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[BOOK SPOILERS] Night's Watch Oath Abridged?!


El Hajjaj

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Watching Episode 7 last night, I was flabbergasted that they cut three clauses out of the Night's Watch oath!

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Why the hell would they do that? It wouldn't have taken more than 10 seconds of screen time -- time that could easily have been cut out of the Littlefinger Ass-play extravaganza. I'm more confused than anything.

Anyone have any idea why the screenwriters/directors/editors made this decision? Anyone else notice this omission? "I am the horn that wakes the sleepers" is my favorite part!

My completely uninformed guess is that it's to do with the rhythm of threes.

They've cut it to the person saying they are three things: the sword, the watcher, the shield.

Generally, in most speeches and in most writing, things are presented in groups of threes, (I will take no wife, hold no lands, father no children), which gives a nice rhythm and impact. Add in a few more things (the horn, the fire, the light) and it becomes a list, which is boring to hear and hard to retain.

Also, a sword in the darkness, a watcher on the walls and a shield are all pretty clear images, they make sense to tv viewers, and they fit clearly with what the NW is presented as being. The horn that wakes the sleepers does refer to a wee part of their job but isn't necessary (or obvious if you haven't read book 2) and could be a bit confusing. The fire that burns against the cold* and the light that brings the dawn are metaphors that don't add much.

* yes, yes, jump in with the stuff about using fire when Mormont is attacked later on. But in the vow it is a metaphor

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So wait, is this a thread about cutting the oath or just another thread about bashing Ros, cuz most of the replies here seem to be "yeah it sucks, blah blah blah I hate Ros"

I thought it was fine, I didn't even notice that they cut part of it.

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Not going to say much, other than I thought the scene worked just fine, and I loved the warmth of the rangers and the boys when they hug after the oath. Saying the vows and taking them seriously is important (obviously) but the Night's Watch are brothers with no one else to depend on. I thought this captured that perfectly, in very little screen time.

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They took out several seconds of screen time from a vow that is very important to the story to put in 5 minutes of LF+naked prostitutes in training(part I don't recall about reading in the books).

And to those who say the missing part has no real value or meaning, guess/read again.

I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers.

First part is a warning that strikes very close to the Others(cold), and the best defense against them(fire). But warning about the enemies that forced the people of Westeros to raise an enormous magic wall and the best way to fight them is not as important than teaching a a whore to pleasure another.

I do believe Ros will find all these advices LF gave her very useful when the wraiths will come banging at her door.

The light that brings the dawn. You know, the ending of the Long Night, when the Others will finally be defeated...the main reason for which the Night Watch was created, other than a dumping ground for undesirable characters, unwanted heirs(the no wife, no heirs, no crown part) and retirement home for out of use lordlings and knights(no glory).

It's not very important for anyone to know the NW will play a big part in that final battle(as they did in the past, in the final assault against the Others).

The horn that wakes the sleepers? Bugger that, we don't need to know about any weapon that can be used against an unstoppable army of undead creatures.

They should have left the damn vow how it was in the book, or at least keep the part about the Sleepers.

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They took out several seconds of screen time from a vow that is very important to the story to put in 5 minutes of LF+naked prostitutes in training(part I don't recall about reading in the books).

And to those who say the missing part has no real value or meaning, guess/read again.

I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers.

First part is a warning that strikes very close to the Others(cold), and the best defense against them(fire). But warning about the enemies that forced the people of Westeros to raise an enormous magic wall and the best way to fight them is not as important than teaching a a whore to pleasure another.

I do believe Ros will find all these advices LF gave her very useful when the wraiths will come banging at her door.

The light that brings the dawn. You know, the ending of the Long Night, when the Others will finally be defeated...the main reason for which the Night Watch was created, other than a dumping ground for undesirable characters, unwanted heirs(the no wife, no heirs, no crown part) and retirement home for out of use lordlings and knights(no glory).

It's not very important for anyone to know the NW will play a big part in that final battle(as they did in the past, in the final assault against the Others).

The horn that wakes the sleepers? Bugger that, we don't need to know about any weapon that can be used against an unstoppable army of undead creatures.

They should have left the damn vow how it was in the book, or at least keep the part about the Sleepers.

I always thought the "horn that wakes the sleepers" was the horn from the top of the wall that is blown by those on guard duties to wake the rest of the watch.

once for returning rangers

twice for wildlings

three times for Others

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They took out several seconds of screen time from a vow that is very important to the story to put in 5 minutes of LF+naked prostitutes in training(part I don't recall about reading in the books).

And to those who say the missing part has no real value or meaning, guess/read again.

I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers.

First part is a warning that strikes very close to the Others(cold), and the best defense against them(fire). But warning about the enemies that forced the people of Westeros to raise an enormous magic wall and the best way to fight them is not as important than teaching a a whore to pleasure another.

I do believe Ros will find all these advices LF gave her very useful when the wraiths will come banging at her door.

The light that brings the dawn. You know, the ending of the Long Night, when the Others will finally be defeated...the main reason for which the Night Watch was created, other than a dumping ground for undesirable characters, unwanted heirs(the no wife, no heirs, no crown part) and retirement home for out of use lordlings and knights(no glory).

It's not very important for anyone to know the NW will play a big part in that final battle(as they did in the past, in the final assault against the Others).

The horn that wakes the sleepers? Bugger that, we don't need to know about any weapon that can be used against an unstoppable army of undead creatures.

They should have left the damn vow how it was in the book, or at least keep the part about the Sleepers.

Or it could mean none of that, and just be more symbolic messages like the 3 preceding it.

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I was disappointed with that scene as well, but for a slightly different reason: I think it is one of the most poignant examples of GRRM's talent as a writer. He is such a masterful storyteller, world builder, character developer, suspense weaver...I could go on. Then somewhere out of the gritty, muddy, snow-whorled, bawdy, bloody, and backstabbing land of Westeros, emerges a crystalline jewel of a poem which is that oath.

I could have at least used some musical score in that scene, to draw attention to its solemnity and sheer beauty. You knelt as boys, now rise as Men of the Night's Watch. This oath is a rite of passage from youth to adulthood, and contrasts with how the other Stark kids got unceremoniously separated and scattered, essentially left to fend for themselves with no transition whatsoever.

I also believe that every word of it is important and symbolic, much like the dreams and prophesies, and even fool's ravings, are. All these characters have individual goals at stake, from simple survival to that cursed Throne. And yet, the stakes are so much higher than many of them know (Dany invasion)...and yet the stakes are looming even higher than that: Even Dany doesn't yet grasp the tug-of-war brewing between the supernaturals reawakening beyond the wall, and at the opposite pole, Asshai.

The warnings are in the oaths and prophesies, but while lots of people have pieces, nobody can see the full picture. There is delicious anticipation for us Bookwalkers, because we have more pieces. For HBO viewers, I think it is a good idea to establish the ultimate stakes, which they did in the prologue, but then periodically to remind us that those stakes are beyond imagining. In this episode, Osha's mutterings about fleeing south helped with that. But that gorgeous and momentous Oath should have been given great significance -- driving home that powerless but resolute boys are tasked to defend the realm, and they take on the responsibility with honor.

So yeah, I am smarting that they would cut any lines of that oath, and instead give me such loud whore sound effects that it was a chore to listen to LittleFinger's villain speech.

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I did hope that scene would be more epic, though. It was pretty boring. They looked bored, reciting the vow.

On the other hand, I was glad that the sound recording of the recitation of the vow was done in such a way that you could understand what they were saying. It's rather tricky to do this.

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I think it would be really cool if at some point Sam finds an old copy of the oath and they learn it used to be longer. That the oath itself becomes one of the the things Mormont laments that the Watch has forgotten. Not bloody likely, but it would be a great plot point and much better than just establishing they've forgotten how to kill wights with fire and Others with obsidian.

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Wow, I wish I was surprised that people are upset/angry/confused/whining about such a pointless and meaningless sentence being cut from the scene.

I'm not sure what your point is. We're not allowed to dislike things? Our reaction to the scene is somehow "wrong" and the way we experience entertainment is "wrong"? Are you saying that because the overall episode is great that it is impossible for there to be any mistakes in it at all? Are you saying that you just dislike reading opinions that don't conform to yours? Clarify, please.

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The important parts of the vow were there: Their watch will not end until they die, father no children, take no wife. All things that Jon fails at to one degree or another.

I would have happily traded 5 seconds less of Ros for the full thing though.

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Hilarious!! :laugh:

Henceforth, I declare we blame everything on Ros. And trust me, I will do my best to contribute. After all, she's become the-most-prominent-character-who-never-was. I swear, if I see Ros again in the next episode, I'll laugh out loud, no matter what allegedly tense or important stuff is going on. She's become the Fonz jumping the shark. Will Ned get out of this sticky situation? I don't know--where's Ros to let us know? Will Joff succeed as King, Jr? Quick, find Ros, she'll clue us in! Ayra and Sansa, back home safe in Winterfell, or not? Ros, where are you? We need your vital input!

I'm smirking, of course, but feel a bit ill at the same time. A thousand astonishing characters in these books, most of whom we'll never see. But we do see--again and again and again and again.....

Ros. :ack:

For real- are they just going to make Ros super mobile have her stand in for all the important whores? And how would she, a whore on turnip wagon from a little town north of nowhere, ever get into Littlefinger's Brothel- which I must imagine is the most prestigious in the seven kingdoms? Are we sure Ros doesn't have tusks??? I think I might have just solved King Robert's murder!

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I know it's super cool to bash people complaining about changes and dismiss their opinions as somehow unenlightened and obsessive but i think GRRMs books are so delicately balanced that every change worries me.

The core story is good but its the little things that make it great. The innocuous words or actions that serve as foreshadowing, the way you can be suprised by an outcome but look back and see the path to it out in the open, the way that characters and their motivations are kept ambiguous and your opinion of them constantly shifts as they're delayered. The TV show has lost so much of that by laying things bare or skipping lines or whole scenes. It may be a lot of seemingly innocuous things bit for me it makes the show considerably weaker.

As mentioned it's not as simple as sacrificing depth for accessibility. Adding a few lines in may be utterly meaningless at the time but when future events happen people get a kick out of seeing the meaning in things and it makes rewatches rewarding iff you can recognise portntous lines.

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I think it would be really cool if at some point Sam finds an old copy of the oath and they learn it used to be longer. That the oath itself becomes one of the the things Mormont laments that the Watch has forgotten. Not bloody likely, but it would be a great plot point and much better than just establishing they've forgotten how to kill wights with fire and Others with obsidian.

Hadn't thought about it like this, but that would be a very cool reason for change. When he is searching for the maps, he finds a diary containing the words a brother said 800 years ago. Interesting idea.

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I know it's super cool to bash people complaining about changes and dismiss their opinions as somehow unenlightened and obsessive but i think GRRMs books are so delicately balanced that every change worries me.

Dismissing those people's opinions as that they are just trying to be cool is every bit as bad as someone that says that people that don't like things are unenlightened, or saying that criticism is just an attempt to be cool. No fruitful thing will ever come out of that.

As for obsessing, that's actually a pretty well suited word for choosing to take part in discussions about some words being missing from a long vow. I can't know what experiences other people have with adaptations from books and I've only seen a fraction of what's been done but this is one of the most faithful adaptations I've ever seen, all things considered, and most adaptations take far more liberties with the source material. If some people expected the show to be able to match the books then I'm inclined to think they had extremely unrealistic expectations. So in my opinion we've pretty much for the first time gotten people willing to put in a lot of money and effort into creating a high quality fantasy series and trying to stay pretty faithful to the books, and we still have plenty of fans spending the majority of their posting on discussing what's bad about it.

People are free to have whatever opinions they like and people will honestly think differently about things. I think the people focusing mainly on the positives will generate more enjoyment for themselves than the ones focusing on the negatives so I'm trying to do the former.

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I think the oath turned out great in the episode... Definitely one of my favorite scenes in the show so far.

And yes, I have read the books. And I don't think the dropped parts are significant. I find most of the reaction in this thread very amusing.

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They shortened it because it really doesn't matter very much, and it's an adaptation, and they knew only a handful of retentive uber-nerds are going to cry about it on a forum.

That is an uber-mature and balanced way to explain the situation. I tip my hat to you. And to all others who make similar comments. A real help those.

But I digress.

Yeah, it bothered me a little that they cut down a part of the Vow. They were only a few words, but it just so happened that they were important. I don't think it's such a big deal, no, but considering how much less-important scenes we had in this episode (see what I did there? :P), I have no clue why they chose to cut down 5 seconds from that scene. Meh.

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Indeed. To those who say that it's such a trivial and minor change and that we shouldn't worry about it because it doesn't matter, well, it's all too easy to flip it backwards and say, "if it's just two lines of text, why DID they remove it?"

Keeping the lines would have not have used more time (5 seconds top) and would have kept the fanboys happy. Plus the lines are cool and well written, so it's not like they removed it because it sounded stupid. So why did they?

Maybe they wrote the screenplay from memory and just forgot the lines? :lol:

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