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How Would You Rate Episode 105?

  

290 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      0
    • 2
      2
    • 3
      4
    • 4
      3
    • 5
      1
    • 6
      7
    • 7
      25
    • 8
      55
    • 9
      110
    • 10
      83


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All the comments about the slurping make me wonder if people missed those during Tyrion's scene in Ep1. (They weren't from him drinking, or they would have stopped when he did.) Or if it's somehow different if the slurper is male.

Other than that, this was by far my favourite of those we've seen up to this point. I think cutting out a couple of locations/storylines really helped bring everything together. And yes, I mean that even with the additional material providing enough time that we probably could have jumped back over to one of those storylines - I think the new scenes didn't disrupt anything as much as a 'POV' shift would have.

The only things I didn't like were the things I mentioned in the ep-specific discussion thread (the first, anyway). First, I don't think LF would have been that open about taunting Renly at the joust -- Loras and Renly's relationship was an open 'secret'. That means that 1) it's unlikely that most people who mattered at the tourney wouldn't already have been aware and 2) LF wouldn't have been bandying about something so widely-known. It just doesn't seem his style, anyway, at least not one-on-one.

Secondly, something about the Loras-Renly interaction and personalities seems off to me. I always saw Renly as more gregarious and charming, and less full of self-doubt. Okay, I can buy that he's never thought of being king, and Loras is the more ambitious of the two. I just don't see either TV interpretation as the type to inspire the admiration they seem to get in GoT-the-book. I also don't see this Renly as being Loras's sun, but maybe that will become more obvious as we get more interaction between the two on-screen.

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Best episode yet without a doubt.

The best scenes were actually those that didn't appear in the book because they actually added to and explained much of the subtext so well. The scenes between Littlefinger and Varys, and Robert and Cersei were suberb. Not so sure the relationship between Renly and Tyrel was quite so blatant or neccessary in the books though.

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Too heavy on combat? Seasons two and three definitaly won't be up your alley then. Honestly, I can't wait till the gloves come off. Without combat, any given fantasy series is just a soap opera while wearing swords.

Having read those books between 50 and 100 times each, I have a pretty good idea what is coming. I don't mind the big battles at all. Strategy and planning are interesting. It is only sword-banging that leaves me yawning. I'd rather gouge my eyes out than try to watch 300 again. But I can watch I, Claudius over and over again. Because it is better.

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This was my first 10, and definitely great. The new scenes were largely brilliant including the amazing Cersei/Robert scene, the book adaptations were downright horrific and awesome (horse getting decapitated on screen? HOLY FUCK), Ned's chastisement was grand, Arya's encounter with Illyrio and Varys followed by her smacking the fuck out of two guards was incredible, and I didn't miss Dany/Jon for a second.

Peter Dinklage is so incredible as Tyrion, and the Cat/Tyrion/Bronn/Lysa interactions are awesome.

I only vaguely didn't like the Loras casting. But that was really a minor quibble. I can't wait to watch it again.

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Things that irked me:

-- Didn't like Sandor keeping his fist raised with Loras. I don't remember that being in the book, I feel like Book Sandor would have scowled, spit (at Loras, not the king), and stalked away, angry at having been forced into a conflict not of his own making, for this creampuff knight who he wouldn't respect.

-- Loras is bad. He's not nearly as beautiful as he's supposed to be in the books (making Sansa's swooning a little hard to believe), but the dude has an uncut toothpick body, I don't see how he's a master swordsman or can even hold up the jousting lance. Frankly, he looks ridiculous as a "great knight" in his armor. Again, I think he should look more like this.

-- Renly too small and weak, not charismatic or confident enough.

-- Scene between Varys and Littlefinger went on too long and set them up as much more outwardly confrontational than in the book. Could be an interesting take on it, but I don't think it's needed to show it that way. I feel like they both work behind the scenes and wouldn't want to give away any information they didn't have to (including knowledge about each other).

-- Didn't like the lighting when Arya was hiding int he dragon skull. Scene should have been darker (mostly torchlight) but at the same time I thought the skull was not at all obviously a dragon skull, even in HD. Would people who haven't read the books even recognize it as such?

-- Ned-Jaime fight should have been in the dark and in the rain, not yet another sunny palm-tree day in King's Landing. Yeah, plot-wise it doesn't really change anything horribly, I just thought they missed an opportunity to set a great mood there. Think about the fight between Rutger Hauer and Harrison Ford at the end of Blade Runner. Would that scene have had the same impact in sunny, dry daylight? "The Storm" has started with this fight, this is where it all really starts going downhill, they should have had the environment play a role in reinforcing that.

-- The long shot of the Eyrie. Kind of cool, but I always pictured it carved into the side of a cliff instead of as a freestanding structure. Not sure why the Moon Door should be a hole in the floor (for one thing, it's a waste of space, just doesn't seem as practical as an actual door in the wall).

-- The tournament still looks terribly small and cheap. I guess it's over now? Can't tell. Like Episode 4, they didn't really give many clues as to where we're at with it (people advancing, being officially crowned as champion, etc.). We visit it randomly a couple times to fit in some key scenes, but that's it, it seems forced in.

-- Bran-Luwin scene (Game of Thrones: The Board Game!) seemed a little off and unnecessary. I get that they were trying to lay out the land/map/families for people unfamiliar with the world, but it was clumsy and boring for me.

-- What was the point of Ned going to see the other Robert bastard (the baby)? He already knows about Gendry, isn't that enough? OK, he saw the baby, fine, it doesn't really prove anything more than he already knew (even if the baby actually is Robert's, it's the word of a whore after all, and you can't really see that it looks like Robert). And he did this while he must have known his family would be in increasing danger with each passing minute (he has his daughters isolated in their rooms and posted his best guards there). Feels like Ned visiting the whorehouse again was a lazy excuse to set him up for the Jaime fight, not brought on by true motivations.

Things I liked:

-- Everything else was completely awesome!

I just wish they would think about each scene and try to think "What simple things could we do to make this more dramatic or clear?" or "Is this scene even necessary?" There are small things that could be changed or added that would improve scenes, but it seems like they just didn't take the time to ask those questions in every case.

Still, great episode overall.

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-- What was the point of Ned going to see the other Robert bastard (the baby)? He already knows about Gendry, isn't that enough? OK, he saw the baby, fine, it doesn't really prove anything more than he already knew (even if the baby actually is Robert's, it's the word of a whore after all, and you can't really see that it looks like Robert). And he did this while he must have known his family would be in increasing danger with each passing minute (he has his daughters isolated in their rooms and posted his best guards there). Feels like Ned visiting the whorehouse again was a lazy excuse to set him up for the Jaime fight, not brought on by true motivations.

That scene was pretty much word for word from the book (other than that in the book it's played out in Eddard's head as he's riding back from the brothel). Even the whore looked just like the book described her. The reason why the scene is there is thus best directed to GRRM himself, but...

no, it's not enough seeing Gendry. One child doesn't prove anything as even siblings from the same parents can look differently, just as Sansa and Arya doesn't look much alike at all. The whole case against Robert's "children" is that every single bastard Robert has fathered looks just like him, regardless of how their mothers looked, while his supposed true born do not.

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The scene between Cersie and Robert bothered me because, (and I know someone will correct me if my memory fails me), Didn't Cersie say in the books that Robert had "got a child on her once" and she had GOTTEN RID OF IT ! You cannot make a Character as ruthless as Cersie sympathetic because she IS a complete and total scheming, power hungry, narcissistic bitch! As Far as Robert goes power just seems to have corrupted a man who was a doughty fighter and perhaps charismatic leader. Ned is obviously shocked and disappointed by the changes in a man he thought of as his brother. Too bad he didn't twig a little earlier, might have saved himself and his family.

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9, great episode with some very strong scenes, performances and dialogue, would be 10 but as much as I'm trying to ignore it because it shouldn't matter so much, I am really annoyed at the way they did Jaime vs Ned. I knew it was coming but I genuinely think, as I have stated too many times on the spoiler thread, that it will negatively affect all future seasons to a large enough degree to be considered a calamitous decision

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Gave this one a 7. Wasn't my fav ep. The scene with Renly and Loras was too much a departure from the book and didn't seem to add much.

I most certainly did love the scenes en rout and at the Eyrie! The battle with the wildlings was pretty tight and gorey, it had impact. Probably my fav shot of all was Tyrion looking over the edge of his sky-cell. Weeeeee.

Varys, Littlefinger and Ned... all have great on screen chemistry.

Was a "coming out" for Theon (pun intended)... at first I didn't like this casting, but now I think it's quite good. His face and acting really match his character type and story arc.

Was fun to finally see/hear some more Sandor... hopefully they won't keep stealing his lines (giving them to other characters like last ep).

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Man the actor that plays Gregor Clegane is PERFECT! The guy just seems completely and utterly psychotic how he went off on Loras. BTW I disagree with those that say Loras isn't buff enough as I've always pictured him not having a lot of muscle but rather trim and some what athletic looking. Renly on the other hand is not how I pictured him but that doesn't bother too much as it would be a hard thing to find the exact right look in my opinion.

Also the ideal that Renly and Loras scene as being a major departure of the books I disagree with in essence as I understand why they did it this way. For one tha audience who haven't read the books wouldn't pick up on the hints in the books about their sexuality. It didn't bother me as much as I knew some who had no probs with men doing women would. Bottom line great so far! Gave it a ten.

Edited by Elrick

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Things that irked me:

Really? You thought this ep good? Doesn't sound like it.

-- Didn't like Sandor keeping his fist raised with Loras. I don't remember that being in the book, I feel like Book Sandor would have scowled, spit (at Loras, not the king), and stalked away, angry at having been forced into a conflict not of his own making, for this creampuff knight who he wouldn't respect.

-- Loras is bad. He's not nearly as beautiful as he's supposed to be in the books (making Sansa's swooning a little hard to believe), but the dude has an uncut toothpick body, I don't see how he's a master swordsman or can even hold up the jousting lance. Frankly, he looks ridiculous as a "great knight" in his armor. Again, I think he should look more like this.

-- Renly too small and weak, not charismatic or confident enough.

-- Scene between Varys and Littlefinger went on too long and set them up as much more outwardly confrontational than in the book. Could be an interesting take on it, but I don't think it's needed to show it that way. I feel like they both work behind the scenes and wouldn't want to give away any information they didn't have to (including knowledge about each other).

-- Didn't like the lighting when Arya was hiding int he dragon skull. Scene should have been darker (mostly torchlight) but at the same time I thought the skull was not at all obviously a dragon skull, even in HD. Would people who haven't read the books even recognize it as such?

-- Ned-Jaime fight should have been in the dark and in the rain, not yet another sunny palm-tree day in King's Landing. Yeah, plot-wise it doesn't really change anything horribly, I just thought they missed an opportunity to set a great mood there. Think about the fight between Rutger Hauer and Harrison Ford at the end of Blade Runner. Would that scene have had the same impact in sunny, dry daylight? "The Storm" has started with this fight, this is where it all really starts going downhill, they should have had the environment play a role in reinforcing that.

-- The long shot of the Eyrie. Kind of cool, but I always pictured it carved into the side of a cliff instead of as a freestanding structure. Not sure why the Moon Door should be a hole in the floor (for one thing, it's a waste of space, just doesn't seem as practical as an actual door in the wall).

-- The tournament still looks terribly small and cheap. I guess it's over now? Can't tell. Like Episode 4, they didn't really give many clues as to where we're at with it (people advancing, being officially crowned as champion, etc.). We visit it randomly a couple times to fit in some key scenes, but that's it, it seems forced in.

-- Bran-Luwin scene (Game of Thrones: The Board Game!) seemed a little off and unnecessary. I get that they were trying to lay out the land/map/families for people unfamiliar with the world, but it was clumsy and boring for me.

-- What was the point of Ned going to see the other Robert bastard (the baby)? He already knows about Gendry, isn't that enough? OK, he saw the baby, fine, it doesn't really prove anything more than he already knew (even if the baby actually is Robert's, it's the word of a whore after all, and you can't really see that it looks like Robert). And he did this while he must have known his family would be in increasing danger with each passing minute (he has his daughters isolated in their rooms and posted his best guards there). Feels like Ned visiting the whorehouse again was a lazy excuse to set him up for the Jaime fight, not brought on by true motivations.

Things I liked:

-- Everything else was completely awesome!

I just wish they would think about each scene and try to think "What simple things could we do to make this more dramatic or clear?" or "Is this scene even necessary?" There are small things that could be changed or added that would improve scenes, but it seems like they just didn't take the time to ask those questions in every case.

Still, great episode overall.

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Episode rankings based on poll results so far:

E05 = 8.73

E02 = 8.13

E04 = 7.98

E03 = 7.87

E01 = 7.87

(E03 > E01 by virtue of having more votes)

Overall show ranking so far (based on a tally of all votes through five episodes): 8.1/10

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Gotta be honest about the Renly-Loras thing. It bothered the shit out of me. Maybe it's because I AM a bit homophobic, but I don't think it was the sex that bothered me. It was in the way Renly was portrayed. I don't remember him being such a puss in the books. He struck me as a fun loving, funny, and somewhat fearless dude. He japed about Barristan being old, He made fun of his drunken brother, and offered Ned his help in securing the kingdom. In no way did he come off as Robert's weak little brother like he did here. Also, isn't he supposed to resemble Robert in his heyday?

As far a Loras goes, isn't he supposed to be the prettiest man in the realm? And have brown hair like his sister? This guy falls short.

Now before you trash me for gay bashing, I'm not a big fan of any of the gratuitous sex scenes in any of it. Do we really need to see everyone naked to get the point across that they are having sex? I get the Danny/Drogo part, it shows how Dany entrances the big Dothraki. I also get the Cersei/Jaime one as well, we are supposed to see the perverse nature of their relationship and just how fucked up the Lannister's are. Don't get me wrong, I love sex and even watch porn, but for some reason some of these scenes just make me uncomfortable.

Still stick with 8 rating as I thought it was the best episode so far!

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8

Overall, I'd say the best episode yet - the action scenes were a welcome departure from the usual mold, and I applaud the decision to focus almost entirely on King's Landing and avoid The Wall or the Targaryen plot line. With so much going on, less was more.

In hindsight, I guess my criticism of the fight scenes (all 3!!!) is that they seemed too short - would've loved to see more of Bronn in action. I also felt the 2 Stark guards that got speared went down too easily, and Jory getting a knife through the eye felt too fabricated and staged. And Tyrion was supposed to have taken an ax to the mountain men! You know from later in AGoT and ACoK that he's actually quite formidable in h2h combat. The fight choreography and cinematography seemed a bit off to me, too. Mad props on showing Gregor killing his horse - it's all too easy to opt not to show that, but it adds so much flavor!

I was a big fan of the Loras/Renly scene. Coupled with the Winterfell scenes focusing on Theon, we've gotten some nice set-up/foreshadowing for Season 2 (as if there was ever any question of its being produced!).

The Robert/Cersei scene was fantastic - an excellent departure from the book with vivid character development. Lena Heady has said in interviews that her interpretation of Cersei is that she once had sincere affection and hopes for her and Robert; this made the climax of that scene much more dramatic for me - Cersei asked Robert if she could ever have filled the void left by Lyanna, and he said no. He then proceeded to ask how that made her feel, and she took a sip of wine and replied with indifference - in that one shot of her sipping the wine and replying, we saw Cersei confirm in her head her decision to kill Robert. I loved it.

Is anybody else disappointed that they've outed Jorah Mormont as a spy 2 seasons early?

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8

Overall, I'd say the best episode yet - the action scenes were a welcome departure from the usual mold, and I applaud the decision to focus almost entirely on King's Landing and avoid The Wall or the Targaryen plot line. With so much going on, less was more.

In hindsight, I guess my criticism of the fight scenes (all 3!!!) is that they seemed too short - would've loved to see more of Bronn in action. I also felt the 2 Stark guards that got speared went down too easily, and Jory getting a knife through the eye felt too fabricated and staged. And Tyrion was supposed to have taken an ax to the mountain men! You know from later in AGoT and ACoK that he's actually quite formidable in h2h combat. The fight choreography and cinematography seemed a bit off to me, too. Mad props on showing Gregor killing his horse - it's all too easy to opt not to show that, but it adds so much flavor!

I was a big fan of the Loras/Renly scene. Coupled with the Winterfell scenes focusing on Theon, we've gotten some nice set-up/foreshadowing for Season 2 (as if there was ever any question of its being produced!).

The Robert/Cersei scene was fantastic - an excellent departure from the book with vivid character development. Lena Heady has said in interviews that her interpretation of Cersei is that she once had sincere affection and hopes for her and Robert; this made the climax of that scene much more dramatic for me - Cersei asked Robert if she could ever have filled the void left by Lyanna, and he said no. He then proceeded to ask how that made her feel, and she took a sip of wine and replied with indifference - in that one shot of her sipping the wine and replying, we saw Cersei confirm in her head her decision to kill Robert. I loved it.

Is anybody else disappointed that they've outed Jorah Mormont as a spy 2 seasons early?

I'm pretty sure they outed him as a spy in exactly the same council meeting in the books

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Gotta be honest about the Renly-Loras thing. It bothered the shit out of me. Maybe it's because I AM a bit homophobic

At least you have the balls to admit it. I think a lot of people were "bothered" by that scene for similar reasons but are trying to find other reasons to hate on it.

IMO, it didn't force to me suspend belief at all. If Martin had chosen to give Loras or Renly a PoV, I think this would have been identical to one of their "praying" sessions.

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The renly Loras scene wasn't awful it was just a little fat (unlike both emaciated bodies on display, seriously if you're going to do fan service lets get some guys with meat). The slurping made me lol which i guess wasn't the intention.

Overall i liked the episode but was again left cold and baffled by a lot of the changes. Littlefinger/varys was a decent scene but utterly wrong to have two people whose stock is in whispers and intrigue go all Bond villain on each other. There were several more artful ways of acheiving the same affect (inc. the cut Littlefinger explaining his manipulation of robert's council to Ned).

I'm really unsure on the cersei scene (again) and i think i'm going to be waiting until i see just how much she's lying to see whether i like the character alterations. Best added scene was Bran and Luwin. A perfect example of how to do exposition, world building and character development without feeling forced. If only they were able to do this more often...

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I'm pretty sure they outed him as a spy in exactly the same council meeting in the books

Yes, Ser Jorah gets outed in the exact same way in the book.

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Yes, Ser Jorah gets outed in the exact same way in the book.
Yes, he does. And it was so early in the books (and surrounded by more interesting things) compared to when Dany finds out that I'd completely forgotten about that by the time I got there, and only really payed attention on a re-read. So I think it's understandable to forget it was in the book. Edited by Abaddon

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