Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Kat

[BOOK SPOILERS] EP103 Discussion II

Recommended Posts

Other thread approaching post limit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot believe no one in this thread has wondered yet why Ghost wasn't in this episode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot believe no one in this thread has wondered yet why Ghost wasn't in this episode.

Well this thread only had one post before you posted... There has been plenty of people mentioning it in the other thread ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I think Lady is still alive. No Lannister has seen the dead body to verify the kill, and it's easy for the Northmen to bare false witness and produce fraudulent documentation. I think it's a conspiracy to make Nedbama look good and Lady escaped into the mountains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well this thread only had one post before you posted

But it had already been 45 minutes without this outrageous omission having been brought to our attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread (including the previous locked thread) has already gotten pretty long, so I'll try to give brief comments on the episode.

Overall: I loved this episode. I was lukewarm to the first episode, felt slightly better about the second episode, and then truly loved this one. There was a lot to set up early on (and that part of the story is kind of slow -- I always dread the early part of AGoT when doing a reread), but now I think the show is hitting its stride. I liked how episode 3 was powerful scene after powerful scene just like the books.

It would take a lot of thought and rewatching on my part to judge the show on its own merits because I am already so familiar with the story. I'll leave that to film experts and non-readers. I felt like the pacing was off at times, but I didn't care -- I was just enjoying the string of awesome scenes.

Lancel: why is everyone ripping on Lancel? I thought he was perfect. Unlike the actors playing Joffrey and Jaime (who are doing a good job embodying their characters), the actor playing Lancel actually looks like a Lannister. He isn't really portrayed as much more than a bumbling boy until Cersei makes him into a pseudo-Jaime.

Cersei/Joffrey: I have mixed feelings. I loved Cersei telling Joffrey he can make the truth -- that fits her perfectly. I didn't like Joffrey's standing army idea. That's far too brilliant and progressive for him. From the books, I think of him as the boy more interested in shooting rabbits than running a kingdom so having him planning out sweeping reforms to the kingdom years before he should expect to take the throne feels off.

Robert/Selmy/Jaime: Loved this scene. Great acting, great lines. I didn't think Robert was cruel or whiny. He's just a man built for warring and whoring who can't find a purpose in a time of peace.

Direwolves: Didn't really bother me. As seen in the assassin scene, the Joffrey/Nymeria scene, and Lady's execution, they'll show up when it's important to the plot.

Littlefinger: I agree with those that feel he's not coming across quite as slippery as he should, but he'll have more chances to shine later on.

Old Nan/Syrio/Jorah/Varys: awesome.

Ned's arrival in King's Landing: I thought it was weird that it wasn't explained when people arrived. From the previous episodes, I thought that Ned, Robert, and Jaime were traveling together, but Jaime and Robert seem to have arrived much earlier.

Dany/Viserys scene: the set up for this scene felt off. I feel they should have departed from the books further to set up Viserys' anger a little better.

Dothraki: I am really confused about how much Westerosi the handmaids/bloodriders can speak and how much Dothraki Jorah can speak, but I guess it really isn't that important.

Cat's travel: A "we will travel by boat and arrive as quickly as Lord Eddard" line would have made me feel better. I feel like the show hasn't given much sense of how big Westeros is -- it seems like it takes only a couple days to get from Winterfell to King's Landing.

Other awesome things: I liked more things in this episode, but I'd just be parroting things people have already said so I'll stop now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ned's arrival in King's Landing: I thought it was weird that it wasn't explained when people arrived. From the previous episodes, I thought that Ned, Robert, and Jaime were traveling together, but Jaime and Robert seem to have arrived much earlier.

Cat's travel: A "we will travel by boat and arrive as quickly as Lord Eddard" line would have made me feel better. I feel like the show hasn't given much sense of how big Westeros is -- it seems like it takes only a couple days to get from Winterfell to King's Landing.

Yeah, Jaime lounging in the Throne room when Ned arrived threw me for a loop too. As for travel times, I agree it could be a lot clearer, but I think Dany's pregnancy gives us some sense of how much time has passed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, Jaime lounging in the Throne room when Ned arrived threw me for a loop too. As for travel times, I agree it could be a lot clearer, but I think Dany's pregnancy gives us some sense of how much time has passed.

Got to agree with this. I was expecting Ned to go straight into business with Varys & Co. upon entering. Seeing Jaime there threw me off too. My first thought was "Isn't he still travelling on the kingsroad with the King's party to King's Landing?"

That face-off turned out to be a good scene though.

But the way that they almost completely overhauled how Cat/Ned arrived at King's Landing and how they met and everything related to that... that was my biggest gripe about E03.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I think Lady is still alive. No Lannister has seen the dead body to verify the kill, and it's easy for the Northmen to bare false witness and produce fraudulent documentation. I think it's a conspiracy to make Nedbama look good and Lady escaped into the mountains.

What real proof do we have anyway that Ned was born in the North? I heard he was raised in the Eyrie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What real proof do we have anyway that Ned was born in the North? I heard he was raised in the Eyrie.

Winterfell Clinic should release the long-form of Nedbama birth certificate, with Maester Luwen's signature. A simple announcement through the ravens can be faked so easily that it's not reliable.

I also hear the Nedbama once competed in the same tournament as Howland Ayers, a known terrorist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Winterfell Clinic should release the long-form of Nedbama birth certificate, with Maester Luwen's signature. A simple announcement through the ravens can be faked so easily that it's not reliable.

I also hear the Nedbama once competed in the same tournament as Howland Ayers, a known terrorist.

Tynald Lannistrump wont fall for any fake ass photomaged certificates!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Winterfell Clinic should release the long-form of Nedbama birth certificate, with Maester Luwen's signature. A simple announcement through the ravens can be faked so easily that it's not reliable.

I also hear the Nedbama once competed in the same tournament as Howland Ayers, a known terrorist.

Well I'm with Dornhald Traymp on this one. I think some of the terminology on the long form certificate smacks of the policitcal correctness of the post Targaryen era. Clearly this indicates the certificate was recently created and thus is prima facie evidence that no certificate was issues in Winterfell at the time of Nedbama's birth. And how convenient that the alleged father and elder brother are no longer alive to give credible testimony. The Lannisters have every reason to be very suspicious of Nedbama's origins and hence loyalty to the realm.

He obviously has sympathies towards the Targaryens, otherwise why would he be so dismissive of the risks of a Targ/Dothraki invasion and very critical of Bob's exceedingly sensible desire to send a death squad to take out Dany and Viserys? Very suspicious indeed.

ETA:

Tynald Lannistrump wont fall for any fake ass photomaged certificates!

You beat me to it! But there seems to be some dispute over the name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cersei/Joffrey: I have mixed feelings. I loved Cersei telling Joffrey he can make the truth -- that fits her perfectly. I didn't like Joffrey's standing army idea. That's far too brilliant and progressive for him. From the books, I think of him as the boy more interested in shooting rabbits than running a kingdom so having him planning out sweeping reforms to the kingdom years before he should expect to take the throne feels off.

That scene caught me to, would they even understand the concept of a 'standing army' in the given time period? But personally the way I see it, they were using a story telling technique to educate the uninitiated viewer. Like how a show/story will have a stupid character that needs things spelled out for him by the other characters, which serves the dual purpose filling in the audience on the back story as well. In this instance, Joffrey takes a very modern and meaningful stance on the military, which everyone in the audience will understand. Cersei's rebuttal on the other hand fills you in on exactly how a feudal system actually works. Since the TV series is going for a broader audience not everyone may understand what 'calling the banners' means.

As for Cersei's character, seems to me a lot of people are complaining about her being too smart, or too good at "the game". But might we not have our views tainted by AFfC's? Don't forget at this point her opponents are Robert and Ned, and she does handily defeat them. And while she's brutal at it in book 4, she also become quite unhinged from a combination of losing Joffrey and Maggie's prophesy, for which she mistakenly see's Margery as her usurper. So taking that into perspective I don't see anything that wrong with her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot believe no one in this thread has wondered yet why Ghost wasn't in this episode.

Hear here. Ghost is the coolest direwolf and an integral part of Jon's thread. Even though Ghost wasn't very central in this part of the story (even in the books) he should have been around.

My Bad-ass awards:

Rokarro (sorry sp) - for neck whip lasso-ing Viserys .... Shabang

Jon - looking cool beating off the wall whelps

Eddard - putting Littlefinger in his place up against the wall of the brothel, heh

Characters who continue to impress and exceed expectation:

Catelyn and Cersei

People haven't mentioned Eddard (Sean Bean) much here. What do you think? He's perfect, right? Suits the role well. Could do with a bit more emotional range... but no... that's Ned alright. Great stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An interesting effect of the Joffrey/Cersei scene that didn't occur to me at the time. I was reading the Television without Pity GoT thread for the unspoilered people. (I'm kind of addicted to it) and someone came up with the thought that Joff sent the assassin to Bran. The scene with Cersei made her realize that he doesn't think things through ... like sending an assassin with a highly recognizable dagger. So bravo D&D, because if Joff's entitled, rash mentality is what they were trying to emphasize, they done good. I was mostly focused on Cersei's characterization in that scene and I glossed over Joff's obvious brattiness.

(of course the poster had pretty much talked herself out of her 'Joff did it' theory at the end of her post, but a few others have picked it up)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

someone came up with the thought that Joff sent the assassin to Bran.

(of course the poster had pretty much talked herself out of her 'Joff did it' theory at the end of her post, but a few others have picked it up)

Yeah, and it wouldn't have made sense either because afaik, only Cersei and Jaime know the true nature of Bran's fall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, and it wouldn't have made sense either because afaik, only Cersei and Jaime know the true nature of Bran's fall.

Her original reasoning is that he wanted to frame Tyrion because he was upset that he slapped him, and Bran was (indirectly) the reason Tyrion slapped him so he had no qualms about killing him for his own ends. Not all the thoughts tied together well and some were even contradictory, but the instinct was good. The important thing was that she grasped what Joff was truly capable of and that he acts on impulse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Her original reasoning is that he wanted to frame Tyrion because he was upset that he slapped him, and Bran was (indirectly) the reason Tyrion slapped him so he had no qualms about killing him for his own ends. Not all the thoughts tied together well and some were even contradictory, but the instinct was good. The important thing was that she grasped what Joff was truly capable of and that he acts on impulse.

It will be interesting to see whether they change Joff's motivation for sending the assassin. The line that inspired Joff is never spoken on screen, and they haven't really portrayed Joff as craving the approval of king Bob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...