Westeros Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Just two days away from Episode 3, titled “Lord Snow”, and HBO has set out some excerpts from the epsiode to whet the appetite. First up is Jon Snow training at Castle Black with his future sworn brothers, followed by an excellent scene between Jaime and Eddard that has certain resonances for events at the end of Robert’s Rebellion. Enjoy!read on >>>Visit the Site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
End of Disc One Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 What does Ned say at the end of that last one? "You served him well" what? Damn British accents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 "You served him well... when serving was safe"Edit: What exactly does Jon do to Pyp to make him fall like that? Edit2: I think he hits him in the chest with his sword, but it looks like he's headbutting him from about a foot away. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Oh, good stuff, good stuff, thanks! Two things really struck me--that line that Jon 'seems to be the least useless person here.' hahahaha, gotta remember that, best-worst compliment ever. And...the look in Jaime's eyes when Ned rejects his explanation for having killed the mad king. NCW's expression changes so subtly, but its like you can see the hurt--Jaime really wants Ned to understand, wants someone to understand, why he did what he did--especially Ned. It hurts him that no one does, but he's too arrogant and cocky to admit it. Lovely stuff, can't wait for Sunday! :fencing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renly Baratheon Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Can someone post these to youtube Can't see them here in Canada beyond the Wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitscralt Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 It looks like they threw together another scene just to get NCW on the screen in a book chapter that he's absent from and continue to push Jaime as a villain. It's going to be disappointing if they keep doing that. All of the HBO Behind the Scenes and Trailers described the show as being all about the multidimensional, grey-shaded characters. Yet they keep making Jaime do and say things that does not fit his laid back persona in the book, just to make him seem despicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Can someone post these to youtube Can't see them here in Canada beyond the WallI'm sure someone will put them on youtube (I don't know how, sorry...), but are we sure that y'all up there beyond the Wall aren't Wildlings or, well, worse? :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 It looks like they threw together another scene just to get NCW on the screen in a book chapter that he's absent from and continue to push Jaime as a villain. It's going to be disappointing if they keep doing that. All of the HBO Behind the Scenes and Trailers described the show as being all about the multidimensional, grey-shaded characters. Yet they keep making Jaime do and say things that does not fit his laid back persona in the book, just to make him seem despicable.Wow, that wasn't my read at all. Jaime in this scene isn't villainous or despicable at all, IMHO. Just the opposite, he's explaining to Ned in great detail just how horribly Ned's father and brother were dying, screaming and burning alive while 500 men stood around watching and doing nothing, and while the mad kind was laughing. He tells Ned how brave his brother and father were, and says rather quietly (about killing the king) 'It seemed like justice.' He's looking intently at Ned throughout and it seems to me he's sincerely trying to make Ned understand why he did what he did, that he's truly seeking Ned's respect. I thought it a wonderful scene, wonderful in that it did indeed add greyness to the black and villainous Jaime who threw a little boy out a tower window just to protect himself and his bitch sister. My two cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitscralt Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Wow, that wasn't my read at all. Jaime in this scene isn't villainous or despicable at all, IMHO. Just the opposite, he's explaining to Ned in great detail just how horribly Ned's father and brother were dying, screaming and burning alive while 500 men stood around watching and doing nothing, and while the mad kind was laughing. He tells Ned how brave his brother and father were, and says rather quietly (about killing the king) 'It seemed like justice.' He's looking intently at Ned throughout and it seems to me he's sincerely trying to make Ned understand why he did what he did, that he's truly seeking Ned's respect. I thought it a wonderful scene, wonderful in that it did indeed add greyness to the black and villainous Jaime who threw a little boy out a tower window just to protect himself and his bitch sister. My two cents...Jaime mentioning that 'everything was quiet...' -pause- '...except for the screaming' came off as salt in a wound to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Jaime mentioning that 'everything was quiet...' -pause- '...except for the screaming' came off as salt in a wound to me.Different takes on the same scene, obviously. To me, that sounded like he was trying to convey the unspeakable horror of it, trying to convey to the very man that he most wants understanding from, that 'Yes, I broke my oath, but you weren't there, you didn't see and hear what I saw and heard.' And then... 'It seemed like justice.' And NCW's eyes aren't gloating, aren't smirking, aren't enjoying repeating these horrors--he's looking intensely at Ned as though trying to make him see what he, Jaime, saw and felt at the time, why he did what he did. As grey as it gets, IMO.This is the glory of this story. Two bright people can see the same scene, hear the same words, and walk away with very different takes on the meaning. :cheers:Add: It also seems to me, and always has ever since I first read the details of Jaime's killing of the mad king, that Jaime did show a kind of honor there. He did what had to be done, no matter the cost to himself and his reputation-- he slew a mad monster, in defiance of his oath to protect that monster. Its the one part in all Ned's long and honorable life that I would argue he's very wrong about. I guess I see it in the same light as the actions of Field Marshall Rommel, a brilliant and loyal 'warrior' ultimately taking part in trying to kill Hitler, to whom he owed all fealty. When your 'king' has become a mad monster, does your oath to protect him over-ride your personal responsibility to humanity as a whole? Grey, grey, grey... [/rambling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Clegane_1750 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 What does Ned say at the end of that last one? "You served him well" what? Damn British accents.They are taking a few liberties with the script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Clegane_1750 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Excellent post mate...and will we see our portly little Samwell Tarley? Nine Hells.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Excellent post mate...and will we see our portly little Samwell Tarley? Nine Hells..Welcome, Gregor. A note, who are you replying to? When you want to reply to a particular post, click the 'reply' at the bottom right of that person's post, then we can see what they said and what you said in reply.Nine hells? Hmmm, I may be wrong (I am, a lot) but isn't it seven hells? Seven gods, seven hells? Whatever. Welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalfiatach Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Wow, that wasn't my read at all. Jaime in this scene isn't villainous or despicable at all, IMHO. Just the opposite, he's explaining to Ned in great detail just how horribly Ned's father and brother were dying, screaming and burning alive while 500 men stood around watching and doing nothing, and while the mad kind was laughing. He tells Ned how brave his brother and father were, and says rather quietly (about killing the king) 'It seemed like justice.' He's looking intently at Ned throughout and it seems to me he's sincerely trying to make Ned understand why he did what he did, that he's truly seeking Ned's respect. I thought it a wonderful scene, wonderful in that it did indeed add greyness to the black and villainous Jaime who threw a little boy out a tower window just to protect himself and his bitch sister. My two cents...I thought that clip was brilliant - just as you say it seemed to me that Jamie was trying to make Ned understand why he did what he did and that he really isn't some heartless arrogant "Kingslayer" - but Ned just can't get past Jamie breaking his oath. Even though Ned and Robert rebelled in the first place (breaking their oaths to the rightful king!) cos they knew Aerys was a brutal monster!I never understood in the books why Ned and Robert especially would have had such a problem with Jaime, given the whole fate of the other 3 Starks that kicked off the Rebellion in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I don't think Jaime comes across that well in that clip, sure he doesn't come across completely bad, but he doesn't come across that well either.His whole "stern northern leadership" was clearly an attempt at mockery. And he brought up the whole Aerys incident not to justify himself but to wound Ned. Because Ned never brought it up. It was only when Ned respond to him that he just watched and did nothing did he start justifying himself with "500 knights all watched", and then remind Ned that he killed Aerys because Aerys deserved to die. But Ned gets the last word that Jaime killed Aerys when KL was about to get sacked and there would be no harm that would come to him for the act, and not when there would have risks involved. Which Ned is completely right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lynx Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I thought that clip was brilliant - just as you say it seemed to me that Jamie was trying to make Ned understand why he did what he did and that he really isn't some heartless arrogant "Kingslayer" - but Ned just can't get past Jamie breaking his oath. Even though Ned and Robert rebelled in the first place (breaking their oaths to the rightful king!) cos they knew Aerys was a brutal monster!I never understood in the books why Ned and Robert especially would have had such a problem with Jaime, given the whole fate of the other 3 Starks that kicked off the Rebellion in the first place.Ned has always seen Jaime as a tool for Tywin who sat on his ass during most of the rebellion and sacked King's Landing when he saw that the rebels would win the war. Hence, Ned's line "You served him well...when it was safe". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lynx Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I think this clip is really good with so many layers. Even if I don't like Jaime in the books you can see how uncertain he is around Ned, at the same time mocking him and trying to get respect from him.You could say that the timing of Jaime's slaying of Aerys was not the optimal for Jaime's and Ned's relationship..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Actually, I understood the clip that Ned is only condemning Jaime for killing Aerys from behind (which is a stupid change in my opinion - Aerys would have had no chance to defend himself against a knight of the KG, if he was attacked from the front, as he was in the book) when it was safe to do so. Isn't that what is meant by 'You served him when it was safe' means?Then Ned might actually have wanted Jaime to act against Aerys back then when he and 500 other people watched the Starks die. Killing Aerys minutes before he would have caught/killed anyway was dishonorable for everyone. Just as Tywin's betrayal of Aerys was dishonorable, something that was worthy of a Frey. I really missed here Ned's rigid POV that a knight of the Kingsguard is never allowed to betray the King he has sworn to protect. Never, under no circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 "You served him well, when serving was safe," is pretty much the same Ned. Jaime should have defended Aerys to the utmost. He swore a vow, and he broke it.His wondering about Jaime holding his tongue is, of course, interesting. This may be a Ned that would have thought that at the very least, some decent man might have objected, might have tried to reason with Aerys to dissuade him from his path of madness that brought war on the realm, and (ultimately) ruin on House Targaryen ... the sort of thing the Kingsguard might at least notionally see as something they'd try to protect the Targaryens from.But stabbing Aerys in craven fashion doesn't say much good about Jaime, and killing him at all definitely says nothing good, as far as Ned is concerned.I wonder if they've read George response when asked about the Kingslaying -- whether Jaime should be praised or abhored for it. And he said some lords would feel a bit of both, glad he did it, but disgusted that he was a sworn brother of the Kingsguard who could contemplate shattering his vows in such a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Isn't that not actually also Ned's POV in the books? Even Ned knew that someone had to kill Aerys, and as a Stark he would have done it himself, but cannot accept that a KG betrays his oath to do that - also due to the fact that he does his own killing (and thus also his own dirty work, at least to a degree).Oh, and by the way, is the whole business about the Iron Throne becoming a topic in the series as well? Ned and Jaime's confrontation back then with Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne would explain the tension between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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