[Book Spoilers] EP104 Discussion

[Xenophon]

Ok, so after two fairly distracted viewings, I have mixed feeling about this episode. On the one hand, it had some good scenes, but it didn't feel at all thematically unified. I feel like I saw a bunch of things, but they didn't add up to anything more. All the other episodes packed an emotional punch, but this one left me cold. Anyone else feel this way?

A few random thoughts:

The dream sequence worked really well--that crow was creepy as hell.

I like how they're making Jaime and Thorne more sympathetic. No pure villains = good TV.

I liked Dany beating up Viserys, but did not like her bitching Jorah out about the slaves. WTF, girl?! You know why you're able to tell your brother off? Because you're married to the biggest slave-trader on the continent, that's why. And those chicks who do your hair and cook your food--they're slaves. Hypocrisy alert! I don't mind her disliking slavery and eventually coming to reject it completely, but at this point she's in no position to lecture Jorah on the issue.

[NW Deserter]

Whew, another five-minute hour! This post will be all over the place.

Last week, Ser Jorah stood out to me as a character who I first noticed was being portrayed brilliantly. This week, there are a whole slew of characters who came into their own...Jory, Pyp/Grenn, Sam, Ser Thorne, and Theon were all great.

Sam and Jon's friendship is being started very, very well. The table-cleaning scene was some great writing.

Dany's transformation since episode 1 has been extremely well-acted by Emilia Clarke.

Doreah/Viserys was an odd scene...I get why they did it, but it seemed to go on a bit long. And like someone else said, Viserys almost seemed charming until the end. Harry Lloyd continues to impress, though.

I critiqued Aiden Gillen last week, but I think I'm starting to understand TV-Littlefinger. It seems like they're making him way more of a clever sociopath than a witty, snarky guy, which I think I'm okay with.

I had hoped we'd see a lot more of the tournament, but I guess I'll have to wait.

Really happy that they found a way to include the three-eyed crow dream.

Awesome last scene, as expected!

As a whole, this was a strong episode. My one critique is that it might've been a bit too exposition-heavy.

Can't wait for next week!!!

[JaimeNotJamie]

i think it's necessary to plant a few sympathetic seeds early on in this medium. on tv you don't have the benefit of suddenly being thrust inside his head and getting to know him that way. when you think about it, he's just a giant dick in book 1, barely makes an appearance in book 2, and then we are suddenly thrust inside his head in book 3.

beat me to it, should have kept reading.

[Kat]

I liked this episode,

Get out of my head! I liked it too. Almost all of the pros and cons you listed are ones that I had as well. I laughed at the note about the tourney audience. I guess they couldn't CGI more people in (all the people in the street) or maybe the crowds are like, "Yawn, a tourney, we see this every year. Let's wait until the later rounds in the next episode." Sort of like Atlanta Braves fans in the playoffs. ;)

I thought this was a really strong episode, but not as good as the others.

Ultiumately, though, I liked this episode the most so far. Gave it a 9/10 (other episodes were 8, 7 and 8.) The exposition did not feel as heavy-handed as in the first episode, but, but....there was, indeed, a lot of it. The scene I felt was the most awkward was the one with Sansa and Septa Mordane. It could have been ok if it hadn't been quite as long as it was. Same with Jon & Sam scrubbing tables and talking about whores. But for a episode that contained so much exposition, I felt like the pacing and writing were quite good.

I really, really like Sam. Excellent casting. Pycelle is also good-- last week my father asked me, "Is that bumbling old guy in the capital going to turn out to be the only good guy in the council?" I like that he seems trustworthy for now, in comparison to the obviously slimy Varys and Littlefinger.

Not really a fan of the Donner Partied night's watch with Thorne story. I hope that was a lie. Because, well, ew. :ack:

[Lord Godric]

I feel like I saw a bunch of things, but they didn't add up to anything more. All the other episodes packed an emotional punch, but this one left me cold. Anyone else feel this way?

Not at all. In fact, compared to last week's episode, I thought this one was so much more emotional. Last week's episode felt a little cold, while this one was great.

[Lord Godric]

While I did like Sam in this episode, and greatly liked his friendship with Jon, I couldn't help but think how annoying it is going to be to see Sam hardly change over 4 seasons of the show. I could imagine AFfC-Sam falling to the ground when being attacked with training swords just like aGoT-Sam did. I'm begrudgingly hoping that they give TV-Sam a little more courage than Book-Sam gains over time.

[RedWeddingCake]

Can't believe no one has mentioned the "I'd rather throw myself down a well" line at the end. That had me in stitches.

Excellent episode that gets better with each viewing. Littlefinger is doing his best to counsel Ned in the finer points of playing "the game", but the guy just doesn't grasp the danger at all. Love it. As for the Baelish/Sansa deal, let's see what transpires before jumping to conclusions. The writers have demonstrated great subtlety throughout these 4 episodes.

Too bad I will never get over my dislike for Sam. How could anyone be so craven?

[SergioCQH]

It seems that this episode has resulted in very polarized opinions. Some people, like me, absolutely love it and think it's the best one so far. Others think it's the weakest.

[Xenophon]

Not at all. In fact, compared to last week's episode, I thought this one was so much more emotional. Last week's episode felt a little cold, while this one was great.

Hmm, it could be because I didn't get to see it straight through. Perhaps if I sit down and watch it from beginning to end it will have more impact.

Yeah, on second thought, switching between it and the bball game probably killed the emotional impact on my first watch, and the second time I was pretty distracted too. So, objection retracted.

[ZombieWife]

My favorite episode so far.

Highlights:

The story of the Mountain and the Hound. I was wondering when we would get to see Conan. Even though he only lifted his visor, more is coming.

Dany standing up for herself.

Viserys is such a little shit. Harry Lloyd is really doing a wonderful job.

Bran and Hodor! Hodor was perfect. The scene with Bran/Hodor and Tyrion in Rob's throne room was really fun to watch.

The scene where Catelyn and Tyrion were at the inn (Catelyn calling to all the men loyal to Riverrun) at the end literally gave me chills.

Jon and Sam = strong friendship chemistry. The Wall scenes are some of my favorite.

More Theon. Yes! Alfie Allen is going to rock this role in season 2. I cannot wait.

The scene with Jaime and Jory was great. I'm liking N. Coster-Waldau more and more. His portrayal of Jaime is subtle and so spot on. The dripping sarcasm yet you see vulnerability (or a lostness) in his eyes. I can see why he was chosen for this part. There must be a season 3 if only to see what this guy is capable of.

Great shot of Ghost. Hope we get to see more. He looks spectacular.

Arya telling Ned "that's not me" when he tells her she will marry a noble lord. The look on Ned's face is so touching. Maisie Williams is really eating that part up.

Sophie Turner is doing such a fantastic job as Sansa. I get the yearning to fit in to the courtly life mingled with the teenage angst. Lovely stuff!

Kudos all around. Excited for next week.

[Kat]

Count me as one person, by the way, who prefers a growling Ghost. I had completely forgotten that he's supposed to be silent, but I don't think it matters all that much anyway. (Despite his name.)

[aliceunderskies]

Favourite moments include the tenderness on Tyrion's face when he utters his "cripples etc" line and the awesomeness of Dany's transformation. My boyfriend and I cheered when she gave Viserys the smackdown. Emilia Clark is fantastic in this role!

I also really, really like the care taken in casting. The familial resemblances are actually present--a rarity for TV & movies. Even the girls playing Arya and Sansa seem, to me, to have a striking resemblance from certain angles. More importantly, of course, they're both utterly fantastic. We've been watching it with a slew of non-readers and everyone looooves Arya to pieces. Grins all around whenever she's onscreen. It'll be rough to watch everything that has to happen to her...

[VikingLegion]

The Hand's Tournament: Plenty of good seats still available: Would it have killed then to have CGI'd a few people, because it looks like the tournament of the Hand was held in Springfield, Massachusetts.

Hey, I'm from Springfield, MA (just outside it actually). What's that supposed to mean?!?!?!?

[Convivial Edd]

Sam: "So you didn't know where to put it" :rofl: :lmao:

Overall really liked the episode. The biggest complaint for me continues to be how they are dealing with the mythology of the show. It's just a little too much of forced exposition. Otherwise everything is going swimmingly in my opinion. There are definitely places where the budget constraints are noticeable, as mentioned in the tourney, but I can't blame the show for that.

As a side note my biggest pet peeve was the casting of Gendry, because the pictures I saw of him made him look like a coke adddict. Glad to see he bulked up a little bit despite the small role in the first season. Also, I thought it was cool that the makeup/camera people created an illusion to make his right arm appear bigger then his left.

Also, Doreah. :drool:

[Quithrill]

The Jon/Sam/Thorne scene was my favorite of the episode. Very well acted and did a great job of painting a picture of how grim winters on the wall are, as well as some great chemistry between Jon and Sam.

Least favorite was scrub-a-dub Viserys. It seemed like a very long scene filled with TMI about history that is more or less irrelevant. I'm glad they established for the audience that the Targaryens bred and rode dragons, but it seemed to drag on and on when I would have preferred to be watching other characters.

As far as Sandor's speech going to Littlefinger, I'm impartial until I see how it plays out. I don't even know that Martin knew how Sansa and Petyr's relationship would play out when he wrote the tourney scene all those years ago, but knowing now and being able to go back and build a little more foundation between them early on is neat.

I like the Jamie/Jory scene. Jamie didn't want to give him the time of day, but once he realized they had fought together he seemed to warm up immediately. Granted... he'll kill him next episode, but it was cool to see.

I hope there is alot more tournament next week, didn't expect it to get cut in two.

I really liked Hodor.

Pronunciations keep frustrating me. Hearing things pronounced different than I have been pronouncing them in my head for years pisses me off. I have always thought Aegion to be pronounced E-Jon. Viserys pronounced it E-Gon like the damned ghostbuster. And I sounded out Maegor as Mage-or. I can't remember how he said it but I was like WTF?

But overall I have minor nitpicks for another great episode.

[ingsve]

It's a bit strange to have them mention Roz and hear hair so many times in this show but they don't show her. Couldn't they have given Esmé Bianco a quick scene as reference here. People might start to think that she is more important than she actually is. Like she is part of the mystery somehow.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Count me as one person, by the way, who prefers a growling Ghost. I had completely forgotten that he's supposed to be silent, but I don't think it matters all that much anyway. (Despite his name.)

He can just as easily be Ghost because he's all white.

I think that there are plenty of other ways that the show can convey that Ghost is different even from his magic direwolf siblings. None of which are particularly important to the first season, where I understand from Ran's comments that working with the animals was difficult. Subsequent seasons/bigger wolves can probably end up being CGI, and if that's not a huge problem for the production then maybe we can see more of Summer, Grey Wind, Ghost, and even Nymeria if we get Arya's wolf dreams (which I certainly hope we do).

[Spring Bass]

I just watched it.

• This was my favorite showing of Show-Jon so far. Yes, he comes across as a bit reserved and quiet much of the time, but that's how Jon is in the books (we just don't notice it as much because we only see Jon a couple of times from other people's points of view).
  
  
• Sam did not look anything like how I mentally imagined it, but I think the actor fits the role. I loved his budding friendship with Jon.
  
  
• As mentioned before, they fleshed out Ser Alliser. He's an asshole, but not for no reason. Book-Alliser was mostly a one-note asshole and bully, and he's mostly described making fun of Jon in some way.
  
  
• Although it was cool seeing Viserys describe the dragon skulls (this is one area where it would have been freaking awesome to have it shift to a view of the skulls gradually increasing in size, until we see the vast skull of Balerion), the whole scene still felt very clunky and mostly unnecessary. I think it would have been better to see Viserys brooding over his last encounter with Dany, before his fight in the tent. All that said, the actor playing him is mostly perfect.
  
  
• Lots and lots of exposition in this episode. I don't mind it, but it felt rather heavy sometimes. I don't really see any way around it, either - there's so much that has to be introduced even with television streamlining.
  
  
• Tyrion was fantastic, although he needs to express some more emotion (I hope we'll finally see him get pissed off in the next episode). His scene with Theon Greyjoy (putting the boy down while introducing Greyjoy and setting up his character) was great.
  
  
• Not so much for the Ned-Cersei scene, on which I'm divided. It just seems totally out-of-character for Cersei to actually apologize to someone who hurt her son (in fact, has Cersei ever had a genuine apology in the series? I can't remember).
  
  
• The ending was damn cool. Enough said.
  
  
• I know there are budget constraints, but the tournament just seemed too small. Would it have been really expensive to CGI in some additional crowds at the Hand's Tournament?
  
  
• There are a whole bunch of little nitpicks I have, but they don't really decrease the show's quality in my eyes.
  

[AquariumDrinker]

Count me as one person, by the way, who prefers a growling Ghost. I had completely forgotten that he's supposed to be silent, but I don't think it matters all that much anyway. (Despite his name.)

I agree, a silent Ghost might look a bit silly on TV, or at least not come across the way he does in the book. I had a silent big dog once (an Akita), there was nothing that would get your attention more than when he decided to make a noise, I always imagined Ghost to be the same way.

[moonjump05]

Least favorite was scrub-a-dub Viserys. It seemed like a very long scene filled with TMI about history that is more or less irrelevant. I'm glad they established for the audience that the Targaryens bred and rode dragons, but it seemed to drag on and on when I would have preferred to be watching other characters.

As far as Sandor's speech going to Littlefinger, I'm impartial until I see how it plays out. I don't even know that Martin knew how Sansa and Petyr's relationship would play out when he wrote the tourney scene all those years ago, but knowing now and being able to go back and build a little more foundation between them early on is neat.

Yeah, that Viserys scene just kept going.....

Not happy with the Hound's backstory change, but if it is neccessary for this new more morose and silent Hound then I'll wait impatiently for it to pan out. As is, we lost something in the telling from LF and didn't gain much by the change.

It's a bit strange to have them mention Roz and hear hair so many times in this show but they don't show her. Couldn't they have given Esmé Bianco a quick scene as reference here. People might start to think that she is more important than she actually is. Like she is part of the mystery somehow.

LOL, yeah I was thinking, "Is there only one red headed whore in Winterfell, or what?"