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Ran

[NO SPOILERS] EP107 Discussion

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Spoiler discussion-free for Episode 7, "You Win or You Die", for when it airs on HBO Go. Please do not post prior to that time.

Note that this is a TEMPORARY discussion area; when the episode airs properly, this thread will be closed.

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From a Newbie - non book reader

SAD KING BILLY asked: anyway, I was wondering how people who haven't read the books view littlefinger. Was he the more ambiguous character I saw him in my first read-through, or is he the evil schemer the fans see? In other words, is his betrayal foreseen or does it come as a complete shock?

I had no clue he would betray Ned. I had no clue he was talking about anything during the sex scene. I see the Lion/Stag issue NOW with the deer being cleaned by "the lion"... but to me the FIRST THING i thought of wasn't "hey, look at the symbolism", it was "you're kidding, he's doing this in a tent? And all the crap/blood is going to get on the guys who walk into the tent and take the tent down and pack it up, etc.". But I'm in the restaurant biz and can't stand dirty floors.

MODEHEAD wrote: Ned's scenes are borderline parody in this episode. Here are some questions a non-reader is asking:

Why didn't Ned tell Robert about his son, even on his deathbed? YEP

Why bother warning Cersei? YEP

Why didn't Robert keep witnesses in the room when he named Ned the protector? YEP

I watched two episodes today - have seen all of them within a 2 week span. I don't have the names down like most of you folk. I can't for the life of me remember who RENLY is - so I need to go rewatch 7.

But HERE IS MY TAKE ON THE SERIES.... this thing could go on for 10 years on HBO because "they" are introducing us to a whole new world... and its HUGE. I thought this episode was a bit slow, and its got a LOT of breadth. Still lots of character development, which is fine for me, but like many series', its just something that has to be done and suffer through the slow parts. Seems to me y'all aren't even happy 100% about whats being put on the screen compared to the books, but I'm just along for the ride and just take whatever they give. I like the setting/genre and have no expectations.

I remember back to BABYLON 5 and its intricate story arc. I didn't like it in its first year but it was amazing. Poor ratings made it get cut short and almost not get finished. But JMS had the story in his head - I just hope the author here has a n-year storyline worked out. Hope it sticks around.

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What Ayra said. This is, as they say, the No Spoiler thread.

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From a Newbie - non book reader

SAD KING BILLY asked: anyway, I was wondering how people who haven't read the books view littlefinger. Was he the more ambiguous character I saw him in my first read-through, or is he the evil schemer the fans see? In other words, is his betrayal foreseen or does it come as a complete shock?

I had no clue he would betray Ned. I had no clue he was talking about anything during the sex scene. I see the Lion/Stag issue NOW with the deer being cleaned by "the lion"... but to me the FIRST THING i thought of wasn't "hey, look at the symbolism", it was "you're kidding, he's doing this in a tent? And all the crap/blood is going to get on the guys who walk into the tent and take the tent down and pack it up, etc.". But I'm in the restaurant biz and can't stand dirty floors.

MODEHEAD wrote: Ned's scenes are borderline parody in this episode. Here are some questions a non-reader is asking:

Why didn't Ned tell Robert about his son, even on his deathbed? YEP

Why bother warning Cersei? YEP

Why didn't Robert keep witnesses in the room when he named Ned the protector? YEP

I watched two episodes today - have seen all of them within a 2 week span. I don't have the names down like most of you folk. I can't for the life of me remember who RENLY is - so I need to go rewatch 7.

But HERE IS MY TAKE ON THE SERIES.... this thing could go on for 10 years on HBO because "they" are introducing us to a whole new world... and its HUGE. I thought this episode was a bit slow, and its got a LOT of breadth. Still lots of character development, which is fine for me, but like many series', its just something that has to be done and suffer through the slow parts. Seems to me y'all aren't even happy 100% about whats being put on the screen compared to the books, but I'm just along for the ride and just take whatever they give. I like the setting/genre and have no expectations.

I remember back to BABYLON 5 and its intricate story arc. I didn't like it in its first year but it was amazing. Poor ratings made it get cut short and almost not get finished. But JMS had the story in his head - I just hope the author here has a n-year storyline worked out. Hope it sticks around.

Nice to hear from someone who hasn't read the books. I'm probably not alone in being curious as to what others in your position think of the series.

And don't feel bad about not remembering some of the names. The books had appendices outlining who was who and in what house, etc., to help us along. I know I referred to them continually during my read(s) of the series.

Now, on to the Ned questions.

Ned didn't tell Robert about his son on his deathbed in a misguided attempt to ease the man's passing, IIRC. He felt it would have been the utmost in cruelty to drop that particular bombshell on him as the man was done for at that point. Yeah, to us it's a pretty stupid move, but Ned's not really known for doing the clever thing, more the honorable thing.

And, really, what would it have mattered at that point?

Who would they have kept in the room as witnesses and why couldn't the witness have been disposed of by the queen?

As for why bother warning Cersei, that's just another example of our guy being the nice guy who finishes last. He's obviously misjudging the situation.

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Just with the title, I knew it'd have been a great episode.

When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There's no middle ground.

Such a catchy line.

Gotta love Cersei :bowdown:

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