GRRM's new Not a Blog post

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

That would be interesting as to who I root for. While she wants Jaime dead for the red wedding, she has every right to wnat to see him hanged for pushing Bran out the window.

[Phostopheles]

See, I don't think Cat is alive anymore. I don't need unCat to kill Brienne to prove she isn't Cat. That's why I disagree with your point about GRRM not killing main POVs. unCat is a tragic reflection of what Cat used to be.

I imagine most people would support Jaime against unCat. Brienne's death doesn't make any difference to that also IMO. And i'd be surprised if a lot of time is spent on Jaime revenging himself on the BwB. It doesn't sound like a very useful storyline.

I acknowledge the possibility that Brienne could be saved by someone other than UnCat, which would satisfy everyone's need to know whether anything of the old Cat remains.

Honestly, I don't care if Brienne lives or dies, though the way things are going I'd much prefer she kick the bucket already. She's been nothing but baggage for the past two books, and I really don't like the whole "kill Jaime Lannister" direction her plot is going. Too coincidental a premise, too cliche a conclusion. To have her go off and do something else, anything, would be more satisfying, but it would completely go against her character. Ergo, hanging.

[Lord Godric]

If Brienne did indeed die at the end of AFfC, I will go through all of my future rereads skipping all her chapters as they would be entirely pointless without some big culmination of her story.

[Ellroy]

About Brienne: if she is still alive, she has to hunt Jaime. There is no other way to survive UnCat's trial. So, there's no need of a Brienne chapter in ADwD.

George could easily end her cliffhanger with a duel against Jaime (maybe in Cersei's trial by battle with Brienne the Maid as champion of the faith :) ). Briene wins, Jaime and Cersei die... and right after the fight she kill herself for her love of Jaime.

A good ending for those storylines, three pov less.

Quick, economic and elegant :D.

[Padraig]

Under what ground? It's not as if Catelyn threw Joffrey off a tower and crippled him.

Jaime has certainly done bad things but unCat is a monster. Some people will want the monster to kill Jaime but I would have thought that most people wouldn't support the monster. OTOH, that is a guess on my part.

She's been nothing but baggage for the past two books

You didn't like her in aSoS either? I'm not sure Jaime's transformation would have worked so neatly without somebody like Brienne to compare himself to.

[Corvinus85]

I haven't been keeping up with this topic but here is my guess list of POV chapters:

Prologue.....1

Epilogue.....1

Daenerys.....13

Jon..........12

Tyrion.......10

Reek.........7

Davos........6

Arya.........4

Bran.........3

Asha.........3

Quentyn......3

Jaime........2

Cersei.......2

Victarion....2

Barristan....1

Areo.........1

Melisandre...1

Mystery POV..1

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

And since Brienne is not a POV in this next book, the only way I see her surviving until TWoW is to join a major character's POV, unless someone wants to argue that TWoW will have 20 POV characters.

I don't know about 20, but I think that TWOW will have as many POVs as necessary to make the story work. If that includes Brienne, then GRRM will make room for her. Honestly, the heavy lifting, story-wise, is explaining why Brienne goes from wanting to rescue Sansa to wanting to kill Jaime. Once she's on her new trajectory, GRRM may be able to tell the story with a single Brienne POV (to set up her new direction) and then have the rest play out in a Jaime POV as relevant.

In any case, I don't think that GRRM has to kill Brienne because he has too many POVs. I can think of three other POV characters more likely to die in ADWD: Davos, Ser Barristan, and Victarion.

I can't see Jaime taking up Tyrion's former role of being at the center of King's Landing politics. I think any information we get about what's happening there will be via Qyburn to Cersei. Jaime, on the other hand, I think takes up Brienne's sword to complete her original mission of finding Sansa or, alternatively, in order to confront Catelyn after finding out she's the head of the Brotherhood Without Banners.

I don't buy that. Jaime's arc has increasingly taken him in the direction of assuming a position of leadership. His story (for the past book or more) is all about trying to be an responsible leader when everybody still thinks of him as the Kingslayer. His dealings with the Tullys are a good example of this dynamic. The logical culmination of that is to put Jaime in King's Landing facing off against Daenerys and Tyrion, neither of which can forgive him for the things that he did many years ago.

If Jaime didn't go to King's Landing, then that would hurt the story in two ways. First, there's much less emotional resonance in Dany and Tyrion squaring off against Mace Tyrell (or Kevan, or anybody else in King's Landing) than Jaime Lannister. Secondly, it hurts Jaime's growth as a character if he ignores the leadership vacuum in King's Landing and the needs of his family to go handle some personal agenda.

[Zezibesh]

Has it been actually confirmed that Mel is a main POV character, or could she be the epilogue POV? Or any character really, although Mel would seem likely to me.

[Loras]

You didn't like her in aSoS either? I'm not sure Jaime's transformation would have worked so neatly without somebody like Brienne to compare himself to.

Or to compare Cersei to.

SPOILERS

As for my list of chapters per person:

'Logue chapters: 2

- One of these is the Varamyr chapter, I doubt it would be possible to guess which character would be the epilogue character. I'm going to try anyway; the epilogue character will be connected to an event that Dany commits before she leaves Meereen at the end of the book, hopefully showing that there are consequences for her actions.

35 chapters concerning: Dany, Jon and Tyrion.

- Dany - 15 chapters

- Jon - 12 chapters

- Tyrion - 8 chapters

- I think that the vast majority of the Meereen PoVs will come from Dany. The story is about her growth as a character and ultimately as a queen. We are going to need to see her thought process and how she 'sees' each of her suitors, or possible allies through her own eyes. The other chapters featured in the Eastern storyline are going to be about building up each of the suitors and their motivations before they arrive. We are going to have our own ideas and opinions on what Dany should do and who she should trust and then see who she decides.

- Tyrion might be the exception to this rule, I expect his chapters to be top heavy, in terms of his own viewpoint chapters, but a heavily featured character in the chapters of other characters. He will have a travelouge style viewpoint as he travels through different free cities before finally giving us and insight into the character of Dany.

- Jon must have a high number of PoV chapters, as his is the B-storyline of the book and presumably only Melisandre (and possibly Asha) to share his location with.

The remaining characters: 36 chapters.

Concerning Named PoV characters: Theon, Davos, Arya, Cersei, Jaime, Melisandre and Bran Stark

Theon - 6 chapters

Davos - 4 chapters

Arya - 2 chapters

Cersei - 2 chapters

Jaime - 2 chapters

Melisandre - 3 chapters

Bran - 3 chapters

- Theon has been said to have the most chapters other than the 3 central characters. He should have quite a difficult journey through his PoV, as well as a number of events that he has to see: we know the contents of Reek 1, but then they have to retrieve 'Fake Arya', wed 'Fake Arya' and arrive at Winterfell... which is at least 4 chapters of material. Consider then that Asha may or may not be intertwined with the Theon PoV, I suspect that he must have at least 6 chapters in the book.

- Davos, I do not expect to survive meeting Lord Manderley in White Harbour. We know the contents of Davos 1 and Davos 2.

- Arya, I think GRRM has said that he wrote 3 Arya chapters but moved 1 of them to TWOW.

- Cersei, as above.

- Jaime, he could have a reaction chapter to the news regarding Cersei, or the Brotherhood could attempt to kill him on his way to King's Landing. The possibilities are endless for this one, though I did not expect him to be a viewpoint in this book at all.

- Melisandre, I expect her chapters in the later half of the book, but I think they will coincide with something major happening at the wall that warrants having a switch-between-PoV-Sequence (like the Red Wedding/Purple Wedding/Blackwater).

- Bran, like Sansa from AFFC.

The Guest PoVs: 14 chapters (Asha, Quentyn, Victarion, Areo, Ser Barristan, Mystery)

- Asha - 4 chapters

- Quentyn - 3 chapters

- Victarion - 3 chapters

- Areo - 1 chapter

- Barristan - 2 chapters

- Mystery - 1 chapter

* I expect all of these chapters to be named, eg. 'The Wayward Bride'.

- Asha - I could see Asha having a very prominent thread in this novel, indeed, as I have stated before, I expect the Ironborn to be the real movers and shakers in this section of the story. Asha and Victarion in particularly should push forward 2 prominent threads. We know the contents of Asha's first chapter 'The Wayward Bride', it follows then that she must meet with Stannis in the following Asha chapter, the last 2 chapters could involve her trying to recapture Theon from the Boltons. Note: that the fight for the Seastone Chair is going to be a subplot of the war between Stannis and Dany.

- Quentyn - as I mentioned before, I think we are more likely to see the Quentyn and Victarion chapters appear in the story prior to Meereen, to build up both of these characters significantly to the point where we can get an understanding of what they want and what they are all about.

- Areo - I think this chapter is going to show Doran's death. This is going to put Arianne in a position of power in Dorne, which could complicate matters for Dany - especially if Quentyn is killed in Meereen.

- Mystery - Could have 1 or 2 chapters... switch with one of Victarions. I suspect that this character will be involved with the ongoing fight with the Others at the wall.

[Zezibesh]

Under what ground? It's not as if Catelyn threw Joffrey off a tower and crippled him.

Most people find Jaime much more interesting and entertaining to read about.

[Valmy]

Most people find Jaime much more interesting and entertaining to read about.

Good thing this is not a democracy.

[Padraig]

Good thing this is not a democracy.

The point was whether unCat killing Brienne would move the plot away from its current supposed pro-Stark position. Personally, unCat's existence has done that job for me already. She represents the antithesis of Stark.

People's reactions to characters is interesting. :)

[Gaston de Foix]

Has it been actually confirmed that Mel is a main POV character, or could she be the epilogue POV? Or any character really, although Mel would seem likely to me.

Yes, I think it has been confirmed she's not the epilogue POV, which was my initial suspicion as well. George counts four new POVs in his Not a Blog entry dealing with Dance and expressly excludes the epilogue and prologue characters. We know the prologue character is Varamyr; three new characters are Melisandre, Quentyn and Barristan; the fourth is unknown. The epilogue is also unknown.

[Faint]

Jaime has certainly done bad things but unCat is a monster. Some people will want the monster to kill Jaime but I would have thought that most people wouldn't support the monster.

A monster in what way? Appearance? What has Catelyn done to deserve that title? Revenge herself on the Freys? If that's monstrous, then Jaime is positively a demon.

You might be right that people will support Jaime over her, but that has more to do with his popularity than his moral position. Strictly on those terms, Jaime loses to Catelyn badly.

I don't know about 20, but I think that TWOW will have as many POVs as necessary to make the story work. If that includes Brienne, then GRRM will make room for her. Honestly, the heavy lifting, story-wise, is explaining why Brienne goes from wanting to rescue Sansa to wanting to kill Jaime. Once she's on her new trajectory, GRRM may be able to tell the story with a single Brienne POV (to set up her new direction) and then have the rest play out in a Jaime POV as relevant.

In any case, I don't think that GRRM has to kill Brienne because he has too many POVs. I can think of three other POV characters more likely to die in ADWD: Davos, Ser Barristan, and Victarion.

I have to say, I think it pretty difficult to explain how Brienne escaped death by hanging and then spent whatever time passes in ADwD not doing that much. Catelyn, in her present condition, strikes me as the unequivocal type. The whole point of Brienne's last scene in AFfC was that she had no choice besides death or obedience. I suppose this could have been a misdirection, but then we have to either believe that Catelyn changed her mind or that Brienne was the beneficiary of a stupendous rescue mission. Needless to say, I find these possibilities remote in the extreme.

Another possibility is that Brienne lied about going to kill Jaime and is actually intending to go to Jaime to seek help in rescuing her companions. He'd be the only one who could realistically help her, so he'd be her choice. I'm not in love with the concept but at least it's plausible. Although, having said that, it would be doubtful she could actually save her companions this way and if that was her course of action, she'd be turning her back on Catelyn forever. More to the point, though, this scenario would still entail Brienne showing up in Jaime's POV.

And really, that's the main thrust of my argument anyway. Brienne is not in a holding pattern. She's facing death with only one way out. And if that wasn't enough, she's actually in pretty close proximity to Jaime at the end of AFfC. Which is to say, I don't see how she could possibly delay finding him and not get her companions killed. Which brings me once again to Catelyn. She's the one controlling Brienne's fate and she has already been clear on what that fate could be. So at the very least, barring a miraculous change of heart on Catelyn's part, I think Brienne most assuredly will show up in Jaime's POV.

I also think Brienne's story has to end within Jaime's, but that's more of an opinion than anything else. And I struggle to see the necessity for Brienne even continuing as an ongoing character in TWoW.

I don't buy that. Jaime's arc has increasingly taken him in the direction of assuming a position of leadership. His story (for the past book or more) is all about trying to be an responsible leader when everybody still thinks of him as the Kingslayer. His dealings with the Tullys are a good example of this dynamic. The logical culmination of that is to put Jaime in King's Landing facing off against Daenerys and Tyrion, neither of which can forgive him for the things that he did many years ago.If Jaime didn't go to King's Landing, then that would hurt the story in two ways. First, there's much less emotional resonance in Dany and Tyrion squaring off against Mace Tyrell (or Kevan, or anybody else in King's Landing) than Jaime Lannister. Secondly, it hurts Jaime's growth as a character if he ignores the leadership vacuum in King's Landing and the needs of his family to go handle some personal agenda.

I'm not going to bridge any divide here; we're operating from the same facts, so at this point, it's simply guess work and personal interpretation. Personally, I do think Jaime will make it back to King's Landing, but only after the Lannisters have completely collapsed and Tommen and Myrcella are both dead. Cue choking Cersei scene.

Beyond that, there are a lot of differences in the way me and you think events will play out. Firstly, I actually envision Daenerys having a pretty easy time getting the Iron Throne after she gets to Westeros and is able to shed whatever baggage she has carried over from Meereen (that will be the really difficult part). By the time she poses a coherent and tangible threat to King's Landing though, I envision things playing out in a rather straight forward manner. I think the Tyrells will jump ship as soon as Tommen and Myrcella are dead and they'll just bend knee. Everyone else falls into line except the Lannisters, who will simply crumble and be left to Daenery's mercy. Cersei might start getting ideas of burning down King's Landing rather than let Daenerys have it, which is where Jaime comes in. So, basically, I don't think there will be any great confrontation in the South between Daenerys and the reigning powers there. As for the North, that's another matter entirely.

In the more immediate future though, here are some wild guesses:

(1) I actually think Kevan will refuse to become Hand. I think he's sufficiently dispirited and disillusioned after Tywin's death, Tyrion's treachery, Jaime and Cersei's incest, Lancel's transformation, and his other son's death, that he'll simply wash his hands of his family at this point.

(2) Jaime, following the refusal, will try to seek out Littlefinger to become Hand, thinking of him as a compromise candidate for the Tyrells, not knowing of their mutual history together.

(3) During this time is when I think Brienne comes in and gets herself killed trying to fulfill her oath to Catelyn.

(4) Jaime, in the process of trying to contact Littlefinger -- and mind you, even if Jaime is headed towards King's Landing, he'll pass very close to the Vale -- will figure out where Sansa is via information coming down from the Eyrie.

Anyway, that's one little line of thinking I like quite a bit. Not too confident in any of it really -- except the Brienne parts -- but I much prefer it to having Jaime in King's Landing dealing with Mace Tyrell and the Faith.

[Valmy]

The point was whether unCat killing Brienne would move the plot away from its current supposed pro-Stark position. Personally, unCat's existence has done that job for me already. She represents the antithesis of Stark.

People's reactions to characters is interesting. :)

I don't know if somebody cut down my son in front of me and said 'Jaime Lannister sends his regards' I would hunt everybody responsible down and gut them from the grave to. Heck I think the hanging part is pretty merciful compared to what I would want to do.

I also cannot account for what my mental state would be after rotting in a river for a couple days.

[Steel_Wind]

About Brienne: if she is still alive, she has to hunt Jaime. There is no other way to survive UnCat's trial. So, there's no need of a Brienne chapter in ADwD.

Well of course, there is a way. It is to give your word to a dead woman and... then break it.

That is, in the end, what Brienne's future arc will be about. Will she keep her vow to a dead woman, a twisted creature of vengeance and hate, or understand that sometimes, the KNIGHTLY thing to do is to sacrifice your own personal honour in order that the lives of others be saved. Conversely, Jaime, who has already made that personal sacrifice and knows what it cost him, will be challenged with whether or not he will let Brienne sacrifice her own personal honour to save his own life, or allow her to keep her vow by dying at her hand.

It is an interesting setup which revisits Jaime's killing of Aerys and what it means to be a knight. When does one's own personal honour mean less and the lives of other(s) mean more? Where is the line to be drawn?

The fascinating thing is that we are no sure what either character will choose, and whether they will let the other's preferences "trump" their own sacrificial choice. Two-handed Jaime would never give up his life for another. One-handed Jaime, bereft of Cersei, a father, and a brother who now hates him may well decide that he's lived too long.

Point is: none of this is simple. It is the human heart at war with itself. It is also not simple for the reader: who would the reader rather see prevail? Catelyn's reasons for causing Brienne to hunt down Jaime are insufficient. Jaime, in the end, kept his vow to Catelyn that he gave at sword point while chained to a prison cell wall.

An interesting conundrum.

I'd still be far more satisfied if Arya resolved the whole problem in the guise of Nymeria -- as she rips out Stoneheart's throat and put an end to Catelyn Tully once and for all. *sigh* I fear it won't be that easy.

[RandAllThor]

Interesting snippet from Pat's Fantasy Hotlist:

"I was trying to get you an exclusive extract from GRRM's forthcoming A Dance With Dragons and suggested to Martin and his editor that perhaps we could go with the scene in which Yours Truly gets butchered quite violently. I had a feeling that whatever scene a character based on me met his bloody demise wouldn't have any sort of impact on the plot, that it would mainly be spoiler-free and hence make the perfect teaser excerpt.

Well, Anne Groell just told me that we can't go with that scene. It appears that Ser Patrek of King's Mountain meets his maker at the end of ADWD and the scene contains MAJOR spoilers. I was excited enough as it is, but now my curiosity is truly piqued! Anne assured me that it's a very good death, so I can't wait!!!"

I wonder if Ser Patrek will find himself entangled in the Meereenese knot (perhaps as a member of the Golden Company), on the Wall, or somewhere else. Perhaps we have our epilogue POV.

[Ellroy]

@Steel_Wind: thanks, very interesting and deep reply. You're right, it's not as simple as I made it but I was mostly joking about the duel/deaths thing :D. My only point is that we do not need a Brienne chapter to see the resolution of her cliffhanger. I think that it will be even stronger if the resolution come from Jaime's POV.

But I must say that (imho) you are too soft with Jaime and too hard with UnCat. Yes, it's impossible to simpathyze with the creature who has taken the place of Catelyn. But at the same time, if I consider all the things she has suffered since AGoT, what remains if not hatred and revenge? UnCat is a monster but at the same time "she" is terribly human.

While Jaime has never shown any form of sincere regret for the "things he has done for love". He has never shown a glimpse of true responsibility for all the things he has made. Not to mention he has break the oath to Catelyn helping the Lannister to take Riverrun (as far as I remember, correct me if I'm wrong). So I cannot sympathize with him neither. Yes, he is changing but it all feels too little and too late.

So, if Brienne betrays UnCat, I would feel cheated.

[Padraig]

A monster in what way? Appearance? What has Catelyn done to deserve that title? Revenge herself on the Freys? If that's monstrous, then Jaime is positively a demon.

Appearance and attitude. unCat is ruled by hate. Read what Thoros says about what the BwB has become. There is no honour in that.

There are many ways to get revenge on the Freys. (And its not that I have much sympathy for them). But the way unCat has gone about it is as immoral as she could get. There is no justice in it. Neither is there justice in killing Pod, Brienne or Ser Hyle. As I said, Jaime has done bad things but he is in a much better place than unCat is at the end of aFfC. And even in his worst of times, he was never a demon. I'm not sure what act you are thinking of when you say that? (Incest? Terrible act but not "demon" behaviour).

Jaime has indicated that he regrets throwing Bran but he isn't the kind of character that will cry over it.

I also cannot account for what my mental state would be after rotting in a river for a couple days.

Yes. That explains the genesis of unCat.

I have to say, I think it pretty difficult to explain how Brienne escaped death by hanging and then spent whatever time passes in ADwD not doing that much.

As you say, even without a POV, we could still see her. Not that GRRM couldn't give her an illness from her wounds if he wishes. That can waste a month.

At the end of aCoK, I imagine most people were saying that Davos continuing as a POV in aSoS would be rather redundant. Stannis's role was finished after all. :) So no, I would never state that I can't see how Brienne's story can't continue into tWoW

Oh and I expect Jaime to face Dany when she arrives. With Tommen around. I just can't see GRRM making things very easy for Dany. Its just not how he writes. :)

[Faint]

Appearance and attitude. unCat is ruled by hate. Read what Thoros says about what the BwB has become. There is no honour in that.

There are many ways to get revenge on the Freys. (And its not that I have much sympathy for them). But the way unCat has gone about it is as immoral as she could get. There is no justice in it.

What, pray, are the other methods? Should she ask King's Landing for justice? And has any of the Freys she has had killed been innocent? Who?

Neither is there justice in killing Pod, Brienne or Ser Hyle.

Presuming she has had them killed. And even if so, under the mistake impression they're on a mission to find Sansa and turn her over to Cersei.

As I said, Jaime has done bad things but he is in a much better place than unCat is at the end of aFfC. And even in his worst of times, he was never a demon. I'm not sure what act you are thinking of when you say that? (Incest? Terrible act but not "demon" behaviour).

Jaime has indicated that he regrets throwing Bran but he isn't the kind of character that will cry over it.

Yeah, you know, because Jaime never threatens to fling newborn babies against castle walls using catapults. Catelyn is always doing stuff like that.

If we had a current Catelyn POV instead of a Jaime POV and if we read Jaime's scenes via a Blackfish POV or an Edmure POV instead of through a Jaime or Brienne POV, things would look much different, I think.