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Ran

Glimpses from Anne Groell

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Murdering Tommen with the Tyrells and the Lannisters already at each other's throats due to the trial of queens would be an excellent move, if you want to plunge the Realm into another civil war (and Varys, for example, would be a guy with both motive and means to pull such a thing off). Especially if the evidence points towards the Tyrells. But even without that, Tommen's very existence is all that holds the Lannister-Tyrell-alliance together - if there is still such an alliance when Mace, Kevan, and Randyll Tarly arrive in King's Landing.

Without Tommen, King's Landing will be bereft of a legitimate figurehead to claim the Iron Throne. The factions could claim the power in the name of Myrcella, but everyone would obviously be aware of the fact that Myrcella was in Dorne in the hands of Doran Martell. And especially the Tyrells would have a real problem with a Queen Myrcella, as she is already betrothed to Trystane Martell and it is thus pretty much impossible for, say, Willas Tyrell to became her Prince Consort.

But it makes much more sense that they guys talking about the death of a King were referring to Joffrey's poisoning. They could have been people connected to Illyrio, Doran, Stannis, or some eastern faction from Braavos, Volantis, or Slaver's Bay.

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I'd be surprised if Jon sent one of their few ships out to Slaver's Bay just to check up on some rumors from sailors about dragons.

Why? It's all the trend apparently.

Also, you've not heard anything of the story in ADWD. There are numerous possibilites. I'll list some, shall I?

- The ship is sent by Stannis, not Jon.

- The ship is sent by someone else in the Night's Watch.

- Jon hears about the dragons and thinks "hmm you know what might be a pretty good weapon against the Others?"

- Mel sees the dragons in her fire and Jonny Boy believes her

- A NW ship heading elsewhere gets lost at see and winds up getting intercepted by Victarion

It's GRRM, for fuck's sake! You guys often think way too linear when trying to predict the story. There are many, many things that could happen. Use your imaginations, friends.

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It was heavily implied in one of Theon's PoV that his men that were murdered was in fact killed by Theon and maybe Ramsay...

...Asha could also be a possiblity for the killer...

Yes, right on. I forgot it was suggested that Reek/Ramsay killed Theon's men previously. So, a good and ironic tit for tat would be to have Reek/Theon kill Ramsay's men now.

I also thought of the Asha possibility, but hadn't convinced myself yet that she would be so slow and subtle. I would think she would simply take out anyone guarding Theon and spring him rather than offing Ramsay's men one by one. It seems in this case, the killer is trying to make Ramsay's life in Winterfell a living hell and make him leave or to just slowly and continuously weaken him until they can wipe him out. Someone wants vengeance and/or doesn't want him in Winterfell. Asha doesn't really care about Winterfell or Ramsay. She just wants Theon for her own ends, but it's still possible.

I also thought of Osha returning to hiding in Winterfell's crypts and killing where she could, but it doesn't make sense to bring Rickon there.

The other passages I have really no idea about:

-Someone with a brother in King's landing could be just about anyone after the death of any king, someone from kingsguard, the faith, or any other group with 'brothers' or anyone with a brother.

-The wildlings are probably sheltering in Castle Black's tunnels, or perhaps those in Mole's Town, when winter arrives...

-The only other man I remember with greyscale was one of Balon's dead brothers, Harlon? Well, he's both dead and has greyscale on his mouth and lips, so that matches Tyrion's comments, but that can't be what it means. Wait, one of Dany's prophesies was also about a dead man on the prow of a ship with GREY lips. That fits too. Me thinks I have me a crackpot theory...

-Thin man with Tyrion?

-'Grief' was one of Victarian's ships in the Iron Fleet, but this passage could also be anything.

Fortunately the book is out soon now.

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Why? It's all the trend apparently.

Also, you've not heard anything of the story in ADWD. There are numerous possibilites. I'll list some, shall I?

- The ship is sent by Stannis, not Jon.

- The ship is sent by someone else in the Night's Watch.

- Jon hears about the dragons and thinks "hmm you know what might be a pretty good weapon against the Others?"

- Mel sees the dragons in her fire and Jonny Boy believes her

- A NW ship heading elsewhere gets lost at see and winds up getting intercepted by Victarion

It's GRRM, for fuck's sake! You guys often think way too linear when trying to predict the story. There are many, many things that could happen. Use your imaginations, friends.

But the Grief is an Ironborn ship, which Victarion recognizes. It's mentioned as part of his fleet in AFFC. Unless the Night's Watch somehow captures and commandeers it, I don't see how it could be them.

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Also, you've not heard anything of the story in ADWD. There are numerous possibilites.

I'd go further. I think there are infinite possibilities. Literally anything could happen in ADWD. So every "possibility" we could come up with is worth as much as the virtual paper that it's printed on. I don't care what's possible; why don't you make an argument about what's likely?

Like Baleraxar says, we know that this is an ironborn ship named Grief. But beyond that, I don't see the case for Jon (or Stannis, or Patchface) sending people to Slaver's Bay, so I don't think the "crow" is a man of the Night's Watch. Jon is faced with sharply limited resources and two very real and very immediate threats to the realm: a potential wildling assault, led by Tormund; and a potential Other assault using untold supernatural forces. Meanwhile, trade is likely drying up because of autumn and soon winter storms, while the North is too much of a basket-case to provide supplies, while at the same time he has literally thousands of hungry mouths to feed (and clothe, and arm, etc). So the time may well come in just a few months' time when the Night's Watch lives or dies based on the Eastwatch navy's ability to bring in supplies. With that in mind, Jon (or somebody else in the Night's Watch) would be foolish to waste a ship chasing down rumors or visions. A dragon might be helpful if he could get one; but weapons, armor, pitch, etc., will be critical no matter what.

Meanwhile, it's quite easy to imagine a scenario in which Euron Crow's Eye goes to Meereen. For him, what goes down there is critical to the success of his mad dreams of conquest. I'd be surprised if he was anywhere else.

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Regarding the ship with a black sail and the possibility that it's a Night's Watch ship, I'm certain it's Grief that Victarion names. That's one of the ships of the Iron Fleet, noted in his chapters in AFfC.

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That's good and why do you think that Anne couldn't say that?

Because she was being a tease? I don't think there are many words that could give away huge plot developements by itself. I think the reason she doesn't tell us, but just gives us the first letter is for this very reason: to get us speculating and excited/

The reason for marrying fake Arya to Ramsay was for him to claim Winterfell. I'm assuming the book quote refers to Ramsay after Ramsay marries fake Arya. It happens 2/3rds or so of the way through the book, so it's perhaps late enough in the story. Ramsay becomes 'Lord' of Winterfell through his marriage and moves in.

Right. But I just always got the impression that Winterfell had been nearly destroyed and was going to be abandoned. Judging from this spoiler, that is not the case. But I always imagined that was how things would go, especially after attacking Theon and his men they simply razed parts of the castle, killed everyone and left. I imagined the castle would stand abandoned until a Stark came to rebuild it. I am also very surprised that the fake-Arya plan is working now that they are in the North.

Now, I have a question: is the scene with Victorian not one of the one's we have transcribed? Or is it there and I am just missing it?

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I am also very surprised that the fake-Arya plan is working now that they are in the North.

Why? To succeed, Ramsay needs to intimidate people who know better into keeping silent, or discredit/murder those who speak the truth. He doesn't really need to fool anybody. He could say that Jeyne Poole was Ned Stark and it would work just as well.

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Also there really aren't that many people around that might even be able to remember Arya or have even met her, much less met her recently enough (2 years ago) to state that she's not her. It's basically...Jon. Winterfell's entire population is wiped out or scattered, almost no one else has come to Winterfell regularly to talk with Ned and probably wouldn't have remembered Arya anyway.

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Regarding the ship with a black sail and the possibility that it's a Night's Watch ship, I'm certain it's Grief that Victarion names. That's one of the ships of the Iron Fleet, noted in his chapters in AFfC.

OK, so if it's a ship of the Iron Fleet, a black sail could mean plague, as in greyscale.

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The last word at a guess might be darkness representing the long night beginning

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Balerion the Cat

I'm wondering if the character speaking of his brother abd the escape from KL could be Margaery?

This seems not impossible but very unlikely. For Margaery to have to flee KL in the present climate would seem to require that some fairly major shit has gone down there and shifted things around, and that probably wouldn't happen without us getting to see it. And while I'd be over the moon if that was the case since the KL plotline is near and dear to me, and this line is spoken well over half-way through the book so we're potentially beyond the Feast timeline by this point and so it's not impossible, I don't know that we'll see any new movement in King's Landing this book. Reasons why I'm wrong very welcome.

At an uneducated guess, I'd say it's more likely this is someone who fled in the aftermath of Joff's death, or maybe even Robert's, so some considerable time ago, and has now made their way to the Free Cities, most likely either Braavos or Meereen as both figure in this book.

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I think you're right it's the Kettleblacks, and the king is Tommen.

Maybe it's Margaery. I know Loras may still be on Dragonstone, but she also has her brother Garlan Tyrell.

Edit:

LOL....someone beat me to posting this idea. My apologies. :blushing:

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RWHamel,

Silence has black sails. They're also used by smugglers during night runs. I think the ironborn just use sails as a way to scare people -- black sails probably signal "badass reavers coming" when it's on a longship or one of their hybrid galleys.

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RWHamel,

Silence has black sails. They're also used by smugglers during night runs. I think the ironborn just use sails as a way to scare people -- black sails probably signal "badass reavers coming" when it's on a longship or one of their hybrid galleys.

What immediately jumps into my mind is the myth of Theseus returning to Greece on a ship with a black sail, and his father King Aegeus drowning himself, because he thinks Theseus is dead.

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"We left Kings Landing that very night, my brother said it was for the best, before someone wondered if we had any part in the King's death and decided to torture us to find out."

My initial thought with this one was: Is Arya still trying to learn to lie? The more I look at it the less convinced I am though.

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"We left Kings Landing that very night, my brother said it was for the best, before someone wondered if we had any part in the King's death and decided to torture us to find out."

My initial thought with this one was: Is Arya still trying to learn to lie? The more I look at it the less convinced I am though.

Welcome, LaHotah! Could you explain a bit more about what you mean?

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