Poll: How would you rate Episode 103?

[KhalHodor]

Old Nan's scene was pretty awesome, I thought.

Agree. Those lines are right from the book and are among my favorites. The actor really nailed it. Well done, whoever you are.

[Whitering]

I voted 8 and it had nearly all to do with Arya and Tyrion. The actors are fantastic. I am a big Sean Bean fan and the small council guys all seem well suited the their roles. Varys is just the right amount of oily heh

There is a show I watch called Make It or Break It. I Tivo every episode and skip large parts of it, this hour long show becomes a 15 minute episode the way I watch it. I filter out all the characters I don't like and all the teenage angsty crap.

I noticed I skipped right over all the Dany stuff this episode. I certainly don't do that when I read.

All in all pretty good, I hope to see more of Arya over the coming episodes.

Edit, an oh ya, I agree about Old Nan, her 20 seconds there made the White Walkers way more foreboding and scary, in way less time than the intro to episode 1 did in a much longer time.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Whitering

[Tywin's bastard]

My take... The weakest episode so far, but I still liked it. Mostly setup and character introductions. I wish they would have cut out the long Robert/Ser Barristan/Jamie scene and spent the time elsewhere.

This reminds me of how James Hibberd's episode 3 recap on EW starts. The author says he liked this the least of the 6 episodes he saw and his friend (that's watching on TV) said it was his favorite this far. Both gave the same argument why, "there's tons of character development".

I'm the kind of person his friend is and I thought the scene you wanted to take out was one of the best scenes this far, all categories. I think the strengths of the book series do not lie with the plot (although it's fantastic) but rather with the characters and scenes like that are what brings the show closer to what the book can do in that regard. I. my opinion of course.

Just fun to see how greatly opinions can differ while still liking it. :)

[kuroishi]

I'm firmly on the "best episode yet" side of the discussion. :)

I liked that they spent more time with a few characters in order to flesh them out and let some others a bit on the side. If they continue in this direction, fleshing out different characters in each episode, I could see it working very well as a series.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Easily my favorite episode of the season. I felt like we were finally finished being introduced to the characters and finally beginning each of the character arcs. I had alot of fun watching this one.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Easily my favorite episode of the season. I felt like we were finally finished being introduced to the characters and finally beginning each of the character arcs. I had alot of fun watching this one.

[valacirca]

I gave this a 6 after giving the first episode an 8 and the second episode a 9. So suffice to say, I'm not a fan of this one. I felt that they took a few too many liberties with the story compared to the book that the differences felt jarring as opposed to the subtle way it was handled in the first two episodes.

I was especially not that keen on how they rearranged Cat/Ned's arrival at King's Landing and how they met and everything related to that. Lots of iffy changes with the events at The Wall as well. Tyrion had quite some good lines and moments in the part of the book that this episode covered, but I didn't feel like he shined in the same way here.

Also, I was extremely disappointed with the portrayal of Littlefinger, which felt incredibly flat and not remotely as colorful and witty as I imagined him to be.

Loved all of the scenes with Arya and that scene with Robert was superb as well. And that "oh shit, my baby girl is going to battle" look that Ned had at the end of the episode after he started amused... that was perfect.

[Eponine]

4. I did the opposite of the hardcore fan of the books for whom the show will never be good enough because it won't be exactly like the books. All the enjoyment that I got out of this episode is because of the books - I can't resist the chance to see scenes reenacted, some of them quite well. However, as a TV show, I feel that it's way below HBO's best work and if I wasn't a fan of the books and the board, but were coming to the show unfamiliar with the story, after this episode, I'd be thinking "this really isn't for me".

[Kalbear]

What's odd with him being in his bedchamber? Seems like the most natural place to get away from everything, save leaving the castle. Short way to the bed when you've gotten too drunk as well.

Was that his bedchamber? I had no idea. It just seemed odd. I don't know why Robert's there, I don't know why anyone else is there, why is he just hanging out, etc. They did that a couple times this ep - with Dany getting off her horse because in the next scene she needs to be in an open area, and with Robert hanging out in a room because he needs to be talking to just his KG.

It struck me as odd, and I noticed it - and that is probably the worst crime, being noticed.

[thistlepong]

I'm relatively new to both the books and the forum. This episode diverged from the source material more than the previous two, but I think the changes were effective and acceptable. My wife, who has no experience with the story, really liked this one where she struggled with 01 and 02. I found it entertaining enough to warrant an 8.

[madking]

Saw it last night and I loved it! Great shots of castle black and life at the wall, we see more of kings landing, and finally meet littlefinger and varys. The last scene with arya and syrio training was just the icing on the cake. I give the first ep a 6 the second a 7 and this one an 8

[Ser Warpechowski]

Easily my favorite episode of the season. I felt like we were finally finished being introduced to the characters and finally beginning each of the character arcs. I had alot of fun watching this one.

Agreed. I think this was the best. At least now they spent more than a few seconds at each scene, where in the previous episodes everything was too rushed. Now they took some time to develop the characters, spend some time on quality dialogue and there were some very good scenes, specially Old Nan´s scene (IMHO the best scene of the episode) and Syrio Forel. It was a character development episode, and those are my favorites.

I mean, just look how much time they spent on the scene the assassin tries to kill Bran: there should be more tension and more time developed to it. In episode 3 they gave some scenes its proper time (like Tyrion talk with Mormont, Old Nan, Ned talking with Arya, King Robert scene.

The aditional scenes dont bother me as much. For example, in the books we get to know much about Robert through Ned´s memories, yet they arent in the show. An aditional scene to show him how bad ass he was/is looks proper to me.

I just wished they had added a flashback scene to the end, where Ned looks Arya and starts to hear battle sounds. Just wish he could remember something awesome.

[Sancho]

I have to disagree with most posters in that I am beginning to fear that the show is being bungled. As much as I love George R.R. Martin's books, at this point it is not even close to truly great TV like Madmen and Breaking Bad.

This episode once again felt like a montage of short scenes depicting important moments and overloaded with expository dialogue. Character "development" consists of discrete "snapshot" scenes where a character suddenly changes from one scene to the next. For example, in one scene Jon Snow beats up on the other Watch recruits and is generally hated. In the next, Tyrion lectures Jon and in the following one Jon is already giving pointers to the other recruits. It's even worse for Danny who's relationship with Drogo and the Dothraki evolves in a choppy and unnatural manner. The reason for this is that we are not given any breather scenes to immerse us into the lives of the characters. We are told that characters evolve and are even given a reason as to why and how, but it just doesn't feel right. We simply have no time to let it sink in. On top of it, the editing in this episode was atrocious as the story jumped from place to place every few minutes. If at least we could spend a consecutive twenty minutes with Jon or with Dany or with Cat, we might have more time to empathize with them.

These have been problems in large parts of earlier episodes as well, but I kept hoping that once the initial character introductions were done with, the show would settle into a better narrative pace. With this third episode, I am starting to fear that the show's writers and directors are just not able to handle the huge numbers of characters and locations that the story needs to keep track of. The frustrating part is that some scenes were truly impressive and demonstrated the potential for greatness that this show could achieve. But I fear that maybe 10 episodes per book is simply not enough. In order for the viewer to care about the various plot twists, he/she must first care for the characters and I am not sure that a non-fan of the book will at this point. That being said, I continue to look forward to seeing a great story play out on screen, and am crossing my fingers that things will fall into place. I would hate to see the show canceled after the second season.

Conclusion: 5/10 for this week's entry

[Mistral]

I gave this one a 9, and it is definitely my favourite so far. Very interesting how it seems to be polarising folk.

I found this one a delight from start to finish; it felt meaty and flavoursome and 'done' in a way that the first two weren't. They seemed choppy and a little awkward to me - lots of nice ingredients thrown into a pot of water but not yet cooked enough to eat. In episode 3 the stew has thickened and the flavours are starting to mingle, and it is clear now that this is going to be delicious. End of dodgy metaphor :leaving:

All of the actors seemed more comfortable in their roles, I thought. Tyrion was pitch-perfect, where the previous week I found him a little grating, and Jon's previously immobile face hinted at the promise of expressions to come. Cersei is really growing on me. Ned and Arya went from great to amazing - I could really feel how out of place Ned was as soon as he arrived in King's Landing. Varys was good, and I liked Gillen's performance as Littlefinger.

Standout scenes for me: Tyrion, Yoren and Benjen jawing away in Castle Black; Arya and Syrio; Robert/Barristan/Jaime (I loved that scene, and why shouldn't the king be sitting having a drink and a yak and a good old reminisce?)

So yeah, loved it. I really feel the series hit its stride with this episode, and I feel a lot more confident now in looking forward to the rest of it.

[Eponine]

Character "development" consists of discrete "snapshot" scenes where a character suddenly changes from one scene to the next. For example, in one scene Jon Snow beats up on the other Watch recruits and is generally hated. In the next, Tyrion lectures Jon and in the following one Jon is already giving pointers to the other recruits.

This isn't a change or a condensing of the book. After Donal Noye gives Jon a similar lecture, his entire reaction is "suddenly he felt ashamed and guilty", then he runs around in happiness that Bran will live, then he apologizes to Grenn in the dining hall and insults Alister Thorne. Next chapter, all the boys who become his sidekicks have completely forgiven him already and he's become their leader to the point that he can convince them to be nice to Sam. He's never shown having the slightest bit of difficulty winning any of them over.

I think that one of the reasons that Jon appears to never have to bear the full consequences of anything (besides that he doesn't) is because he's not very internally reflective. It's taken for granted that he changed from being a bully to a leader in one moment and then he never reflects on his past actions again.

[Sancho]

This isn't a change or a condensing of the book. After Donal Noye gives Jon a similar lecture, his entire reaction is "suddenly he felt ashamed and guilty", then he runs around in happiness that Bran will live, then he apologizes to Grenn in the dining hall and insults Alister Thorne. Next chapter, all the boys who become his sidekicks have completely forgiven him already and he's become their leader to the point that he can convince them to be nice to Sam. He's never shown having the slightest bit of difficulty winning any of them over.

I think that one of the reasons that Jon appears to never have to bear the full consequences of anything (besides that he doesn't) is because he's not very internally reflective. It's taken for granted that he changed from being a bully to a leader in one moment and then he never reflects on his past actions again.

You may be right. But my issue is not with whether the depiction is true to the presentation in the book. A TV series is a different medium and character development on a printed page does not always translate well into a visual format. A book is inherently a medium where you use your imagination to fill in holes, so when a chapter ends on one note and the next begins with a changed situation, your mind fills in the gap. This is very tricky to pull off on TV. Issues of the passage of time arise. Maybe some establishing shots of life on the Wall might have helped? Maybe some scenes at the dinner table? Maybe the recruits giving some dirty looks to Jon? In short, a way to make us truly experience what he feels and establish that an adequate amount of time has passed. My complaint is basically that the pacing of the series so far is way too fast and inconsistent. Something as small as better editing, without changing anything else, could make it much better.

[arrowfan]

Gave this one a 9/10... probably more than it deserves, but the scenes at the wall and a few others were so cool. Also the story seems to be settling in for me. While the adaptation is clearly the weakest aspect of the HBO series, it's still pretty good.

The only scene I did not like in this ep was the conversation between Robert and Jaime (where Robert outwardly chastises him). It just seemed a bit over the top. It does present an interesting angle though (ie, Robert really wasn't a good king and kind of arrogant as well).

Fav scenes - all the stuff at the wall. I was worried about the actor for Jon (as were some others) but I have to say he's stealing every scene he's in for me. Also the odd friendship Jon has with Tyrion came off well.

Was wondering how they would end this ep... the fade out of Ned watching Arya sword training with Syrio was pretty good. At first he's bemused and a little proud, but then seems to have some misgivings.

Bad-ass award goes to Joggo (was that him?) for neck-whip-lasso-ing Viserys!

Overall, great stuff.

Edited May 3, 2011 by arrowfan

[johnny]

You may be right. But my issue is not with whether the depiction is true to the presentation in the book. A TV series is a different medium and character development on a printed page does not always translate well into a visual format. A book is inherently a medium where you use your imagination to fill in holes, so when a chapter ends on one note and the next begins with a changed situation, your mind fills in the gap. This is very tricky to pull off on TV. Issues of the passage of time arise. Maybe some establishing shots of life on the Wall might have helped? Maybe some scenes at the dinner table? Maybe the recruits giving some dirty looks to Jon? In short, a way to make us truly experience what he feels and establish that an adequate amount of time has passed. My complaint is basically that the pacing of the series so far is way too fast and inconsistent. Something as small as better editing, without changing anything else, could make it much better.

I pretty much agree with you. The show just isn't working for me. I don't think this book translates well to the screen, at least not in these short 1 hour episodes. There's too many characters, and way too much going on in the book to be covered. Everything feels awkward and forced. The tone of the story and characters change at the drop of a hat. One minute the characters are jovial and happy , the next minute girls are getting raped, kids are thrown out of windows, political conspiracies arise, and there's very little development in between. It's like you said, there's just not enough time for us to get to know these characters and become invested, and build up to those dramatic moments.

Plus there was a lot of pointless dialogue in this episode, such as between the King and Jaime. What was that all about?? And there was that scene with Tyrion and what's-his-face. Did we really need these long, pointless dialogue scenes? Like you said, there's way too much exposition going on. It's not necessary to fill the audience in on every bit of back history. And there are more subtle ways to tell that part of the story. I thought they handled it pretty well in the first episode, but it's been downhill since then.

I'm also disappointed in some of the set pieces. King's landing is terrible. It looks like tiny, cheap castle rather then a big city. Everything is so clean looking. I know they are on a budget, but couldn't they have added some special effects or something to make it look more believable?? And what's up with the Dothraki? Why do horse people look like they've never seen dirt in their lives? The fake spray-tans and hair gel doesn't help either. Winterwell and the wall look pretty fantastic though.

The bright side of this episode was Tyrion and Arya. I can definitely see them becoming my favorite characters in the show. I like Jon as well.

Edited May 3, 2011 by johnny

[arrowfan]

I'm also disappointed in some of the set pieces. King's landing is terrible. It looks like tiny, cheap castle rather then a big city. Everything is so clean looking.

Winterwell and the wall look pretty fantastic though.

Totally agree on KL being too clean. It's supposed to be a dump! But of course, all the scenes so far have been in the Red Keep, so it's cleanliness can be forgiven. But yea KL doesn't feel monsterous as it should.

The wall is probably the most spot on of all. Its pretty much exactly as I picture it. I especially like the scene where Jon is looking over the edge... snow covered forest, vast scale, strong snowy wind blowing across. Perfect.

[The Anti-Targ]

7 from me. Good bits and bad bits IMO with the good outweighing the bad.

Seeing Syrio was great, and the interplay with Arya wonderful. Didn't much like how things went across the narrow sea. I liked what they did at the Wall given the constraints. Though I thought some of the scripting could have been done better. And not having steamy breath on the wall when they did it well for the prologue was disappointing.

I thought all the scenes with Ned, Sansa and Arya worked well. Was less impressed with Littlefinger's characterisation than I thought I'd be, but could be having too high expectations in the first place.

Renly might as well not have ben at the small council.

I like Varys so far.

Didn't really dig the Bob, Selmy, Jaime scene. I did like the Ned, Jaime scene in the throne room.

So yeah, too many negatives to give an 8, but a solid show none-the-less.