[BOOK SPOILERS] Episode 101, take 3

[aeu]

I think what Will was saying was "Forgive me, my lord", to Ned, for being an oathbreaker.

He doesn't say "my Lord" though, he just says "Forgive me Lord" It is a weird way to address Ned.

In any case, is there any reason for him to apologize to Ned? Will did not swear an oath to him. I can see him pleading to be forgiven before the sentence is passed, but no reason to ask for Ned's forgiveness right before he dies.

[RemitMan]

The first episode does a tremendous job dealing with the execution and the discovery of the wolves. Everyone is present and all of the most important lines are delivered flawlessly. In particular, Sean Bean shows a reluctant determination as he almost whispers the sentence of death. This scene shows us Jon, Bran, and Eddard, and reveals much about their characters.

On the other hand, the most disappointing scene in the first episode is the wedding night of Daenerys and Drogo. The book surprises us by revealing Drogo as a sensitive and loving husband. The series shows us a rape scene. One of the most touching and special moments of the first book is completely reversed. How can Dany come to love someone who’s raped her? The series has taken its first serious misstep.

http://asoiaf.ovrnite.com/2011/04/18/game-of-thrones-s01e01/

[Thelonious]

I finally saw this, as I went hom for Easter and my Mum(!) taped it, so we watched it together. It's interesting to watch it with someone totally unfamiliar with the story. She has a background in medieval history so Dany being traded about like a chattel didn't seem to bother her, which I thought was interesting. She had one complaint, one question and made one prediction about the story:

Complaint: She didn't rate Peter Dinklage's performance. I kind of agree, because for all that he's been good in other things i've seen, he struggles with the accent in this and it's detrimental to his performance. That's something that can be improved though.

Question: It wasn't 100% clear to her what throne Viserys was lusting after. "I assume it's Fatty's", she said, but it's interesting that that perhaps wasn't made totally clear.

Prediction: "I think it'll turn out that they have quite a good marriage" she said of Dany and Drogo at the end of the wedding scene. Cue Emilia Clarke sobbing. "But maybe not just yet".

[CryFenril]

He doesn't say "my Lord" though, he just says "Forgive me Lord" It is a weird way to address Ned.

In any case, is there any reason for him to apologize to Ned? Will did not swear an oath to him. I can see him pleading to be forgiven before the sentence is passed, but no reason to ask for Ned's forgiveness right before he dies.

I have rewatched the scene a few times, and I could swear it's a very quiet but contracted "Forgive me, m'lord" - which seems perfectly appropriate, as one would likely be asking forgiveness for one's crimes before dying.

[Papa Manderly's Meat Pie]

I finally saw this, as I went hom for Easter and my Mum(!) taped it, so we watched it together. It's interesting to watch it with someone totally unfamiliar with the story. She has a background in medieval history so Dany being traded about like a chattel didn't seem to bother her, which I thought was interesting.

...

Prediction: "I think it'll turn out that they have quite a good marriage" she said of Dany and Drogo at the end of the wedding scene. Cue Emilia Clarke sobbing. "But maybe not just yet".

I finally watched it with my wife, and she had a similar reaction to the Dany-Drogo scene. She has never read the books (and she doesn't have any sort of history background, she is a music teacher) but she thought Drogo was actually pretty tender with Dany.

Her comment, while the scene was happening, was literally something to the effect of, "What are you crying for? He is being pretty gentle, and he is obviously going to be way better than your brother. Just Relax!"

I guess my reservations about this scene proved to be unfounded.

[red snow]

Just caught up on the show (I was on holiday) and I was quite pleased with it. Some of the cast are instantly standing out for me; Arya, Theon, Viserys [almost wish they had cast the actor as someone else as he's great] and of course Tyrion. I thought Jason Momoa was being underused but hopefully that's intentional so that we can see that he is not as bad as he initially seems (the tv show is making him far leass sympathetic already).

I was worried though that people who haven't read the books may be confused though (something I found happening in later installments of the potter films). I may not notice as i can fill in the gaps with the books. As a control (ever the scientist) I asked my brother, who has never read the books what he thought. Two episodes in and he thinks it's good "a bit like Rome" and that "the dwarf is good". Seems like the show is doing things right in that respect.

My major grumble is with the intro which is excellent aside from the clockwork building of cities. I find that really irksome as to me it screams steampunk which is nothing at all like the technology present in westeros. I think this would confuse even non-fantasy readers as well.

I'm pleased they made a biggish deal about discovering the direwolves although it was a pretty quick transition into them ageing up and two episodes in I feel they are shying away from the wolves when they can. Perfectly understandable considering they are a tricky element to film. Seeing the mother though, I'm reassured that the wolves will become more dire come season 2 :)

Regarding that scene, Vicky pointed out to me that Jon Snow stops before Ghost yelps. We initially thought that was a bad editing mistake bit then I wondered if they were actually being really clever (the books clearly indicate a connection between the stark children and their direwolves). Already the show has me doing "lost-style" cover-ups for potential mistakes.

EDIT: I forgot that the actor playing Joffrey was excellent too. He's a complete an utter little shit and that's exactly how Joffrey should be. I can see his scenes being a guilty pleasure. So far the "bad guys" are definitely stealing the show for me. Can't wait for littlefinger.

[Thelonious]

I think Alfie Allen as Theon may prove to be inspired casting. What he lacks in terms of looks he makes up for in swagger, which is something that hadn't occurred to me when reading the books but makes perfect sense.

[Hazl]

I think Alfie Allen as Theon may prove to be inspired casting. What he lacks in terms of looks he makes up for in swagger, which is something that hadn't occurred to me when reading the books but makes perfect sense.

I'd love for GRRM to describe Theon in the books using the word "swagger".

[RSasoiaf]

Finally got to see it all this weekend.....it was hard to get considering i found no way to get HBO around here.

Regarding the episode.....LOVE IT!!!! it´s bound to be epic. WELL DONE!!!!

My only notes:

Tyrion and Arya were just over the top, altough actors were good and scenes were funny so it doesnt really hurts. It looked good!

But has others said

On Tyrion: he does not come across in the book like we see him in his first scenes. Episode 1 Tyrion is on a different level compared with book Tyrion. But its ok because as i have seen on following episodes, he seems to be getting on track.

On Arya: yeahhh, Maisie is just perfect and whatever they write she will perform a small wonder out of it. Still....i had the feelling that was not really the Arya we start with in the book. I have the fellling book Arya is a lot more shy and inside the closet to beggin with. I feel its only after facing Joff and loosing Nymeria that she really starts to go a bit more agressive towards Sansa and only after Syrio does she openly sees herself as a possible warrior. Also, the kind of passion, commitment and sacrifice she goes through in order to try and become a warrior....i´m not sure people will understand that or even buy it if the show tries to go there. Because as for the show, she already started like a little warrior, very confident, a natural. Both the scene wth the bow and the food play in the banquet are a bit unrealistic considering what we know about her in the beggining. And boy, would she get in trouble if she would do that food fight on the royal banquet.....she is not the Stark´s jester but a lady from a high house. But again, it looked good so let it be :) i was pleased with seing it!

On the most often complaints:

Cat´s motives: I´m ok with it, its a change but im ok with it. it doesnt go that far from the character and she can still get back on track and do what she will have to do.

Theon: we have time for him latter!

The crypt and the lack of info about Lyanna and the rebelion: miss it a bit but there´s still time for that also.

Sandor: no problem, i will give the guy the chance and trust he can act bad ass.

Danny/Drogo: No problem also. I understand what they are doing. I would still like to have Danny start showing her dragon blood from the 1st step, but its ok if they want to make for a more "weak girl grows strong" story ark. In reallity, Danny´s book does have the power and the will to fight since the beggining, she just cant see how she should use it and she is more or less misguided by Viserys view on the universe (which is more or less the only one she has to start with). This is why she has a good first night with Drogo, why she proudly mounts her Silver, she really wants power, she really feels like being a Queen is her destiny. She may not be so sure on the path she is taking but she does want to be powerfull and she imediatelly feels somewhat attracted by Drogo´s power. And by the same logic, she quickly dismisses Viserys as week as soon as she can compare him with other better examples. HBO´s Danny will be a bit different but in the end will get more or less to the same place i believe. So its ok.

[Gildenlow]

I just noticed...

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llspazpA7v1qjp1ryo1_500.png

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llspaaGAnD1qjp1ryo1_500.png

there's multiple Others.

[litechick]

OK, so I'm a noob to the HBO threads and I just bought the DVD's and watched them all within the last 24 hours. I want to jump in and discuss but I'm a year too late. Be that as it may, these are some of the things I'm thinking about on first viewing.

The lift cage at the Wall: I like that they put it on a track rather than a hanging, swaying contraption like in the books. I'm a little skeptical about the manpower of the lift though. That fricken thing would be heavy and they just show one poor bastard walking a wheel to lift it.

At the very least, it should be counterweighted with a load equal to the weight of the lift, leaving the operator to hoist the weight of the cargo only. I will admit that this is the sort of thing that would only interest engineering geeks so I won't belabor the point.

...except to add that I'm missing the switchback stair. It will be important later and I'm curious what they will do when the time comes. Also, a lift on a track can't swing over to deliver Jon Snow on the North side of the wall for his fateful meeting with Mance.

The flipflop of Catelyn's approval for Ned accepting the Hand job: I'm guessing that they chose to make the TV character argue against it in order to make the Cat more likeable to the viewing audience and I don't necessarily fault them for that but someone who is deeply familiar with the book version, it's a major departure for the whole motivations and essence of the character.

Ditto on Tywin gutting an animal: I get it that they needed to communicate an air of menace immediately as the foundation of that character. In the books George has the liberty of developing that menace without Tywin speaking a word but even for a great actor, that would be hard to pull off in a 2-3 minute scene. Nevertheless, I have that fangirl, kneejerk reaction that Lord Tywin would never do that--he would command a servant. That detail would be entirely appropriate to the introduction of Randyl Tarly but not Lord Tywin.

The First Ride: In the commentary they delicately indicate that the actors didn't feel capable of communicating that switch of tone from brutal to romantic but it doesn't quite scan for me. In the books, Drogo has his game face on during the public portion--seeming warlike and hard--but once he gets Dany alone he is all gentleness (albeit with the unstated fatalism that she is gonna get fucked one way or the other.)

He is patient with her fears and her timid modesty. He gives her time to transition through her emotions, come to acceptance and ultimately desire. In real time, I'm guessing that this evolution would take at least an hour. Realistically, that could only be done on screen with a montage and I can't blame them for not going that route.

The real shift is from the first ride to the second. Drogo is all sensitivity and consideration at first but in the books he quickly settles in to the sort of sexual dynamic with which he is more familiar and that has always seemed to me to be the disorienting and troubling part.

Because the HBO version starts with rape, it throws the whole dynamic off because why is she reminding him of it in an effort to assert that intimacy and bring him back from living death? Bah, it's interesting to discuss the differences but I can't really fault the production too much. It's a complicated thing to communicate on screen.

I'm surprised to see so much commentary on the snakes. I easily rationalized it like this: a bunch of allies/suck-ups are trying to out do each other giving exotic and expensive gifts; the snakes produce some precious venom and therefore make a terrific wedding present.

This post is way too long so I'll just cut off there and see if anyone wants to talk to me. :)

[opark77]

OK, so I'm a noob to the HBO threads and I just bought the DVD's and watched them all within the last 24 hours. I want to jump in and discuss but I'm a year too late. Be that as it may, these are some of the things I'm thinking about on first viewing.

That must have been a mammoth viewing session if you watched all ten and the commentaries!

The lift cage at the Wall: I like that they put it on a track rather than a hanging, swaying contraption like in the books. I'm a little skeptical about the manpower of the lift though. That fricken thing would be heavy and they just show one poor bastard walking a wheel to lift it.

At the very least, it should be counterweighted with a load equal to the weight of the lift, leaving the operator to hoist the weight of the cargo only. I will admit that this is the sort of thing that would only interest engineering geeks so I won't belabor the point.

...except to add that I'm missing the switchback stair. It will be important later and I'm curious what they will do when the time comes. Also, a lift on a track can't swing over to deliver Jon Snow on the North side of the wall for his fateful meeting with Mance.

We don't see that at all in this episode do we? You make a valid point regardless about counter weighting.

Gemma Jackson (Production Designer) did a featurette on the lift design if you want to see some behind the scenes footage of it:

The flipflop of Catelyn's approval for Ned accepting the Hand job: I'm guessing that they chose to make the TV character argue against it in order to make the Cat more likeable to the viewing audience and I don't necessarily fault them for that but someone who is deeply familiar with the book version, it's a major departure for the whole motivations and essence of the character.

But you get the Angel/Devil shot with her and Luwin over Ned's shoulders out of it! I agree it is a sweeping change, however it didn't seem to affect her through the rest of the season. Why do you think she wants him to go in the book? I think her motivations in the book lie with firstly with the protection and secondly with the betterment of her family. She recalls the symbolism of the direwolf with the stag's antler in its neck signifying that she thinks Robert poses a threat to her family and concludes that Ned must not offend Robert by declining. Ned also realizes that she is keen for Sansa to become Queen one day.

In the show they have dropped the secondary concern with the betterment of her family but her primary motivation is still protecting them - she has just reached a different conclusion about the dangers of the situation and the best course of action. She takes Ned's position from the book of wanting to stay in Winterfell. In the show Luwin argues alone for going south while in the book he backed her up. Having the two sides verbalize the arguments for and against the decision to go south helps to create a dynamic and dramatic moment for Eddard.

Ditto on Tywin gutting an animal: I get it that they needed to communicate an air of menace immediately as the foundation of that character. In the books George has the liberty of developing that menace without Tywin speaking a word but even for a great actor, that would be hard to pull off in a 2-3 minute scene. Nevertheless, I have that fangirl, kneejerk reaction that Lord Tywin would never do that--he would command a servant. That detail would be entirely appropriate to the introduction of Randyl Tarly but not Lord Tywin.

I've seen this kneejerk reaction several times. I don't understand it. I thought the symbolism was fantastic and that the barely contained rage of book Tywin was well expressed by show Tywin killing and butchering a stag all on his own. It also speaks to his appreciation of well honed skills and his distaste for other people. The English gentry still go on about respect for the animals they hunt today.

The First Ride: In the commentary they delicately indicate that the actors didn't feel capable of communicating that switch of tone from brutal to romantic but it doesn't quite scan for me. In the books, Drogo has his game face on during the public portion--seeming warlike and hard--but once he gets Dany alone he is all gentleness (albeit with the unstated fatalism that she is gonna get fucked one way or the other.)

He is patient with her fears and her timid modesty. He gives her time to transition through her emotions, come to acceptance and ultimately desire. In real time, I'm guessing that this evolution would take at least an hour. Realistically, that could only be done on screen with a montage and I can't blame them for not going that route.

The real shift is from the first ride to the second. Drogo is all sensitivity and consideration at first but in the books he quickly settles in to the sort of sexual dynamic with which he is more familiar and that has always seemed to me to be the disorienting and troubling part.

Because the HBO version starts with rape, it throws the whole dynamic off because why is she reminding him of it in an effort to assert that intimacy and bring him back from living death? Bah, it's interesting to discuss the differences but I can't really fault the production too much. It's a complicated thing to communicate on screen.

I agree the dynamic is altered for the show by the staging of that first scene. I think the second time we see them have sex in the show is very unlikely to be the second time they have had sex. The look of Dany in the first scene of "The Kingsroad" suggests that she is having a very difficult time of it for days / weeks. By the time she gets pregnant in "Lord Snow" she tells Irri that she has missed two periods so at least 5 weeks (and probably much longer) have passed since the wedding night.

I'm surprised to see so much commentary on the snakes. I easily rationalized it like this: a bunch of allies/suck-ups are trying to out do each other giving exotic and expensive gifts; the snakes produce some precious venom and therefore make a terrific wedding present.

Now this was in this episode! I also didn't dwell on it either before hearing the commentary; I'm not sure I even had a rationalization.

This post is way too long so I'll just cut off there and see if anyone wants to talk to me. :)

Breaking your thoughts down by episode instead of trying to cover the whole season in one go is probably a good way to get them into easier to discuss portions. I'm rewatching the series in anticipation of the second season and have been writing a series of blog posts at gameofthrones.wikia.com if you're interested.

[litechick]

Opark, thanks for responding.

That must have been a mammoth viewing session if you watched all ten and the commentaries!

Yeah, I have a tendency to work with something on the TV so I just keep rolling through them while I did a soldering project. :)

You are correct and my post was not strictly limited to Ep1. I could argue that we see the lift in the opening but...still guilty.

Why do you think she wants him to go in the book?

I agree with your assessment of her motivations. The point which I think gets missed by her flip flop is that she is from the south (comparatively) and she is on board with playing the Game in a way that Ned is not. She knew he was uniquely ill-suited to play the Game but she sent him anyway--she threw him to the lions (if you'll pardon the expression) to suit her own ambition.

Even as I write it out, I realize it's a petty point to nitpick but for some reason I feel like the show is candy-coating her and I would rather let her be judged with all her strengths and flaws intact.

Same with Tywin. It changes the essence of the character. In order to understand Lannister pride you need to understand that he would never lower himself to preparing food for others (cause I don't see how he could possibly be planning on eating it all himself.)

Dany/Drogo--not really worth quibbling about, it all worked out in the end. It's just a shame that the audience missed out on that tender side of him. I loved the way the confrontation over the slaves turned out and it goes a long way to mending the initial error.

[Sir Cortnay Penrose]

Is there a forum/thread for us poor mortals who had to wait for the DVDs to watch season1 (and are now trawling the internet for comments on season 2? I gather

Sir Rodrik meets a different death than in the book...

.

I haven't got any smart comments, except it was great. My husband and I managed to get our daughter on board. Her comment on Ned's death was "Poor Cat."

[Lyonel B]

I was just re-watching this episode and noticed a bit of a glaring error. In an attempt to convince Ned to stay in Winterfell, Cat pleads with Ned that "your father and brother once road south on a King's demand." While Rickard was called to answer Brandon's charges, Brandon rode to KL on his own accord.

[Distorted Humor]

Watched it last night - the big issue for me was that Drogo was a lot less tender with his new bride then in the books. But I must say, the casting was amazing.

[rmholt]

To treat my withdrawal watching old Eps.

Q: deserter claimed to see white walkers. But he just saw wights, right? Unless there was a WW off screen. Before that the dead wildlings were laid out in a pattern. Does that mean anything to anyone?

Snow looked fake! Or was that just me?