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[Book Spoilers] EP102 Discussion


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I was happy about this because we finally got to see that there is a deeper connection to the wolves. I was starting to get frustrated because I felt non readers had no notion just how connected to the wolves the Stark kids are

Yeah...I honestly thought they were cutting to Bran's room to show that Summer was howling at Lady's death, but having Bran wake as Lady dies is kind of poetic, and a neat way to show the Stark-Direwolf connection.

PS: I really really really want a Northern Inuit now. I may have to do some convincing, with a baby on the way, but gods, are they ADORABLE. Nymeria's fetch and then lack of fetch had me in stitches.

Oh, and I also loved the "It is known." Dub and I were laughing throughout that scene.

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The pacing was much improved in this ep, and having the wolves grow up so fast helps show the passage of time.

Loved Arya. She's awesome. Considering everyone towers over her, she still holds her own.

And Peter just knocked one out of the ball park. Every word and every gesture is spot on. Even the way he moved Tommen down the bench and teased his niece and nephew spoke volumes about his character. His conversation with Jon was excellent.

This episode was very bittersweet when you consider that most of the farewells were forever.

My only gripe (pretty minor): Where the hell is Ghost? They should've powdered up a dog and let him run after Jon on the road or something.

Cat losing her memorable phrase didn't bother me too much, since it was written so plainly on her face.

All I can say is, I hope there are some extended episodes for the DVD. :) This is reminding a bit of the theatrical version of the LOTR movies. Fantastic in everyway, yet not enough time to linger on the small moments. Let's start a campaign for an extended edition of GoT! :cheers:

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Great episode.

Some nitpicking:

1) It seemed more confusing for non-readers from some lines I picked up, but maybe I am wrong on that.

2) "It should have been you" ... "It should have been in the episode!" But I'll get over it.

3) Need more Ghost!

4) Ilyn Payne looks sort of goofy, but I don't care much about Ilyn Payne.

5) Cersei's speech to Catelyn about losing a child with Robert was interesting. Was this child ever referenced in the books? Was it a real Baratheon lost or was it a sickly incest baby?

6) Investigator Catelyn was silly, but it helps explain the situation better to the viewer, I guess.

7) The random knight that stands beside Robert during the interrogation of Sansa/Arya/Joffrey looked almost exactly like Jaime, and it was confusing for a second, and probably confusing to non-readers if that was him or not.

My favorite parts:

1) Summer acting up during the death of Nymeria, and Bran's eyes opening. It was a nice touch to show that he is a bit different than a normal child, while skipping the dream sequence. It also left a nice cliffhanger for non-readers to wonder what is going on.

2) The two direwolf attacks looked amazing! Very well done.

3) I was not disappointed that they dropped Renly from the tent scene, as it was too emotional to introduce a new character. We'll meet him in King's Landing, no biggie.

4) Starting to subtly show that Jorah is attracted to Daenerys. Well done! We can't see it blatantly through her eyes off-page so I like the little things like him lifting her from her horse and the way he stares after her.

5) I love how the Hound looks!

6) Jon and Tyrion were both very well acted this episode!

[More to come as I remember and rewatch]

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PS: I really really really want a Northern Inuit now. I may have to do some convincing, with a baby on the way, but gods, are they ADORABLE. Nymeria's fetch and then lack of fetch had me in stitches.

Yeah, we'll see how you feel after a weekend of Comet and Kiai before you go thinking a puppy is in order. <_<

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Honestly, the ONLY complaint I have is the rehab of Cat Stark. The producers decision to make her less hateful detracts from the power of the story for me. But her battling the assassin to save Bran would have made her a hero in the eyes of most non readers regardless. I'm afraid the producers are falling into the trap of fearing to show the "heroes" as people with weaknesses. I hope I'm wrong and they don't continue to tweak the show into bad vs good

I don't think they did make her less hateful. The person who I was watching it with (who hasn't read the books) immediately said "what a bitch" after she told Jon to leave. And I, of course, told him she was more of a bitch in the book. But still it came across.

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I think so too but, unless Cersei is lying about the events, it doesn't make sense that Cersei and Robert had a kid, it died, then she had kids with Jaime and proceeded to kill all of her children with Robert. I did take note of the "dark haired" and "look just like Robert" stuff, but unless we find out later that the child didn't die, she killed it, I think we could have been without that as it only messes with the true events.

Eh...it doesn't mess with anything other than Cersei's Maggy the Frog prophecy of how many children she would have. And really, that's not that big of a deal, IMO.

I, too, believe she killed the child (or at the very least indirectly caused it's death by drinking pansy tea after she was pregnant).

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What's the big deal about "it should have been you"? Given the divergence of Cat & Jon, there is no point wasting screen time on any conflict between them other than establishing that he is a bastard and that she is not too thrilled with the fact.

In the books, the importance of "it should have been you" can be made with the internal monologues. But in a TV show, such a dramatically spiteful line would rightly be seen as a setup for an important conflict down the line -- a conflict that will never materialize. The line itself would only take a few seconds, but would confuse non-readers unless considerable additional dialogue/scenes were provided to frame it in the proper perspective. And to what end? Fill in a little extra back story and character development that have no relevance on anything that follows?

Even in the books a case can be made that the line makes little sense. Sure, Cat hates Jon the Bastard, but what line of reasoning would lead to the conclusion that it "should" have been him? I'm not saying it is impossible for a grief stricken mother to lash out in anger at the hated bastard, but it is a pretty extreme expression of hate, not to mention twisted justice, for a character who generally seems pretty sensible and fair-minded (for example: despite her belief in Tyrion's guilt, she treats him rather fairly).

Leaving out the line was the right decision for the show.

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Wow is all I can say. This episode was near flawless, every trivial difference was soooo made up for with all the actual dialog strait from the books. The scene with the assassin was perfect, I knew what was coming and still my heart was racing. Do wish Ghost was in the episode (only complaint), he could have just been sitting by Jon with Tyrion. After being a fan of the books for close to 15 years, this show is a real payoff. Amazing tonight.

Beware the snarks and grumpkins!

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Awesome. I was expecting this episode to be weaker than the 1st due to some of the early reviews.

My favorite scene was Robb and Theon discussing possible war and Maester Luwin putting them in their place. The Robb and Theon dynamic is beautifully set up. It's going to be tragic to watch how this arc plays out.

The ending was also done well and it made me feel like I felt during the book when I tell Ned to take his kids and go back North.

Someone said that they liked the actress who plays Missandei but isn't that Doreah?

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+1 for the dagger. the exchange and the wolf coming in.

-1 for CSI: Catelyn

Actually, Cat investigating what happened to Bran is a logical outcome to the assassin. They all thought he fell, but the attempted murder would get any intelligent lord or lady thinking. So naturally she or Robb would go back to the tower. In medieval times, it was the Lord of the manor that played detective, since Robb is a teenager, this would then fall to Cat or Luwin. Finding that hair is also very logical considering what they (Lann) were doing, so a stray strand of long hair (where there should be none), in a long abandoned tower, the location of which is were Bran fell. Its an easy conclusion to come too. What I like about the Godswood scene is how Maester Luwin shuts up Robb and Theon, I smiled at that exchange.

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Great episode.

Their was one wide angle scene with Ghost in it. His absence in other parts could be explained by him being off hunting. I think their was so much screen time with Nymeria, Summer, and Lady that they may have intentionally cut back Ghost scenes for now.

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The ending was also done well and it made me feel like I felt during the book when I tell Ned to take his kids and go back North.

Someone said that they liked the actress who plays Missandei but isn't that Doreah?

My fiancee turned to me after Robert walked out of the Inn's common room and said, "If Ned was smart, he would have grabbed his kids and got the fuck out then and there." (As a reader and boarder, he knows Ned was tragically not too smart. :P)

And yes, that's Doreah, and she's super hot.

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I got that as well!....Why did they think she should have said something else? .....the series is depicting Caitlin as sympathetic and Ceirsi as sympathetic....why does HBO want to show them in a better light?....dang.....

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And the second problem was the Catelyn/Cersei scene. Not because they are setting Cersei up to be sympathetic, because I think they definitely made her unlikeable when she insisted on Lady's execution, but because of the whole "fever took my first son" thing. Unless Cersei was lying to Catelyn, but she didn't seem like it. We all know *checks to see that this is the book spoiler thread* that Cersei was supposed to kill the actual children of Robert's. So I'm not sure how this fits in.

But really, minor problems with an amazing episode.

Eh...it doesn't mess with anything other than Cersei's Maggy the Frog prophecy of how many children she would have. And really, that's not that big of a deal, IMO.

I, too, believe she killed the child (or at the very least indirectly caused it's death by drinking pansy tea after she was pregnant).

Cersei is telling the truth, almost. She had a child killed. By tansy, not pansy. She did so with great gusto.

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5) Cersei's speech to Catelyn about losing a child with Robert was interesting. Was this child ever referenced in the books? Was it a real Baratheon lost or was it a sickly incest baby?

As far as I can remember, Cersei's only mention of the books of children with Robert is her telling about how every time she did she drank the pansy tea to abort it.

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