatively minor characters important in later books. GRRM himself called this "The butterfly effect". On tv, besides the fact that the amount of storylines grows and grows, there is also the problems with the actors. Are they capable of carrying big scenes themselves when they were playing a relatively minor character in the first season? For book 2 I think this mainly comes down to Robb, Theon, and Renly. I have no idea whether this was discussed with the actors during the casting process or whatever, but it seems like it could become a problem at some point.

In the second book we also have the "inverse" butterfly effect, namely Jaime spending the entirety of the book locked up in Riverrun. I wonder if this creates any problems at all with the actors ("Yeah, we pretty much don't need you this year except for maybe 10 minutes in one episode. Next year you'll have a major major role though").

If either of these things become problematic, it could lead to major story changes for the series.

3. Budget and battles

We only have one really major battle in aCoK (as far as I can remember) which is the battle of the Blackwater. However if they really want to spend more time with Robb in the second season, that could lead to a big increase in costs. I'm not exactly an expert on this, but it seems to me that the battle scenes will be the most expensive.

This could also be influenced by the ratings and popularity of the first season, which will likely determine what the budget is for aCoK.

[Bronn is God]

Worry not sweet child. The fans will demand more Bronn, and thus S2 will only be from Bronn's perspective.

But seriously, the Dany/Jon/Bran storyline was the absolute worst part about CoK. A whole bunch of nothing happening, so we can cut it down to 6, and we have 2 characters in KL - Sansa doesnt do a whole much but observe. They should not under any circumstances cut out Stannis/Davos. Those two complement each other so well and have some of the best dialogue in the books. Plus, Stannis is such a baller.

[TheEvilKing]

Catelyn hangs out with Robb most of the time, her storyline is mostly with him. Still, that's 8 seperate storylines/locations going on at once. Theon and Stannis are the ones most likely to meet the chopping block. Otherwise, they'll need at least 12 episodes.

[Bronn is God]

Theon and Stannis are the ones most likely to meet the chopping block. Otherwise, they'll need at least 12 episodes.

????? Why would they cut the 2 better stories? Because we HAVE to see Dany the whore mother of dragons do nothing? We have to see Bran the annoying cripple who needs to die do nothing? We have to see Lord Snow, the protector of pigs do nothing?

[marwyn]

????? Why would they cut the 2 better stories? Because we HAVE to see Dany the whore mother of dragons do nothing? We have to see Bran the annoying cripple who needs to die do nothing? We have to see Lord Snow, the protector of pigs do nothing?

With the exception of Bran, we kinda do:

Dany and Jon are set up as two major characters. Really don't you think it would be anticlimactic for new viewers to see the season 1 finale, then find out she's not in the second season at all? Not to mention bringing her back out of nowhere in season 3 would be weird.

The same goes for Jon. They could have their stories simplified, but they definitely need to be told in some fashion.

[Bronn is God]

With the exception of Bran, we kinda do:

Dany and Jon are set up as two major characters. Really don't you think it would be anticlimactic for new viewers to see the season 1 finale, then find out she's not in the second season at all? Not to mention bringing her back out of nowhere in season 3 would be weird.

The same goes for Jon. They could have their stories simplified, but they definitely need to be told in some fashion.

Fair enough, but Jon Snow and Dany arent important to the "Game of Thrones" aspect of the story at all. They are going to be the world saving superheroes and dont we know it. Furthermore, the series probably wont go for all 7 seasons, because of production cost and the fact that the story is flipping on its ass. I am sure the majority of the audiences are drawn in because of the political/scheming aspect, the "Sopranos in Middle Earth" if you will. No doubt alot of casual viewers will throw a fit when they realize that this is dragons vs ice men with some fluff.

[Cereal Forel]

You can't cut Stannis, he plays a vital role in ACOK and ASOS. Without him there would be no battle on the blackwater and the wildlings would over run the Wall.

[Bronn is God]

You can't cut Stannis, he plays a vital role in ACOK and ASOS. Without him there would be no battle on the blackwater and the wildlings would over run the Wall.

Plus he is a better character than half the cast combined.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

and the fact that the story is flipping on its ass.

What does this mean?

I think you have let your own bias come through in you assessment. Just because Dany and Jon are not "ballers" does not mean they are not important to the story.

[Bronn is God]

What does this mean?

I think you have let your own bias come through in you assessment. Just because Dany and Jon are not "ballers" does not mean they are not important to the story.

Becoming more and more fantastical. And since when are they important in TWoT5K?

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

First of all, hopefully they will do 13 episode instead 10.

And then there will be a lot of cutting.

Here what I would do:

1) Cut most of Arya's storyline, I love Arya but it must be done, have Jaquen give her the coin after she rescue's him from the fire, and get rid of the entire Harrenhal plotline. Just occasionally have her in her travels witness the horror in the Riverlands. This also gets rid of the need to build a Harrenhal set.

2) Cut most of Catelyn scenes, she only needs to have the treat with Renly/Stannis scene and the murder of Renly scene, the rest of the conflict from the Stark side, should be shown from Robb/Blackfish perspective.

3)Cut all of Dany's wondering around scenes.

4)Cut most of Bran's storyline regarding the feast at Winterfell.

And that's just a start.

[Arataniello]

This morning, Entertainment Weekly is reporting that HBO has confirmed they have renewed for a second series.

[Corvinus85]

Yes, good news from HBO. Bring on the Blackwater.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Hopefully it's for at least 12 episodes rather than the 10 of season 1.

[fitheach]

Yippeeeee! Season 2! :cheers:

Dear HBO,

Please please please allow 12 episodes for season 2.

Thank you ever so much,

Fitheach

[TheEvilKing]

Okay newbs, I'm not saying Theon and Stannis should or will be cut completely. I hope to see their stories in full glory, of course. I'm just saying they won't cut any of the characters' arcs who they've already established in season 1, that would make no sense as that's who viewers will already be invested in.

But Theon could easily disappear then re-appear at Winterfell with his little army (where Bran's story is taking place) and go on from there. They could cut the Iron Islands stuff and the initial landing in Westeros with Cleftjaw etc. Having Theon just show up at Winterfell with a bunch of the Ironborn could work. We'll know at that point that Balon as declared himself King, and we'll also know about Theon's background with the Starks. It'll be a whole "whose side is he on?" kinda thing. (Disclaimer: Obviously I don't hope they do this because seeing Pyke and Balon and Ironborn culture in general would be awesome).

Again, they wouldn't cut Stannis altogether, of course. That's not what I'm saying. We'd get our first glimpse of him in the meeting with Renly. We'd also follow him to Storm's End and watch all that play out. But after that he could easily be off screen until the battle. Again, I hope they don't do this - I want to see Dragonstone, Stan, Mel, Dave and the burning of the Seven and all that juicy stuff.

But really, unless we get 12 hours I'm not sure if they can fit everything in without it being a confused mess. But I guess we'll see in a year. :smoking:

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Becoming more and more fantastical.

It is a fantasy series :dunno:

And since when are they important in TWoT5K?

Again, you are using a term unknown to me. Clash of Kings?

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

The war of the five kings

[Ferrum Aeternum]

But Theon could easily disappear then re-appear at Winterfell with his little army (where Bran's story is taking place) and go on from there. They could cut the Iron Islands stuff and the initial landing in Westeros with Cleftjaw etc. Having Theon just show up at Winterfell with a bunch of the Ironborn could work. We'll know at that point that Balon as declared himself King, and we'll also know about Theon's background with the Starks. It'll be a whole "whose side is he on?" kinda thing. (Disclaimer: Obviously I don't hope they do this because seeing Pyke and Balon and Ironborn culture in general would be awesome).

I like this idea a lot. Spending too much time and focus on the Greyjoys will just confuse the issue, I think. Plus Theon's sudden, unexpected return to Winterfell leading a team of Ironborn would bring a sizeable amount shock value to the unintiated, while still moving the story along as it progressed in the book.

Stannis though, I see as a major player in Season 2. The Blackwater will obviously be a huge plot point and he represents one side of that. Plus I've always thought the Stannis/Davos/Melisandre dynamic would make for great television.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

The war of the five kings

Thanks :)

I was coming up with "the wheel of time 5k." :P