[SPOILERS] New POV Revealed

[lokisnow]

Why has no one mentioned the Dragons?

Certainly losing one dragon would be a huge loss, losing two or all three would be absolutly devastating, especially as they're like Dany's children. Removing one or all of them would significantly level the playing field when Dany arrives in Westeros.

Also one of the spoiler chapters has the dragons eating humans, could the people rise up in fear and take them down, or blame them for the disease?

Who knows, but I'm placing my money on a dragon or two being 'the loss'

I agree the Dragons are in danger. It is worth considering that the plague may be deliberately unleashed upon the world by either the Maesters or the Faceless Men in an attempt to make Dragons once again extinct. This makes it possible that either the Greyjoys or "Pate" or Marwyn are the initial source of the plague, Marwyn may be the one to forestall the plague, or he may be the one that brings it.

And we have 3 Greyjoy POVs? *stares in horror* Why? Why not someone interesting? One of the Tyrells, for example. Every single one of them is better than Victarion. This is certainly only personal opinion, but the Greyjoys are my least favorite family in the series. I was hoping they'll get wiped out. A Sweet Robin POV sounds more interesting to me than a Greyjoy.

Victarian may be essential in terms of the plague as well as what happens with the dragons. What if Victarian gets Drogon with the horn, at the cost of losing all his men to the plague, only to have Drogon sicken and die on him from the same plague. Oh bitter irony.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

And we needed to get inside the heads of Asha AND Victarion AND Auron AND Theon to clue us in on these characters and their situation? Well blimey, one must wonder how other writers and pre-AFFC Martin ever got anything done.

I can't speak for pre-AFFC Martin, but I imagine that he saw the POV system as an effective storytelling device rather than a mandate from the heavens, and thus something that could be changed when the storytelling demanded it. The POV structure has never been a static thing; GRRM's conception of how it would work has changed a number of times since he first started writing the series. That's not to say that every change that GRRM makes is wise. But I'm at a loss to figure out what your problem with having four Greyjoy POVs is in the first place, so posts like this come off as a knee-jerk aversion to change.

[DurararaFTW]

I can't speak for pre-AFFC Martin, but I imagine that he saw the POV system as an effective storytelling device rather than a mandate from the heavens, and thus something that could be changed when the storytelling demanded it. The POV structure has never been a static thing; GRRM's conception of how it would work has changed a number of times since he first started writing the series. That's not to say that every change that GRRM makes is wise. But I'm at a loss to figure out what your problem with having four Greyjoy POVs is in the first place, so posts like this come off as a knee-jerk aversion to change.

You are at a loss as to why I have a problem with it so you default to an explanation you don't agree with? That's awesome.

I prefer having a protagonist that I'm suppose to sympathise with. If I'm just checking in with a random POV to see what the new developments are, it's not gonna be that interesting to me. This isn't news, it's a story.

[TrackerNeil]

Neither Stannis nor Robb talk about a Kingsmoot, and is essentially Aeron who gets to Ironborn to revive this ancient tradition. Stannis and Robb could only assume that Theon would press his rightful claim, and Victarion might decide to rebel against his brother. But they gave no real reason why the latter should do this. And Victarion also only ends up pressing his only claim when there is a Kingsmoot. Had there been none, he would have served Euron, as he had served Balon because that's what he was trained to do.

So because Robb and Stannis know nothing about a kingsmoot, we the readers should assume no succession struggle will occur? Maybe that works for you, but I've been reading ASOIAF too long to assume that any important succession will be clear cut or uncontested. If it hadn't been a kingsmoot it could (and probably would) have been something else.

Also, I don't think you can say for a certainty that, had there been no kingsmoot, Victarion would have fallen in line behind Euron. Keep in mind there was a credible accusation on the table that Euron was responsible for Balon's death, and that alone might have moved Victarion to move against his brother.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I prefer having a protagonist that I'm suppose to sympathise with. If I'm just checking in with a random POV to see what the new developments are, it's not gonna be that interesting to me. This isn't news, it's a story.

What makes Asha (or Aeron, or Victarion) a "random POV"? Just the fact that you don't care for them, or something else?

[DurararaFTW]

Are we suppose to care about them? Do we get these POV's for reasons other then "They're there and nobody else is"?

[TrackerNeil]

I prefer having a protagonist that I'm suppose to sympathise with. If I'm just checking in with a random POV to see what the new developments are, it's not gonna be that interesting to me. This isn't news, it's a story.

The fact that you can't sympathize with Victarion or Asha may not be a fault in the writing but just the way you are. I'm sure there are other readers who think differently, and have no problem with either character.

[History of Westeros]

Are we suppose to care about them? Do we get these POV's for reasons other then "They're there and nobody else is"?

I care about them because I assume that if Martin devotes time to them, they or the events they witness must be important to the storyline as a whole, or to other characters who "matter more". Even if they don't seem so yet.

For example, I care about Barristan because I care about Dany. I care about Victarion for the same reason.

Also frankly.. If Martin writes it I'll probably read it. He might not make me care about the fate of Aeron Greyjoy, but I'll love his chapters anyway because they take place in a rich, vibrant world. Even a character like him has an interesting backstory, and Martin gives us that in spades.

Personally I've never really "cared" about Sansa, nor Catelyn or Theon, (meaning they could die or suffer and I wouldn't feel sorry or sad) but I still enjoy their chapters and don't skip them when I re-read.

Is it that vital to care about the character when the events surrounding that character are interesting/compelling?

[DurararaFTW]

The fact that you can't sympathize with Victarion or Asha may not be a fault in the writing but just the way you are. I'm sure there are other readers who think differently, and have no problem with either character.

Victarion or Asha? We get all POVs and they are not allies. There's no misunderstanding like with Tyrion and Catelyn, there is no actual good guy you should be rooting for between the four of them (I mean, plunder, rape and slavery in all but name as their treatment of the villages they conquer is explicitly described for either part of the North, a bigger part of the North, all of the North or more as their goal respectively are all bad options last time I checked) they're not actual villains like Cersei. They're just people we apparently we'll need to know, later on.

[Kalbear]

The fact that you can't sympathize with Victarion or Asha may not be a fault in the writing but just the way you are. I'm sure there are other readers who think differently, and have no problem with either character.

I guess for me I have a problem with the Greyjoys (other than Theon, oddly enough) because there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of need for them. I'm not sure what Victarion's chapter does other than illustrate him being a badass. I don't know why we need to see Aeron in the flesh, or even the kingsmoot. It's not like we need povs to get news of the realm, and if Euron and Victarion are going to interact with Dany we can get that interaction when they talk with Dany. If Asha's going to rescue Theon we can get that interaction then as well.

The biggest problem I have with the disparate PoVs is that they spread focus and dilute characterization for me personally. It's similar to my distaste for the Dany chapters; every Dany chapter is a chapter AWAY from the real story. And sure, I like Dany and I like her story, but it's like reading another book entirely. It's like channelsurfing away from the main program against your will. The Greyjoys felt way too much like that for me; I still don't know why we saw so much of them given how weak they really are.

[Faint]

I'd no idea that provoking empathy in readers was a necessary precondition in order to become a proper POV.

[DurararaFTW]

Is it that vital to care about the character when the events surrounding that character are interesting/compelling?

I hugely prefer it that way, yes.

And you know, okay; you don't like Sansa and Catelyn, that's fine. But between the 30 something chapters Martin spent on them, you know he tried, and they really could not have been avoided for the story. With Aeron, first we get introduced to him is through a character that doesn't like him, then get to go inside his head, maybe he's not such a bad guy, then the next time we see him, it's through another character that doesn't like him, and the next time we see him it's through yet another character that doesn't like him. so really? I'm suppose to identify with Aeron? And all these other characters who each are -more then half the time that I see them- the hostile verbal opponents of whoevers POV I am reading instead of theirs at the time?

[Shakey]

Quite happy with the new POV choice.

As for the Greyjoys...I hated them on the first read. They were alien and foreign and felt like distractions. On concurrent re-reads, I realized they were great chapters. The few aFFC chapters set them up to be less alien in the next book. In a way it's sort of like the first time I read a Davos chapter. It felt different and I didn't like it. Now I like Davos chapters and they feel normal. In time Greyjoy chapters will feel normal.

[Carter209]

The Greyjoy chapters (especially Theon's) are some of the best in the series, IMO. Plus, even if the character is a complete prick, they were put there for a purpose. They are all part of the story, even Aeron, who, while only having, like, 3 chapters, gave us a POV during the Kingsmoot that was, in a way, neutral: he wasn't one of the potential claimants, he was the guy leading the Kingsmoot. I'd rather have him in that chapter as the POV than Vic or Asha.

[History of Westeros]

I hugely prefer it that way, yes.

And you know, okay; you don't like Sansa and Catelyn, that's fine. But between the 30 something chapters Martin spent on them, you know he tried, and they really could not have been avoided for the story. With Aeron, first we get introduced to him is through a character that doesn't like him, then get to go inside his head, maybe he's not such a bad guy, then the next time we see him, it's through another character that doesn't like him, and the next time we see him it's through yet another character that doesn't like him. so really? I'm suppose to identify with Aeron? And all these other characters who each are -more then half the time that I see them- the hostile verbal opponents of whoevers POV I am reading instead of theirs at the time?

That doesn't sound much different than what happened with Jaime. Everyone hates him (except Tyrion, to be fair) and he is presented as extremely villainous right off the bat. Most people end up liking him despite the fact that he tried to murder a child who is written as sympathetic.

Seeing both sides is one of the reasons these books are so good.

You're not necessarily supposed to identify with Aeron, but he's not a major character. There are a ton of characters who are onscreen a lot more than Aeron who we don't sympathize with either. I don't think a guy who is used much less (Aeron), but happens to have some POV chapters is all that different from ones we see on screen a ton without a POV.

[Kalbear]

I guess since I don't particularly like Aeron or the rest of the greyjoys having him at the kingsmoot is not that special to me. I don't need to see Asha fail. I don't need to see Euron succeed. Just like I didn't need to see Balon die. I could have easily heard from a sailor that a kingsmoot was done and Euron had returned from the dead with a horn rumored to control dragons, besting Asha.

That would be it. Don't need anything else.

[History of Westeros]

I guess since I don't particularly like Aeron or the rest of the greyjoys having him at the kingsmoot is not that special to me. I don't need to see Asha fail. I don't need to see Euron succeed. Just like I didn't need to see Balon die. I could have easily heard from a sailor that a kingsmoot was done and Euron had returned from the dead with a horn rumored to control dragons, besting Asha.

That would be it. Don't need anything else.

Totally makes sense, but imo the kingsmoot was *awesome*, and that is reason enough for me for it to be a part of the story. :) If it bloats the story or doesn't progress the main plotlines, I simply don't care.

Simply put: if Martin wants to write about his world, I want to read it.

[Bronn Stone]

Arms Of The Kraken was the best part of AFFC. I don't think there is really even much of an argument. The story had a beginning, a middle and an end. It meshed well with the rest of the overall ASOIAF story and brought depth to a previously underexplored area of Westeros. It was necessary in the inevitable evolution of the story - the events of the story are changing the world and those changes send ripples out further and further into Westeros. Changes sweep in to the Iron Islands and it is critical that we see them.

The Ironborn have been in ASOIAF from the first POV and while Theon himself does not appear in AOTK, the Ironborn as a people needed to experience the events we see in AFFC to become what they need to become before the end of the tale. I believe Westeros will need their contribution to overcome the threat brewing in the North. Leaving out the steps they took or reporting them from afar would have been a tragedy and would have resulted in a tale that is less than what we got.

[Loras]

In regards to the Ironborn chapters:

In AGOT almost all of the central characters (barring Dany) started their journey at Winterfell and from that castle the story expanded with each of the PoVs heading their own story in their own location. It is true that some of the viewpoints were clustered together, but in the main they each showed a different facet of a location. An example here is Tyrion and Catelyn at the Eyrie, where two characters have a very different experience of the same location. If Nagga's cradle is the AFFC equivalent of Winterfell, we can expect the story of the characters to expand.

This is what we are seeing, Euron's election at the Kingsmoot is the catalyst that causes all of the Ironborn characters; Aeron, Asha and Victarion to diverge once again. I think it is important to give these characters their own personality and motivations. If Quentyn, Victarion and the rest of them all arrive at Dany without any idea of their intention or what is motivating them then there is a lot of exposition required when the characters arrive. Giving us a window in to the psyche of these characters allows GRRM to retain the dramatic tension of the story.

Equally, I would be very surprised if Asha doesn't have at least 5 chapters across the two books. Similarly, looking at Quentyn's first chapter - it doesn't really go anywhere, he is going to have more chapters in his journey to Dany. I think the size of ADWD is going to help develop the bit part viewpoints.

[Valmy]

I love the idea of Barristan getting a POV. I think that the choice of Barristan and Melisandre as PoVs is excellent and indicative of GRRM's hope of finishing the series in 7 books. These two characters are capable of filling in a number of blanks (whether from the backstory [barristan] or from the more magically influenced side of the story [Melisandre]), which I think is really necessary at this point.

I hope that we get a lot of information on Aerys' reign from Barristan - not to mention a flashback to the battle at the Trident would be awesome. It would be nice to get a flashback of young Robert. What does he know of Lyanna Stark? Could we get some significant clues in regards to Jon's parentage and the Tower of Joy?

Pretty giddy about it myself. We have not had a male POV of the older generation since Ned died (well...unless you count Victarion and Damphair but they were not present at any of the big events).