Poll: How would you rate Episode 103?

[Ser Warpechowski]

I pretty much agree with you. The show just isn't working for me. I don't think this book translates well to the screen, at least not in these short 1 hour episodes. There's too many characters, and way too much going on in the book to be covered. Everything feels awkward and forced. The tone of the story and characters change at the drop of a hat. One minute the characters are jovial and happy , the next minute girls are getting raped, kids are thrown out of windows, political conspiracies arise, and there's very little development in between. It's like you said, there's just not enough time for us to get to know these characters and become invested, and build up to those dramatic moments.

Plus there was a lot of pointless dialogue in this episode, such as between the King and Jaime. What was that all about?? And there was that scene with Tyrion and what's-his-face. Did we really need these long, pointless dialogue scenes? Like you said, there's way too much exposition going on. It's not necessary to fill the audience in on every bit of back history. And there are more subtle ways to tell that part of the story. I thought they handled it pretty well in the first episode, but it's been downhill since then.

I'm also disappointed in some of the set pieces. King's landing is terrible. It looks like tiny, cheap castle rather then a big city. Everything is so clean looking. I know they are on a budget, but couldn't they have added some special effects or something to make it look more believable?? And what's up with the Dothraki? Why do horse people look like they've never seen dirt in their lives? The fake spray-tans and hair gel doesn't help either. Winterwell and the wall look pretty fantastic though.

The bright side of this episode was Tyrion and Arya. I can definitely see them becoming my favorite characters in the show. I like Jon as well.

I wanted a better adaptation but now I see it would take 30 hours, not 10 hours to properly do it.

Now Im just enjoying the ride: the tv series is a diferent entity from the books and at least now we can see some of our beloved scenes in action. We wont be able to see all the good parts from the book but at least a few of them will be done properly.

[valacirca]

...it is not even close to truly great TV like Madmen and Breaking Bad.

...we are not given any breather scenes to immerse us into the lives of the characters. We are told that characters evolve and are even given a reason as to why and how, but it just doesn't feel right. We simply have no time to let it sink in.

...there's just not enough time for us to get to know these characters and become invested, and build up to those dramatic moments.

...there's way too much exposition going on.

First of all, there's no sense comparing TV shows written for TV with TV shows adapted from a book. The latter will always be at a disadvantage.

With Game of Thrones, I feel like a big part of what makes the books memorable and popular is the depth of reason and motivation given for the character's actions. There's a lot of emotional depth and complexity in the books, which is something the TV series will just not be capable of delving into in the same way given the restraints inherent to the medium. Thus, they have to instead sensationalize a lot of the scenes that Martin worked very hard to de-sensationalize... it feels almost antithetic to the spirit of the books in many places to me.

To put it another way, I always felt like Martin was saying "here's a very drastic sort of event common to a fantasy story, and now here are the complex human emotions and cultural/social reasons as to why this event occurs within this setting."

That being said, I am still enjoying the series for what it is so far. It's certainly not going to cover the breadth of the different dimensions to the characters and the story nearly as well as the book does. It's like an extended summary/outline of the book because that's the only thing the medium can accommodate, but it's an enjoyable viewing experience so far.

[Daenerys]

Episode poll ratings (minimum 100 votes, top and bottom 5% thrown out):

Episode 1 "Winter Is Coming" - 7.8

Episode 2 "The Kingsroad" - 8.2

Episode 3 "Lord Snow" - 7.9

Overall series average - 8.0

EDIT: recalculated for more votes, score dropped slightly.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Daenerys

[Tywin's bastard]

And not having steamy breath on the wall when they did it well for the prologue was disappointing.

This is backwards. There were no steamy breaths in the prologue but there were on the Wall in this episode (most visible when Jon speaks to Tyrion on the top of the Wall).

[warriorbard63]

I've read the books twice through, and have loved Martin's work for years. This HBO series is fast becoming my favorite television program ever. The quality is all I've come to expect from HBO. The casting is impeccable and I'm loving every minute. It couldn't be done in a movie, but this series is fantastic. Its true that some details will have to be skipped or glanced over. Translating from book to screen is like that. But the heart of the story, the deep, well rounded characters that we love and hate, are all there. Thank you Mr. Martin and HBO. Job well done.

[flyingwind66]

6/10

very fast moving and, though this may sound a bit weird, it didn't really feel like much happened in this episode

this episode more than anything just felt like 'setup' I'm much looking forward to the next episode ^-^

[Sancho]

First of all, there's no sense comparing TV shows written for TV with TV shows adapted from a book. The latter will always be at a disadvantage.

It is true that adapting a book into TV is usually more challenging than writing a new series from scratch as you have to modify it in such a way as to make it work visually in a serial of limited duration while still retaining the spirit and narrative of the original work (which was itself not written with such an adaptation in mind).

However, the average viewer will not care about whether a series is adapted from a book or not. In the end, a TV series must stand on its own apart from the original work. And by that measure (and as much as I personally enjoy watching it) so far HBO's Game of Thrones does not match up to other great contemporary shows.

[Sancho]

I pretty much agree with you. The show just isn't working for me. I don't think this book translates well to the screen, at least not in these short 1 hour episodes. There's too many characters, and way too much going on in the book to be covered. Everything feels awkward and forced. The tone of the story and characters change at the drop of a hat. One minute the characters are jovial and happy , the next minute girls are getting raped, kids are thrown out of windows, political conspiracies arise, and there's very little development in between. It's like you said, there's just not enough time for us to get to know these characters and become invested, and build up to those dramatic moments.

Plus there was a lot of pointless dialogue in this episode, such as between the King and Jaime. What was that all about?? And there was that scene with Tyrion and what's-his-face. Did we really need these long, pointless dialogue scenes? Like you said, there's way too much exposition going on. It's not necessary to fill the audience in on every bit of back history. And there are more subtle ways to tell that part of the story. I thought they handled it pretty well in the first episode, but it's been downhill since then.

I'm also disappointed in some of the set pieces. King's landing is terrible. It looks like tiny, cheap castle rather then a big city. Everything is so clean looking. I know they are on a budget, but couldn't they have added some special effects or something to make it look more believable?? And what's up with the Dothraki? Why do horse people look like they've never seen dirt in their lives? The fake spray-tans and hair gel doesn't help either. Winterwell and the wall look pretty fantastic though.

The bright side of this episode was Tyrion and Arya. I can definitely see them becoming my favorite characters in the show. I like Jon as well.

Agreed for the Dothraki. They're really not doing it for me. They look and act very contemporary and not very nomad-like. As for King's Landing, yeah it does seem to lack scale and authenticity but I don't really mind it that much. It's still a TV series and I don't expect blockbuster-like realism as long as we get good writing and direction.

[Lady Blackfish]

IMO this was the weakest of the three episodes so far, and I don't buy the idea being shilled around that people who didn't like it prefer action to character development. I love character development more than chocolate, and as for action, ASOS is my least favorite book of the series while I adore AFFC, flaws and all.

It was just way too choppy. I agree with Sancho, there's a notable difference in quality between this show and something like Mad Men, at least if episode three is to be taken as an example. It's good, don't get me wrong, there are watchable actors and fun lines and nice scenery and of course a very interesting plot, but I think the show could achieve so much more if they just tried to apply more thematic cohesion to each episode unit. This show is fun and involving, but it has the potential to be much better than it is, given the source material.

Another thing I agree with Sancho on: the dialog is so expository, and I think it's beginning to lose its justification. I think with a more artistic bent the show could be confident in communicating more with less. When I watch a show like Mad Men I delight in being able to observe things for myself, and I love that Matt Weiner gives me credit for the intelligence to figure things out. While watching this episode it struck me what a lack of subtlety there is, which diminishes my perception of richness.

I thought a number of the actors were a bit awkward, Aiden Gillen and Michelle Fairley in particular. There were some changes I couldn't really discern the purpose behind, like Renly's seeming friendship with Ned, Joffrey's entire characterization in the episode, etc. I gave this episode a 6 and probably would've rated it lower if not for the fact that I really want to love this show with all my fanatical being, and that I enjoyed two scenes near the end a whole lot: Benjen, Yoren and Tyrion, and then Arya's training with Syrio Forel. All three episodes so far have had good endings, IMO, I just wish the rest of the episode didn't feel like "This happened and then this and then this" until it was time to end it.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Lady Blackfish

[DecoyRunner]

Getting better imo. Starting to get a sense of the enormity of the task ahead of the producers. I know it seems a little disjointed; they're still finding their feet. It was tough to get into at first, but as they add characters it starts to get really interesting for me.

The Dothraki accent is annoying me sometimes.

I knew Peter Dinklage wouldn't let me down. But does anyone else think the cast in general is a little old? Are characters ages specifically mentioned anywhere in the books? Cersei especially seems at least ten years older than I imagined, but I struggle with the timeline of Robert's rise to power and reign leading into GOT, so maybe I'm just bad with numbers.

Also, How cool was Syrio?!?! He's a bad ass mofo. I pictured him older and skinnier but def not disappointed.

Edited May 5, 2011 by DecoyRunner

[Tywin's bastard]

I knew Peter Dinklage wouldn't let me down. But does anyone else think the cast in general is a little old? Are characters ages specifically mentioned anywhere in the books? Cersei especially seems at least ten years older than I imagined, but I struggle with the timeline of Robert's rise to power and reign leading into GOT, so maybe I'm just bad with numbers.

Pretty much every character is aged up on purpose. They didn't want the children to be quite as young as they are in the books, something GRRM himself wishes he had done differently (now that his planned 5 year leap didn't work).

[Mexal]

My favorite episode so far. It was a bit slower which I appreciated, especially the 2nd half of the episode. Good stuff.

[ExLibris]

I loved it, definitely a 9/10.

Though the story itself did not really progress, the episode still flew by to me. I was shocked when I was reveling in the awesomeness of Syrio Forel and then the episode ended; especially loved the foreshadowing as Ned watched Arya dual with the wooden swords but heard the clangor of steel ones.

Thought the scenes at the Wall were excellent, especially as Jon beat the shit out of everyone. :whip: Tyrion of course continues to do a crackerjack job, though I was disappointed that they had him tease Benjen about the Night's Watch instead of taunting Ser Alliser Thorne with a crab fork.

Viserys getting owned speaks for itself, of course. :box:

[johnnysd]

You may be right. But my issue is not with whether the depiction is true to the presentation in the book. A TV series is a different medium and character development on a printed page does not always translate well into a visual format. A book is inherently a medium where you use your imagination to fill in holes, so when a chapter ends on one note and the next begins with a changed situation, your mind fills in the gap. This is very tricky to pull off on TV. Issues of the passage of time arise. Maybe some establishing shots of life on the Wall might have helped? Maybe some scenes at the dinner table? Maybe the recruits giving some dirty looks to Jon? In short, a way to make us truly experience what he feels and establish that an adequate amount of time has passed. My complaint is basically that the pacing of the series so far is way too fast and inconsistent. Something as small as better editing, without changing anything else, could make it much better.

It is interesting when I see this reaction from hard core book fans, because there are a lot of people watching at work and none of them would agree with you. They all love the pacing.

[TWEEDIE]

I gave it an 8. Episode 2 was more exciting and dramatic but I enjoyed episode 3 for adding depth to the story. I was disappointed however, both with the absence of the direwolves (shots of Ghost with Jon Snow arriving at the Wall would have been nice), and the absence of any scenes with Tyrion and Ser Alliser Thorne because the verbal interplay and general antagonism between them in the book were often hilarious. Also, the omission of another scene at the common hall at the Wall was also disappointing, where everyone erupts in laughter when Jon Snow accepts and scorns Ser Alliser Thorne's wager that he (Ser Alliser) have an easier time teaching a wolf to juggle than he (Jon) would have training the recruits. Even the ravens in the rafters were laughing, as I recall, and I suppose the scene was omitted because of the difficulties showing this onscreen...

But minor quibbles. I'm really enjoying the series and roll on episode 4!

[Daenerys]

[sorry, posted in wrong forum, please delete]

Edited May 9, 2011 by Daenerys