GRRM's new Not a Blog post

[Lord Godric]

Has it been actually confirmed that Mel is a main POV character, or could she be the epilogue POV? Or any character really, although Mel would seem likely to me.

I think it has been confirmed that Mel will have at least two chapters, which suggests she is not the epilogue character.

Theon has been said to have the most chapters other than the 3 central characters.

Where was this said? Unless Theon has changed greatly, which is entirely possible, I think I will be very disappointed because I have never liked him.

[Steel_Wind]

Where was this said? Unless Theon has changed greatly, which is entirely possible, I think I will be very disappointed because I have never liked him.

George said it in the very blog post we are discussing.

As for Theon, I have some small sympathy for him already; post Ramsay and flaying, doubtless more. Alfie Allen's portrayal of Theon on the show is certainly aiding in that, too.

[Faint]

Where was this said? Unless Theon has changed greatly, which is entirely possible, I think I will be very disappointed because I have never liked him.

Click here if you want to read the blog post where he confirms that Theon has the most chapters besides the big three.

I'm only projecting, but I think that means he'll have at least 6 and possibly as many as 9 chapters.

[Lord Godric]

Click here if you want to read the blog post where he confirms that Theon has the most chapters besides the big three.

I'm only projecting, but I think that means he'll have at least 6 and possibly as many as 9 chapters.

Yeah, I read the post before but admittedly skimmed parts and that must have been a part.

George said it in the very blog post we are discussing.

As for Theon, I have some small sympathy for him already; post Ramsay and flaying, doubtless more. Alfie Allen's portrayal of Theon on the show is certainly aiding in that, too.

I almost hope GRRM can make me feel sympathetic for Theon, because as of right now I do not like his character (I don't like any of the Ironborn really). But for me to feel sympathetic towards Theon it would take a drastic change in character and for him to make real amends for what he did against House Stark. As for Alfie Allen, he is making me just like Theon even less.

[darrylzero]

I almost hope GRRM can make me feel sympathetic for Theon, because as of right now I do not like his character (I don't like any of the Ironborn really). But for me to feel sympathetic towards Theon it would take a drastic change in character and for him to make real amends for what he did against House Stark. As for Alfie Allen, he is making me just like Theon even less.

Theon's pretty insufferable, but I very much sympathize with him as a character (caught between two worlds, not really belonging in either), and seeing him as, er... not quite himself is going to be pretty intriguing. It seems pretty clear that he's going to be brought to his lowest point and then eventually snap, avenging some folks if not necessarily redeeming himself. That's the only real arc I can visualize, at least, but it's not really up to me (thank the gods), so we'll see.

You probably won't like him better, but I bet he's got something badass up his sleeve. And to be fair, he never really had a chance.

[Padraig]

What, pray, are the other methods? Should she ask King's Landing for justice?

As I said in my last post, this is what I meant by attitude. You can do justice in many ways. If Catelyn was still alive, she'd never have done what unCat has done. There is no mercy in it. in fact, there is no justice in it. Its just vengeance driven by pure hate.

You have to seperate the fact that Catelyn has a rightful grievance against the Frey's from unCat's actions against the Frey's. She doesn't particularly care about avoiding "mistaken impressions". Fanatics have such impressions all the time.

Not killing Brienne or Pod doesn't make her any better either. She should never have put them in that position in the first place.

Do we know how many Frey's she has killed? I was never comfortable with her killing Merrett Frey for passing out drunk at the RW. But its only when you hear people like Thoros talk about what Stoneheart has done to the BwB that you realise the full scale of her fall.

Yeah, you know, because Jaime never threatens to fling newborn babies against castle walls using catapults. Catelyn is always doing stuff like that.

If you believe he would have done that, fair enough. He is a monster.

If we had a current Catelyn POV instead of a Jaime POV and if we read Jaime's scenes via a Blackfish POV or an Edmure POV instead of through a Jaime or Brienne POV, things would look much different, I think.

No. unCat's POV would be like Hodor's. Instead of "Hodor, Hodor, Hodor". It'd be "Kill, Kill, Kill". There is a reason GRRM doesn't have an unCat POV.

[Chalky]

If you believe he would have done that, fair enough. He is a monster.

Only a fool would make threats he's not prepared to carry out :P

[Padraig]

Only a fool would make threats he's not prepared to carry out :P

So are you saying Jaime is a fool? :wideeyed:

Anyhow, you are only a fool if somebody calls you on it. :)

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I wonder if Ser Patrek will find himself entangled in the Meereenese knot (perhaps as a member of the Golden Company), on the Wall, or somewhere else. Perhaps we have our epilogue POV.

Yeah, that sounds like the epilogue POV to me.

[Bahimiron]

I'm pretty much guaranteeing beyond a shadow of a doubt right here and right now that the final POV will be Quaithe's brother, Herb of Asshai. He sells pre-owned camels and binds shadows at prices so low people have accused him of being crazy. He can afford to do it because he has no overhead, though.

[Chalky]

I'm pretty much guaranteeing beyond a shadow of a doubt right here and right now that the final POV will be Quaithe's brother, Herb of Asshai. He sells pre-owned camels and binds shadows at prices so low people have accused him of being crazy. He can afford to do it because he has no overhead, though.

Then its discovered he's secretly a Targaryen, like everyone else

[Thargor]

As I said in my last post, this is what I meant by attitude. You can do justice in many ways. If Catelyn was still alive, she'd never have done what unCat has done. There is no mercy in it. in fact, there is no justice in it. Its just vengeance driven by pure hate.

You have to seperate the fact that Catelyn has a rightful grievance against the Frey's from unCat's actions against the Frey's. She doesn't particularly care about avoiding "mistaken impressions". Fanatics have such impressions all the time.

Not killing Brienne or Pod doesn't make her any better either. She should never have put them in that position in the first place.

Do we know how many Frey's she has killed? I was never comfortable with her killing Merrett Frey for passing out drunk at the RW. But its only when you hear people like Thoros talk about what Stoneheart has done to the BwB that you realise the full scale of her fall.

GRRM spent quite a lot of time making Jamie a more sympathetic character. From the very start I had little sympathy for Cat though, springing from her lifelong refusal to treat Jon as part of the family. Now, I think that keeping Jon out of the fold was good for the book, but it never enamored Cat to me. Cat then died in a state of rage that set the tone for unCat. I would definitely pull for Jamie vs unCat. Shes changed the BWB from a force for justice into Brigands and Butchers.

Unknown POV guesses:

my first guess was Loras, or someone else on dragonstone relating the battle there. But there's no reason such a one-off type POV couldnt have been at the end of Feast.

2nd guess is someone like baby Aegon grown up, or a fake one.

my favorite guess from those I read on here was Lady Mormont or Glover or someone in that party, giving us some interaction with Howland Reed. I'd love that.

Also...

Long time lurker, 1st time poster :)

[Wouter]

Yeah, you know, because Jaime never threatens to fling newborn babies against castle walls using catapults. Catelyn is always doing stuff like that.

If we had a current Catelyn POV instead of a Jaime POV and if we read Jaime's scenes via a Blackfish POV or an Edmure POV instead of through a Jaime or Brienne POV, things would look much different, I think.

Good point. I remember in one of Jaime's POV's, that he (his troop) was hanging brigands - as does his ally Tarly. His "justice" looks a lot like the justice of Uncat does - just hang those from the other side that you can catch.

Not too mention, Jaime is one of those who originally ravaged the riverlands to start with, as such nice fellows as Gregor and his merry band (and the sellswords who took his hand, later on) worked for his dad and they were "colleagues" in the Lannister army attacking the Tullys. In AFFC, Jaime eventually completes this "good work" from Tywin by bludgeoning his way into Riverrun, contrary to his oath to Catelyn not to take up arms against the Tullys after his release. It's no wonder that UnCat wants him dead, badly. Brienne was unlucky that circumstances made it look like she, too, had turned traitor and was now actively working for the Lannisters. UnCat may be a monster now in some ways, but her deeds are still not quite as monstrous as what some more or less sane people (like Tywin, like Roose, like Cersei, like the new High Septon) have done in the series.

Another problem with wanting Jaime to defeat UnCat is that this also implies that a good chunk of the Brotherhood will be killed by Jaime's man, in that scenario. Including Thoros, as things stand (don't recall offhand if Gendry is still with this part of the BWB). There may be some fairly cruel men among them, but then would this not be true of Jaime's army as well, especially considering how unscrupulous Lannister armies have tended to behave in this series (starting with the sacking of KL after Aerys' let them in)?

Jaime may be an interesting character to read about and it is nice that the readers can relate to his POV - but don't forget that in the riverlands, he is the agressor when it comes down to it. The Lannister armies have wrecked the place since AGOT.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

UnCat may be a monster now in some ways, but her deeds are still not quite as monstrous as what some more or less sane people (like Tywin, like Roose, like Cersei, like the new High Septon) have done in the series.

I'm not entirely sure what the new High Septon is doing on this list.

[Wouter]

I'm not entirely sure what the new High Septon is doing on this list.

The High Septon has people tortured to extort confessions from them; IIRC he took a page out of Qyburn's book, at least on the Kettleblack he has in custody, and possibly on the other people that Cersei already had tortured. He has a bit of that inquisition feeling over him.

[Padraig]

Another problem with wanting Jaime to defeat UnCat is that this also implies that a good chunk of the Brotherhood will be killed by Jaime's man, in that scenario.

I was more arguing in a theoretic sense rather than Lannisters v BwB. I've no love for the Lannisters.

I was having a flick through what Thoros says to Brienne. "War makes monsters of us all". I hadn't realised "monster" plays such a role in their conversation. But I don't compare unCat with Tywin or Roose. Both of the latter are driven by their desire for power. unCat is driven by hate and vengeance. Tywin could still love. unCat can't.

I do compare unCat to Cat. I didn't love the Starks because they killed prisoners. The Starks were better than that.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

The High Septon has people tortured to extort confessions from them...

So does Dany, in the third ADWD spoiler chapter, and Qhorin Halfhand, after capturing a wildling. That doesn't make it right, of course, but I don't think it makes the High Septon a monster for sharing in a broadly accepted cultural practice.

[Wouter]

I was more arguing in a theoretic sense rather than Lannisters v BwB. I've no love for the Lannisters.

I was having a flick through what Thoros says to Brienne. "War makes monsters of us all". I hadn't realised "monster" plays such a role in their conversation. But I don't compare unCat with Tywin or Roose. Both of the latter are driven by their desire for power. unCat is driven by hate and vengeance. Tywin could still love. unCat can't.

Which is why UnCat is a tragic character, and it would be better for her to die for good sooner rather than later. And it would not be pleasant if any of her surviving children ever see her in this state.

But I'm still not going to root for Jaime to get the better of her and her group (military speaking). For all of UnCat being a monster and this part of the BWB being a loose cannon, they are still by far not the worst armed group in Westeros. From the Lannister perspective, they are bandits but then the Lannister forces are bandits from the perspective of the BWB and the people in the riverlands in general. Neither side is very willing to give quarter, though neither side has yet sunk to the lows of Gregor and his ilk yet (both still nominally claim to be doing justice - from their perspective).

Tywin could still love, but that didn't stop him from using such tools as Gregor and Amory Lorch. That makes him actually worse than UnCat, who can't really help being the way she is now.

[Wouter]

So does Dany, in the third ADWD spoiler chapter, and Qhorin Halfhand, after capturing a wildling. That doesn't make it right, of course, but I don't think it makes the High Septon a monster for sharing in a broadly accepted cultural practice.

Somehow I don't see Ned taking part in this "broadly accepted cultural practice", though. Anyway, hanging your enemies is clearly also very broadly accepted cultural practice (I could see Ned doing this) as is taking revenge on houses who betrayed their oath to you, so no particular harm in what UnCat does then?

Dany can be very hard and cruel, witness also what she did in Astapor and with Mirri Mas Duur, for that matter. She is certainly no saint even by Westerosi standards. With the High Septon though, I wonder why he had the Kettleblack tortured - after all he supposedly had 'confessed' already at that point, and the High Septon had Margaery arrested over his accusations. Is it standard procedure for him to also have the accusing side tortured to find out who is lying? Did he have any clue that the Kettleblack was actually making things up for Cersei? Maybe I'm reading him wrong or remembering it wrong, but I did get the impression the High Septon doesn't need much of a provocation before he turns to such drastic methods.

Was anything mentioned about the blue bard and others tortured by Qyburn, what did the High Septon do with them?

[Padraig]

For all of UnCat being a monster and this part of the BWB being a loose cannon, they are still by far not the worst armed group in Westeros.

True. While I don't like unCat, the BwB's focus isn't on raping and pillaging. She is a monster in a different way.

I suppose my original point was that Brienne's death wouldn't change people's minds. If you prefer Jaime to unCat, you probably will even if Cat killed Brienne.

The more I think about it, the more I like what GRRM did with the BwB. There is no way that a force like that could retain its purity. That kind of guerrila warfare is too vicious and bitter.