Syrio Forel = Jaqen H'ghar?

[jellydonut]

The many-faced god seems like something the Faceless Men revere more than 'ordinary' Braavosi townfolk would. To me then, the reference means Syrio is one of them.

My personal theory is: Syrio is, or was, a Faceless Man. Buut probably not Jaqen.

[Talleyrand]

The many-faced god seems like something the Faceless Men revere more than 'ordinary' Braavosi townfolk would. To me then, the reference means Syrio is one of them.

My personal theory is: Syrio is, or was, a Faceless Man. Buut probably not Jaqen.

Wait are toy saying that Syrio's not Jaqen or Jaqen's not a faceless man?

[Horza]

Toys aren't saying anything.

Everyone who isn't Aegon VI is a Faceless Man.

[Horza]

or a merman.

[Talleyrand]

or a merman.

Or a faceless merman

[Herba]

It's a question because there's no suggestion at all that Trant has *any* interest in capturing him. Therefore if he was in a position where Syrio is incapacitated, he'd just kill him.

The simple fact that he is suppose to be a dancing instructor and obviously is not is a reason to capture him for later questioning. Also he has black curly hair and go check what faces Jaqen takes at the end of book 2. And there is the god of death thing. It looks like the TV series is giving hints that book 1 is not.

[Marcus Adler]

I've already staked my name on the assertion that Syrio, though a talented Braavosi (who may or may not have involvement with the faceless men), is most definitely NOT Jaqen H'Ghar. I have many reasons, but I've given them a dozen times now, and they're fairly easy to see if you look. In short, it's too obvious -- the moment the reader sees he's a Braavosi, they say "hey! There's only one other Braavosi in the story so far... Syrio... is Jaqen Syrio?" And that's just too obvious for me.

But as a writer, I can honestly say if GRRM was planning on making them the same character (without it being part of some larger supernatural character) he wouldn't have written it this way. Arya has been involved with the Braavosi since book one -- the other characters have not. If a singular Braavosi were the reason for that, there would be foreshadowing, allusions, evidence -- all sorts of evidence, as GRRM employs a number of clues before his revelations that aren't impossible to notice. I also know a few people who were able to guess a number of the story's "mysteries" because GRRM leaves you the clues to determine them. Having Syrio also be Jaqen H'Ghar would be amateurish of him, and far less predicted than other "twists" in the plot.

In short, I just can't see GRRM revealing his brilliant "plot twist" in having Syrio be Jaqen when it's so obvious, and not nearly as brilliant a revelation as the genre typically demands.

[Dragonfish]

The simple fact that he is suppose to be a dancing instructor and obviously is not is a reason to capture him for later questioning. Also he has black curly hair and go check what faces Jaqen takes at the end of book 2. And there is the god of death thing. It looks like the TV series is giving hints that book 1 is not.

1. I don't think Meryn Trant would give a damn. Certainly when he came upon Syrio and Arya fighting, he didn't say, "Woh! This dancing master is actually a swordfighter! Take him alive, boys!" Instead, he directly told his men to kill him. Most likely Meryn's goal was to do the same, once his men were thoroughly beaten. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who cared about capturing people alive, especially when everyone in the Red Keep associated with the Starks was being slaughtered

2. Syrio is bald. And anyway, if he were a faceless man, why would the fact that he had black curly hair matter? He can change his frickin' face and hairstyle at will, to practically anything he wants. If Jaqen's new face looked like Syrio, Arya would have mentioned it.

3. The "god of death" point means little. The fact that Syrio is from Braavos could easily explain why he mentions this. And anyway, this conversation is from the show, and the show is not canon.

[Cop out]

A little sentence in ACoK could be a hint for this, when Arya describes Jaqen as 'dancing' away from an attack.

[Baramos]

This theory, or should I say the need and desire for this theory, never made any sense to me. There can't be two Braavosi in all of Westeros? Why is a magic assassin hanging out teaching Arya Stark how to swordfight? Some people say it is to get closer to Eddard and see what he is doing, but it seems like a supremely terrible way to do that. H'Ghar appears to have a larger game plan going from what we see of him in A Feast for Crows. Why would he waste all his time teaching Arya when he apparently wanted to get to the Citadel and complete his mission but for some reason or other got put in jail?

Besides which it kind of demeans Syrio. You all don't think Bravo Water Dancer Swordsmen are cool enough, he has to actually be an assassin that can shapeshift at will, too. Syrio is perfectly cool enough without being a faceless man.

[Bajaz]

NO,he was without a weapon and knight was in full armor,and he was a bit angry :)

[Raisin Bran]

In the TV show, they show Jaqen wearing a hooded cloak. I think something simple like that might hide his face from Yoren if Yoren only glanced at him a couple times. Just sayin'!

In any case, Syrio lives. Not showing his death = sketch as hell. I hope he pops up later out of his little Braavosi toaster! :D

[Swift]

In any case, Syrio lives. Not showing his death = sketch as hell.

Confirmed: Balon Greyjoy is a faceless man.

[Yan Pinkas]

I didn`t read all the previous topics about this theory, so excuse me if this was discussed already.

Yoren picked the Rorge-Biter-Jaken trio from KL dungeons, presumably just before all hell broke loose there. Meaning, before the Syrio vs Meryn encounter. So how Syrio can be Jaken? Maybe he can change his face, but he can`t be in two places simultaneously.

I think Syrio is dead. Mainly because I don`t think that he would leave Arya to her fate at Flea Bottom, if he would survive.

Arya just fled the room before Meryn killed him, so we didn`t see it.

It never occurred to me to wonder about Syrio, before I visited the fan forums. It`s not really that interesting.

[Black Crow]

I'd just make a couple of points on this one;

Firstly Syrio might well have been a dancing master as well as a fencing instructor. In the 18th century it was very common to be both since the kind of fencing which Syrio teaches is physically very akin to dancing.

Secondly its significant that we don't get a graphic description of Syrio's death or his corpse. GRRM has a history of cliff hanging chapter endings with characters seemingly about to meet a sticky end only to turn up again later.

The question of timing has also been brought up as in Yoren apparently being given the prisoners before Eddard Stark took their place in the black cells. I don't see this as a problem. Eddard may well have signed them over before he got his, but unless Yoren was a complete idiot he'll have said thank you very much and can you keep them secure for me until I'm ready to leave - and by the time he is ready to leave Syrio is down there too...

[Lummel]

Everyone who isn't Aegon VI is a Faceless Man.

Aegon VI wasn't a faceless man :stunned: !

The question of timing has also been brought up as in Yoren apparently being given the prisoners before Eddard Stark took their place in the black cells. I don't see this as a problem. Eddard may well have signed them over before he got his, but unless Yoren was a complete idiot he'll have said thank you very much and can you keep them secure for me until I'm ready to leave - and by the time he is ready to leave Syrio is down there too...

The detail behind the question of timing comes from Jaime's conversation with Longwaters in AFFC. Longwaters details who precisely was in the black cells until when and released by whose order in a pedantic manner. He makes it clear that he was unhappy with the trio of rorge, biter and Jaqen being released. It's absolutely clear from that conversation that there was not a lot going on down in the black cells, there were never more than the prisoners we already knew about from the text: the black cells three, eddard, Pycelle and Tyrion and there never was an extra person, not even the merest hint of an extra person who could be imagined to have been syrio.

So for Syrio=Jaqen to work, syrio has to not only escape the red keep, he has to smuggle himself into Yoren's party and Yoren we know kept the black cells three in chains.

If you're believing in Syrio=jaqen you have to attribute a huge range of skills, abilities, and knowledge or a secret conspiracy to Syrio to make it work, or potentially levels of precognition and nymphette obsession that would amaze Paul Atredies and Humbert Humbert.

[Horza]

Aegon VI wasn't a faceless man :stunned: !

And you doubted the cosmic wisdom of Horza. :ph34r:

Anyway, I'm sure Syrio is going to burst back on the scene in the Winds of Winter to repair those deficiencies that have crept into Arya's technique over the last few years,

[The Brown Knight]

What would Jaqen be doing in the cells in the first place? He is a Faceless Man, why the hell was he in the black cells to begin with? That raises suspicions to me. Something is not as it seems. If Jaqen was looking for a way out of KL, he could have just volunteered for the NW, slipped a new face on if need be and rode out of the city, the possibilities for him to leave KL are endless. If he got caught then the Faceless Men aren't as badass as we presume (which I don't think is the case).

Everyone arguing about Syrio living, and getting to the cells is making a crackpot theory, to be sure. However, what the hell was Jaqen doing down there to begin with? I'm not saying Syrio is Jaqen, but it's entirely possible that there is some connection.

I thought the TV show hinted at it too. The portrayal of Syrio's image, hairstyle, and look is nearly a dead on description of Jaqen after he changes his face. We're missing a scar! A scar that could have been made by Trant before he was knocked out or Syrio fled after disarming Trant? WHo knows, either way I really enjoy both characters! If they are different people, so be it! IF they are the same, man I REALLY like whoever the person turns out to be.

[mormont]

Secondly its significant that we don't get a graphic description of Syrio's death or his corpse.

is it? Lots of people die offscreen and we never get a graphic description of their death or their corpse. The Magnar of Thenn, for example: at least as significant a character as Syrio.

Sometimes when people die offscreen, they're just dead.

[Black Crow]

is it? Lots of people die offscreen and we never get a graphic description of their death or their corpse. The Magnar of Thenn, for example: at least as significant a character as Syrio.

Sometimes when people die offscreen, they're just dead.

Perfectly true, but in this case Syrio was a little more than just "noises off".