[BOOK SPOILERS] Season 2 will be the most expensive, if done right.

[Lord Varys]

Well, Ned is a POV character, Robb is not.

The War of the Five Kings is also not the major story line of ACoK. It is Theon's betrayal, Bran finding out about his powers, Tyrion scheming in KL and preparing the city for war, Arya's wandering across Westeros, and Stannis' introduction and his subsequent rise and fall. And of course it is Daenerys traveling from the Dothraki Sea to Qarth, and visiting the House of the Undying.

Renly, Catelyn, and Robb are secondary characters.

We can see Robb being a great tactician by showing that he outsmarted Jaime, and hearing that he destroyed another Lannisters army. The book did never show us Ser Stafford Lannister, so I don't see a reason why the series should. Ser Axell Florent, Shireen and even Patchface are way more important than that guy.

And there is no tactical clash between Tywin and Robb in ACoK. Tywin sits in Harrenhal, and Robb is raiding the Westerlands. End of story.

[Padraig]

I think they would show more of Robb if they had less time presures. D&D have said they'd prefer not to ignore the character but that doesn't mean they wouldn't. They only have 10 episodes. They have a lot of plot to cover. They still might give us a few Robb scenes. Or not. Its hard to guess. They don't need to show Robb though. But if they do, it will likely be before or after battles. Not during.

I think its also possible that we'll have more Renly and Loras scenes. We already know they have 1 new scene in S1, so that suggests that D&D are prepared to spend time with them. It'll make Renly's eventual demise more shocking.

I wouldn't say Catelyn is a secondary character either. She has always been one of the main characters in the first 3 books. Its through her in aCoK that we keep up to date with what is going on with Robb, Renly, Edmure and her big showdown with Jaime. All important stuff.

[Ser Kevan Raley]

As much as I like cool battle scenes, I realize that it would be prohibitively expensive to do on a TV budget, and I'd rather they not break the treasury and safeguarding to continuation of the show than add battles that we could be without.

[Anomandaris86]

Well, Ned is a POV character, Robb is not.

Neither is Jaime or Cersei. Your point's not valid.

The War of the Five Kings is also not the major story line of ACoK. It is Theon's betrayal, Bran finding out about his powers, Tyrion scheming in KL and preparing the city for war, Arya's wandering across Westeros, and Stannis' introduction and his subsequent rise and fall.

And those are all related and are subplots of the War of the Five Kings.

Renly, Catelyn, and Robb are secondary characters.

How can you even say that?

And there is no tactical clash between Tywin and Robb in ACoK. Tywin sits in Harrenhal, and Robb is raiding the Westerlands. End of story.

Perhaps not tactical then. But in overall startegic terms they are definitely clashing against each other. And Tywin is only in Harranhal for the beginning of Clash of Kings.

I think they would show more of Robb if they had less time presures. D&D have said they'd prefer not to ignore the character but that doesn't mean they wouldn't. They only have 10 episodes.

I'd be very surprised if they stuck with 10 for season 2. A standard, "full" season for shows like this are 12/13 episodes. Starting out with 10 for the first season just means they're playing it a little safer. Every show I know of that starts with 10 episodes and then continues into the next season gives the full amount from that point forward. It should be the same for Game of Thrones.

[Manakhkubar]

I'd be very surprised if they stuck with 10 for season 2. A standard, "full" season for shows like this are 12/13 episodes. Starting out with 10 for the first season just means they're playing it a little safer. Every show I know of that starts with 10 episodes and then continues into the next season gives the full amount from that point forward. It should be the same for Game of Thrones.

Michael Lombardo from HBO confirmed that season two will only have 10 episodes. And I guess they won't get a much higher budget either, which pretty much deals the battles question.

[Padraig]

Michael Lombardo from HBO confirmed that season two will only have 10 episodes. And I guess they won't get a much higher budget either, which pretty much deals the battles question.

They might nudge up the budget if they feel that the series has worked very well. But I do agree that there wouldn't be a huge change.

[Arya The Assassin]

Speaking of visual effects and battles:

GRRM shared some of his own opinions on this subject in a recent interview. I found his entire reply quite interesting, so I've quoted him in full (emphasis added):

Well, I’m worried about some of the special effects-heavy scenes. I haven’t seen those yet. I’m very anxious to see the last scene of the first season. I don’t want to reveal any spoilers here, but if you’ve read the book, you know what the last scene is [1]. So, I wonder how that will come across and how the effects will hold up.

And, I wonder about some of the battles that occur. We have a couple of major battles in this, like the Battle of Whispering Wood and the Battle of the Green Fork. It’ll be interesting to see how they do on screen. Those are something we never could have done at all, in the days when I was more active in television, but now they’ve become a little more plausible, thanks to computer special effects and CGI, even though they’re still expensive and time consuming to do. That’s going to be a challenge for us.

I also sometimes look ahead to if they are lucky enough to get a second, third and fourth season. I have some huge set piece things coming up, in those seasons. The Great Battle of the Black Water is fought mainly on the river, with the skies alive with wildfire, and thousands of people struggling. How are we going to do that? That’s going to be quite a challenge for us, in the future years, but David and Dan have so far proved themselves up to the challenge.

There’s also some of the fantasy elements, in later seasons, particularly with the skin changing, where certain characters inhabit the mind of a wolf, or of some other animal. How do you actually show that on screen? How do you sell the idea that here’s the Dire Wolf, or some other animal, but it now has one of our characters inside it? How do you show the face changing? Some of these magical things really have to have a great deal of thought behind them.

[1] IIRC, this is the part where the dragons appear for the first time.

Source: George R. R. Martin Interview GAME OF THRONES

There are basically three ways each battle can be dealt with, depending on their importance:

• Show the battle onscreen (of course, this is the most challenging and expensive approach)
  
• Describe the battle verbally (ie. one or more characters describe the battle or its outcome after it's finished)
  
• Ignore the battle
  

It's been too long since I read the books (over 10 years ago), so I won't speculate on which battle(s) will be the most important (plot-wise).

Speaking of budget:

The budget for the first season of GoT has been estimated to be $60 M. That's relatively much for a TV series, but to put things into perspective, it's far from being the most expensive TV series ever made (all the TV series below were produced by HBO):

• The Pacific (2010): $150 M
  
• Band of Brothers (2001): Approx. $125 M (probably $150+ M if inflation is taken into consideration)
  
• Rome (2005): $100-110 M
  
• John Adams (2008): over $100 M
  
• Boardwalk Empire (2010): Estimated cost for the pilot only: $50 M.
  

In comparison, a big budget Hollywood movie costs at least $100 M, while the most expensive productions cost well over $200 M. The LOTR trilogy cost $285 M combined.

I'd be surprised if the budget isn't increased for season two. I don't expect the budget to increase substantially, though.

EDIT: It's been a while since I read the books (I've started rereading book one, though), but can somebody tell me if there were any POV characters present during the Battle of Whispering Wood or the Battle of the Green Fork?

EDIT #2: Added Rome and The Pacific to list of most expensive TV series.

[Anomandaris86]

The Battle of the Green Fork had Tyrion in the thick of it, while the Battle of the Whispering Wood had Catelyn hear it in the distance (it was dark I think).

Michael Lombardo from HBO confirmed that season two will only have 10 episodes. And I guess they won't get a much higher budget either, which pretty much deals the battles question.

Link?

[Hyper]

EDIT: It's been a while since I read the books (I've started rereading book one, though), but can somebody tell me if there were any POV characters present during the Battle of Whispering Wood or the Battle of the Green Fork?

That would be Jaime (whispering woods) and Tyrion (green fork). (although Jaime does not become a POV character until later)

As for how much battles they can show for $50-60 million per season. How about we wait and judge that until the season is finished?

[Lord Varys]

Jaime and Cersei become POV characters later in the series, so it's not stupid to introduce them as important characters early instead of having the audience wonder why now suddenly former extras/secondary characters are protagonists. We are going to have this problem already with Theon, Asha, Victarion, and Aeron. But Robb never becomes a POV character, he just dies, so it would make no sense to make him more important than he actually is.

[So1ar]

I wouldn't hold my breathe on seeing ANY of these battles. Even the ones in Game of Thrones. Have any of you guys seen Rome? It was HBO's most expensive show and they still didn't show any battles. Anytime a battle was building it would just cut to after it was over instead of showing any of the armies.

[Arya The Assassin]

I wouldn't hold my breathe on seeing ANY of these battles. Even the ones in Game of Thrones. Have any of you guys seen Rome? It was HBO's most expensive show and they still didn't show any battles.

I clearly remember that there was a battle in Rome, and I think it was in the first episode. The producers have said that they wanted the battles to look better than in Rome.

I'd be very surprised if we don't get to see any of these battles onscreen. I don't expect all of them to be shown, of course, but an entire season without a single, major battle would seem odd to me. I don't think GRRM would mention those two battles specifically if he didn't feel that they were planning to shoot at least one of them. GRRM has also said that he'll write the Battle of the Blackwater sequence for season two.

EDIT: Here's a clip from the Battle of Philippi from Rome:

HBO: Rome - Battle of Philippi

Rome had a $100-110 M budget back in 2005 (over 12 episodes), and this scene gives you an idea of what was possible to achieve back then with such a budget. Historically, the battle itself involved over 200.000 men (including 50.000 cavalry).

[The Bastard King]

I clearly remember that there was a battle in Rome, and I think it was in the first episode. The producers have said that they wanted the battles to look better than in Rome.

I'd be very surprised if we don't get to see any of these battles onscreen. I don't expect all of them to be shown, of course, but an entire season without a single, major battle would seem odd to me. I don't think GRRM would mention those two battles specifically if he didn't feel that they were planning to shoot at least one of them. GRRM has also said that he'll write the Battle of the Blackwater sequence for season two.

There was also the battle between Octavian/Mark Antony and Brutus in season 2.

[Arya The Assassin]

The Battle of the Green Fork had Tyrion in the thick of it, while the Battle of the Whispering Wood had Catelyn hear it in the distance (it was dark I think).

Ok, it sounds more likely that they'll shoot the Battle of the Green Fork since a POV character was involved, but we'll see.

Link?

Manakhkubar is correct: Michael Lombardo has indeed stated that they plan to do 10 episodes.

Here's a link to the interview:

HBO answers your 'Game of Thrones' renewal burning questions

Quote:

How many episodes is the second season?

ML: It’s such a challenging show to produce. ... The idea is to do ten of them again, and that’s what they want to do, to maintain the quality of their work.

[So1ar]

I clearly remember that there was a battle in Rome, and I think it was in the first episode. The producers have said that they wanted the battles to look better than in Rome.

I'd be very surprised if we don't get to see any of these battles onscreen. I don't expect all of them to be shown, of course, but an entire season without a single, major battle would seem odd to me. I don't think GRRM would mention those two battles specifically if he didn't feel that they were planning to shoot at least one of them. GRRM has also said that he'll write the Battle of the Blackwater sequence for season two.

the battle in the first episode only showed a few roman soldiers vs. around the same amount of gauls. it wasn't a very long scene either. also, there weren't any large shots of fighting. the most you see is soldiers marching when cesar is going from one city to the next.

the battle of philippi that you posted was cool. i haven't got to season 2 yet so its good to see that they're showing the scale of the battles.

i would love to see some large scale battles or at least show something to give us an idea of the amount of men fighting. i'm just not holding my breathe on it.

There was also the battle between Octavian/Mark Antony and Brutus in season 2.

well, i just finished season 1 and there wasn't really any major battles scenes in it. season 2 may be different though.

[Arya The Assassin]

the battle in the first episode only showed a few roman soldiers vs. around the same amount of gauls. it wasn't a very long scene either.

It was the Battle of Philippi (which I linked to) that I actually had in mind. Like I said, it's been a while since I saw the series, so I wasn't sure if the battle was in the first episode or later.

[Padraig]

But Robb never becomes a POV character, he just dies, so it would make no sense to make him more important than he actually is.

I kind of agree with this. But then I wonder whether they might want to mess with peoples heads. :P Robb hasn't got any new scenes so far (except the goodbye scene with Jon), so it'll be interesting to see what happens later in S1, as he becomes more involved in the story.

[Arya The Assassin]

Yes I remember that. He says it's the idea to do 10 again. I wouldn't call it a confirmation.

Well, it's a confirmation that they intend to do 10 episodes, so in any case I wouldn't say that Manakhkubar's statement was incorrect :) I guess it's as close as you can get to a guarantee or promise at the moment.

Anyway if the ratings keep climbing and they only do 10 for the next season he's a gigantic faggot. Almost every show I can think of that started out with 10 in the first season, and wasn't a complete flop, jumped to the standard 12/13 for all future seasons

Yes, I think 12 episodes sounds better than 10. GRRM has himself said that they hope to do 12 episodes, because ACOK is longer than AGOT. I seem to remember that D&D also said that they plan or want to do 10 episodes for season two, so Lombardo's suggestion that the writers themselves want to do 10 episodes may not be that far-fetched.

And yeah, 12 episodes will be more expensive, but that's also two more weeks of ratings, and likely another DVD as well, so they cancell out

I also hope that HBO is willing to increase the budget for season two. I suppose they might be more willing to shell out more if the ratings and viewer counts for season one continues to increase. The series has also sold very well in international markets, so this should also give them a good financial starting point for season two. DVD/Blu-Ray sales will probably also be a significant source of income (I don't buy many TV series, but GOT will definitely be a welcome addition to my collection).

P.S. And what's up with the quote function? Why was I not able to quote all of his post?

I don't know. But in general I'd not recommend quoting an entire message unless there are specific statements that you want to comment on :)

[So1ar]

It was the Battle of Philippi (which I linked to) that I actually had in mind. Like I said, it's been a while since I saw the series, so I wasn't sure if the battle was in the first episode or later.

yeah i haven't made it to season 2 yet but that battle looks pretty good. i would like to see some large scale shots like that for game of thrones but i guess we'll have to wait and see.

i'm impressed so far with what they've done visually and that's on about half the budget of rome. imo comparing the first seasons together game of thrones looks better.

[Arya The Assassin]

i'm impressed so far with what they've done visually and that's on about half the budget of rome. imo comparing the first seasons together game of thrones looks better.

Although the budget on GOT is lower than on Rome, the production is cheaper because they're shooting in Ireland (shooting in the US would be much more expensive). Tax relief and other monetary incentives were also provided in Ireland, so the "US budget"-equivalent or purchasing power is believed to be significantly higher than the estimated $60 M.