[Book Spoilers] EP106 Discussion Part Two

[Abaddon]

He definitely knew what he was doing. Cersei all but flips her lid when she finds out that he survives the Blackwater and becomes all pious because of everything he knows.

Isn't that more because she's had carnal relations with him, though?

[Rangers30]

Regarding the hunting, considering the amount of hunting "accidents" that seemed to take out royalty back in the day, I find the lack of a crowd somewhat believable. It would've been hard for all those so called accidents to have worked if there were too many witnesses.

[Maia]

Having them on horseback with horns and dogs would make sense if they were hunting foxes, but they were hunting boar which is done on foot, with blades.

Nope. Boars can run much more quickly than people, which is why they were hunted on horseback, with boar-hounds. The hounds found the boar and steered it at the hunters as well as slowed it down. It was a rather complicated manoeuvre, so barking of dogs and sounding of horns were essential for coordinating everything.

The hunters would attack either from horseback or on foot as circumstances required. With boar-spears. Blades were weapons of last resort only. How were Robert and Co. even supposed to find a boar without hounds? It just looked very silly.

Robb is a badass in battle though.

He was good, but he was no young Jaime or Loras Tyrell. And he wassurrounded by guards when in battle, too, not to mention always hadGray Wind by his side.

Re: the wildlings, their major disadvantage is lack of good weapons andarmor - few of them have steel. However, Osha's group consisted ofexperienced raiders and Robb wore no armor. I really disliked how Robbshrugged off Osha's hit in the show - she is supposed to be a competentfighter, after all, and it will be difficult to believe in her abilities now.

Re: the wildlings being starved - they normally feed themselves by hunting and they were in the freaking woods! In Summer. Where Theon had just quickly shot some fowl. It would be completely implausible for them to starve.

[Cereal Forel]

Isn't that more because she's had carnal relations with him, though?

Not really. While disgusting, that act wasn't treasonous. Him poisoning Robert at Cersei's behest definitely was. When it comes to sex, Cersei doesn't seem to care who she sleeps with or what the consequences for that might be, but she definitely understood what would happen if Lancel decided to bare his other sins in front of the High Septon.

[legba11]

Plus everything we know about the typical wildling suggests that someone with a bit of combat training could tear them to shreds easily.

The bigger question is WTF were they doing that far from the Wall?

Exactly what they said they were doing. Going as far south as south goes.

The same things all the wildings are doing at this point. Getting the flock away from the Others.

[Regina]

Well, a look at the HBO store makes the importance of the hunting scene clear, lol:

http://store.hbo.com/game-of-thrones-i-made-the-eight-t-shirt/detail.php?p=300711&v=hbo_shows_game-of-thrones

[Landless Knight]

Just to clear up the point about Viserys's 'crown' melting too quickly: the melting point of gold is 1064C, a temperature which cannot be achieved over an open fire. A forge would be required.

So it's not so much that the gold melted too quickly - it could never have melted at all!

[legba11]

Just to clear up the point about Viserys's 'crown' melting too quickly: the melting point of gold is 1064C, a temperature which cannot be achieved over an open fire. A forge would be required.

So it's not so much that the gold melted too quickly - it could never have melted at all!

Yes, but Vas Dothrak is 5000 miles above sea level. You didn't know?

[Thorgouge]

Just to clear up the point about Viserys's 'crown' melting too quickly: the melting point of gold is 1064C, a temperature which cannot be achieved over an open fire. A forge would be required.

So it's not so much that the gold melted too quickly - it could never have melted at all!

It was chocolate gold coins he melted, okay? Does that clear everything up?

[TrueMetis]

Just to clear up the point about Viserys's 'crown' melting too quickly: the melting point of gold is 1064C, a temperature which cannot be achieved over an open fire. A forge would be required.

So it's not so much that the gold melted too quickly - it could never have melted at all!

A candle is almost hot enough to melt gold. There is a reason gold was one of the first metals human worked.

[Cereal Forel]

Just to clear up the point about Viserys's 'crown' melting too quickly: the melting point of gold is 1064C, a temperature which cannot be achieved over an open fire. A forge would be required.

So it's not so much that the gold melted too quickly - it could never have melted at all!

Are we really arguing about this? It's a tv show based on a fantasy series.

[Knight Of The North]

Are we really arguing about this? It's a tv show based on a fantasy series.

By that logic, you could say that Stannis would have won if only the Blackwater Chain hadn't adhered to the laws of physics.

Look, if GRRM had developed a world where every material is new, and every law of nature is different, you can use that argument. He didn't. He called things 'Gold', 'Steel', and pretty much grounded a large part of ASoIaF in realism.

We're -allowed- to argue about the realism of anything, because you can go along and test this stuff right now to prove it. People really value the realistic aspects of the series and to throw that away would ruin it for a fair few people.

[Balefont]

Well, a look at the HBO store makes the importance of the hunting scene clear, lol:

http://store.hbo.com...game-of-thrones

Now that's just so fucking tacky. :thumbsdown:

[Cereal Forel]

By that logic, you could say that Stannis would have won if only the Blackwater Chain hadn't adhered to the laws of physics.

Look, if GRRM had developed a world where every material is new, and every law of nature is different, you can use that argument. He didn't. He called things 'Gold', 'Steel', and pretty much grounded a large part of ASoIaF in realism.

We're -allowed- to argue about the realism of anything, because you can go along and test this stuff right now to prove it. People really value the realistic aspects of the series and to throw that away would ruin it for a fair few people.

Nowhere does it say that gold in Westeros melts at the same temperature that gold in the real world does. In fact, we know it doesn't as Drogo doesn't have his bloodriders hold Viserys for hours while he stirs his belt till it melts.

The point is that it's pointless to argue the realism of a series set in a fantastical world where people are brought back from the dead, where dragons roam, where people don't get burnt by fire, where people inhabit creatures to do their bidding, etc etc.

[Knight Of The North]

Nowhere does it say that gold in Westeros melts at the same temperature that gold in the real world does. In fact, we know it doesn't as Drogo doesn't have his bloodriders hold Viserys for hours while he stirs his belt till it melts.

The point is that it's pointless to argue the realism of a series set in a fantastical world where people are brought back from the dead, where dragons roam, where people don't get burnt by fire, where people inhabit creatures to do their bidding, etc etc.

Gold, Steel and the basic elements on the periodic table exist. They are refered to by their very names. Therefore, unless you're going to argue that they are all completely different elements for which you have a grand total of jack-all evidence, we -can- argue realism.

Y'know, like I said in the last post. We don't have Dragons in this world. But we do have all the elements on the periodic table. I'll make another analogy, and perhaps you'll get the idea; it's like him having a Cow who can breath underwater. Unless he gives some fantastical reason for it, like a magical handwave, we know for a fact that COWS CANNOT BREATH UNDERWATER. Therefore, we'd call them out on that.

Gold melts at 1064C. Fact. You can check that right now.

In the book, it is said that the material poured over Viserys' head is molten gold. Fact.

To go saying that just because it's a fantasy universe means that things we can find direct links to in real life change their very structure is NOT a theme in Epic Fantasy. It'll either say it's not the believed object or give a reason, not try to change the very properties of all these objects.

Therefore, every last person on these forums can argue for realism in ANYTHING that pertains to the Real World. Just because there are Wights, Dragons and Magic does not mean Steel can disintegrate in water, or that horses can fly.

[Greywolf2375]

Now that's just so fucking tacky. :thumbsdown:

Kinda surprised they didn't place the X's so that it outlines a johnson or something.

I fear for what may come of Myrish Swamp.

[Quoth]

May I suggest that by following a fantasy book/TV series one implies that one is capable of suspending one's disbelief to at least some extent? :rolleyes:

[Xray the Enforcer]

[mod] Keep it civil, please. [/mod]

[The Human Abstract]

Just to clear up the point about Viserys's 'crown' melting too quickly: the melting point of gold is 1064C, a temperature which cannot be achieved over an open fire. A forge would be required.

So it's not so much that the gold melted too quickly - it could never have melted at all!

Not according to the last thread we had about this here. This thread concluded that a pot on a campfire could melt gold.

How Did Drogo Melt Gold?

[Cereal Forel]

Gold, Steel and the basic elements on the periodic table exist. They are refered to by their very names. Therefore, unless you're going to argue that they are all completely different elements for which you have a grand total of jack-all evidence, we -can- argue realism.

Y'know, like I said in the last post. We don't have Dragons in this world. But we do have all the elements on the periodic table. I'll make another analogy, and perhaps you'll get the idea; it's like him having a Cow who can breath underwater. Unless he gives some fantastical reason for it, like a magical handwave, we know for a fact that COWS CANNOT BREATH UNDERWATER. Therefore, we'd call them out on that.

Gold melts at 1064C. Fact. You can check that right now.

In the book, it is said that the material poured over Viserys' head is molten gold. Fact.

To go saying that just because it's a fantasy universe means that things we can find direct links to in real life change their very structure is NOT a theme in Epic Fantasy. It'll either say it's not the believed object or give a reason, not try to change the very properties of all these objects.

Therefore, every last person on these forums can argue for realism in ANYTHING that pertains to the Real World. Just because there are Wights, Dragons and Magic does not mean Steel can disintegrate in water, or that horses can fly.

You're arguing the realism of something set in a world that isn't real. Your argument is moot.

I actually have plenty of evidence though, you've already provided it. If gold melts at 1,064C and cook fires never get that hot, or if they do they could never melt it that quickly, then gold in Westeros can't possibly have the same elemental qualities as gold in the real world because it happens in both the books and the tv show. And that's OK because Westeros isn't real.