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Triskele

White-Luck Warrior IV

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1st Announcer (Eric Idle) : And now it's time for 'Novel Writing' which today comes from a coffee shop in Canada.

2nd Announcer (Michael Palin): (we hear the sound of a crowd in the background) Hello and welcome to London, Ontario where a very good crowd has turned out to watch local boy R. Scott Bakker write his new novel 'The Unholy Consult' on this very pleasant June morning. This will be his ninth novel and the sixth of the very popular Second Apocalypse series. And here he comes! Here comes Bakker walking out toward his table, he looks confident, he looks relaxed very much the man in form as he acknowledges this very good natured Bank Holiday crowd. And the crowd goes quiet now as Bakker settles himself down at the table, body straight shoulders relaxed, laptop in front of him, he opens his word processor (the announcer becomes excitied) and he's off, its the first word, but it is not in the word processor, but in his web browser... oh no it's his own name. He's just googling himself. Oh dear what a disappointing start, but he is off again and here he goes the first word of R. Scott Bakker's new novel, at 10:35 on this very lovely morning, it's four letters it's and adverb and it's 'EVER'. Dennis?

Dennis (Graham Chapman) : Well this is true to form, no surprises there. He started five of his nine novels to date with some general pronouncement about the Human condition. He will probably continue with ARE and MEN and an adjective. We've had two 'CONFUSED', one 'MISTAKEN', one 'WONT', and one 'CLEANING'. That, of course, was never published.

2nd Announcer : I am sorry to interupt you there Dennis, but he's hitting backspace. R. Scott Bakker here on the first day of his new novel has deleted the only word he has written so far. And now he is surfing Westeros. Ohh! Oh dear he's googling himself again.

Dennis: It looks like he'll be updating his blog any minute now.

2nd Announcer : But he's... No.. he's down again and writing, Dennis, he's written THE, he's deleted it again and he has written AS and there is a second word coming up straight away, it is EV, as ev, doesn't make sense as Eve, maybe this is a Biblical reference, no it is EVER, as ever, and the crowd are loving it. They're really enjoying this novel and it's DEATH, as ever death, this is a confident beggining and he is straight on to the next word and it is CAME, as ever death came, SW, came swi, SWIRLING, there's a missing comma before death, but he's not going back it looks as though he is going for the sentence and it is the second adverb coming up, the second adverb of the novel and it is DOWN,.... the crowd are going wild. As ever, death came swirling down, and he is writing fluently, easily with flowing strokes of his fingers as he comes up to the start his second sentence and with this tenth novel well underway and the prospect of a good days writing ahead, back to the studio.

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goodness, HE.

why begrudge the quick? is it merely because you are rooted across blooded ground?

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Wow. I have literally overwhelmed my brain with Bakker today. Blog, the many written interviews, and the few video and audio interviews. Mind blown.

And I'm a shameless bump.

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Just finished it.

About Yatwer targeting Kellhus, I think he did something while visiting the Outside to piss her off. Maybe the two demons he decapitated were her underlings if the gods/demons have some sort of power structure.

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Wow. I have literally overwhelmed my brain with Bakker today. Blog, the many written interviews, and the few video and audio interviews. Mind blown.

And I'm a shameless bump.

Madness - where are all these interviews, and is there stuff about Earwa in them? Or perhaps Disciple of the Dog - never read it but wary of his non-Earwa books after reading some of Neuropath and getting bogged down by its prose.

thanks!

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Disciple is hands down more accessible then Neuropath. Downright funny even as I laughed out loud, a lot, all three times I've read it since September. I mean, I love Neuropath and both it and Disciple have special places in my heart but they are different books.

UBB(Usage Based Billing) in Canada and around the world scares the shit out of me so I've been furiously culminating my information consolidation from the past number of years, downloading and archiving as much data as I can.

I'll post a list of links when I can tomorrow, sciborg, mad tired tonight. I've got, I think, 17 interviews, a couple articles, a lecture, and all his blogs. Though I know for sure from my years of following Bakker that I am missing a couple interviews, specifically ones with Pat from Fantasy Hotlist, which will be pretty easy to scour later, and two more articles that Bakker's written.

And, yes, there is definitely stuff in the interviews about Earwa.

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sciborg, try this:

(that's a two-part interview)

There's a couple of panels/readings on youtube as well. I have to say, he generally comes over less of a... erm... knobhead... on these than he does elsewhere. Maybe toning it down for the cameras :)

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I re-read parts of TTT last night, in particular Esmi’s possession.

(We talked about the mechanics of Aurang’s earlier visit to Esmenet last week or so.)

There’s a page or so when Aurang visits her before he takes control of her body. As before, he’s made himself look like a handsome man. This time, Esmenet is aware that his form is just an illusion. And she sees his shadow, which has wings.

I think the wings are described as “horned”. This sounds like the wings of Aurangs monstrous form.

The monstrous form is the one we’ve had described at least twice now: in the final chapter of Warrior-Prophet, and more recently in White-Luck, where Aurang pulls Nay-Cayûti (sp?) from his sarcophagus. It seems plausible to me that this is the Inchoroi default appearance, or at least has been for millennia.

I can’t get this to click: where is Aurang’s monstrous form? Kellhus tells Possessed!Esmi that the Mangaëcca are squatting around Aurang’s true form in Golgotterath. His mind is bound to the cute Synthese flying around in the Three Seas. So how come his illusion casts the shadow of his true form?

Explanation 1: If we could see past the illusion, we’d see the Synthese seducing Esmi both times. In their first encounter, the Synthese couples with her, but for anatomical reasons he does not penetrate her, spilling his seed on her belly. The Synthese’s seed is black. The illusion is good enough for Esmi to think she’s being touched (and hit, and thrown around like a rag doll) by a fully grown man. However, the illusion’s shadow is the one that would be cast by MonstrousAurang. It‘s a glitch in his illusion, he should have plugged in another parameter to get the other fake shadow.

Explanation 2: Aurang’s monstrous form visits Esmi both times. That makes it easier to account for the physical violence he inflicts on her. He is limber enough to fly out of Esmi’s window, 3 meters talls and with huge wings. (The window, after all, big enough for Esmi to sit in.) The entire population of Sumna is either subject to yet another illusion, or they are all busy looking down, or the sight of a huge winged monster is something they see every day. Aurang’s true form is yet another body back at Golgotterath.

Explanation 3: The shadow of wings seen by Esmi are indeed just bird wings, which look horned for some reason. This would not be the first Epic Fantasy book where the author completely derails his readers by being ambiguous about the description of wing-like shadows of bad guys. Another homage.

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I re-read parts of TTT last night, in particular Esmi’s possession.

(We talked about the mechanics of Aurang’s earlier visit to Esmenet last week or so.)

There’s a page or so when Aurang visits her before he takes control of her body. As before, he’s made himself look like a handsome man. This time, Esmenet is aware that his form is just an illusion. And she sees his shadow, which has wings.

Indeed i said the same yesterday on the last page, from Esme POV at least it is an illusion, also in TWP she tells Kel about the meeting. The scene is the "but i lied to Akka" one. So at some point Kel would have investigated this incident, in fact if i remember correctly somewhere in TTT Kel thinks that Akka had told him from this distance the only sorcery they would be able to use is glamours and the like. A greeat shout that's only a whimper at distance (Bakker of course put it much better than that, i'm having to go off my memory)

So for me it seems that it was a glamour both times, nothing was shown "on-screen" that i can recall, but it seems that since Kel knows about the incident and thinks about what power the Consult can wield at distance,Glamour being one of the few things they can do, then this has obviously been discussed at some point.

On another note, I don't know how to deconstruct books into themes or that, but , after reading these threads and then going back and re-reading the Moe, Kel re-union it does conjure a nice image.

So Moe isn't strong in the water, yet when i now re-read at least the start of that scene it's all about water flowing everywhere, I wish i had the book handy so i could directly quote, but my impression is the description is of powerful water in great quantities, i find it a nice juxtaposition to Moe who is apparently "without" water.

The other thing is Kelhus inadvertently hits a skull when walking and talking with Moe, is he stumbling? I'm obviously now viewing these scenes through the lens of Moe maybe not being dead or at least the whole encounter being conditioned.

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I re-read parts of TTT last night, in particular Esmi’s possession.

...

Explanation 3: The shadow of wings seen by Esmi are indeed just bird wings, which look horned for some reason. This would not be the first Epic Fantasy book where the author completely derails his readers by being ambiguous about the description of wing-like shadows of bad guys. Another homage.

Touche. Professor Tolkien is turning in his grave...

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I think the synthese only needs to touch. It enters her room on the shoulder of the thing called Sarcellus, whom she sees first. It posseses the skinspy completely. We have seen the effect that an old father can have on skin spies just through touch - they have complete control of their neural systems. The skin spy acts an extension of Aurang whilst the synthese questions her (remaining the focal point of Aurang's soul projection).

Aurang does something else to Esme as well. From his encounter with Inrau we know that the Aurang/synthese can weild the agonies, so some 'visceral erotic' version of the gnostic and/or anagogic compulsion cants would be possible (recall how compulsion is indistinguishable from your own thoughts). I suspect that a neural or soul tagging technique (black seed?) was performed to enable her later possession, evidenced by the skin spy's delivery of her to Akka as placing a sleeper agent.

Esme glimpses Aurang's true form because of the sorceries being performed, I suspect she had some limited ability to percieve the Onta (perhaps she is even of the few) or the depth of Aurang's mark (and/or the age-mass thing that comes up a few times) is such that even muggles can sometimes grok it.

Afterwards, the synthese leaves via the window (sound of wings) whilst not-Sarcellus leaves via the door.

I regard the presence of a skin spy as well as Aurang as likely in any case, if only for security.

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I think the synthese only needs to touch. It enters her room on the shoulder of the thing called Sarcellus, whom she sees first. It posseses the skinspy completely. We have seen the effect that an old father can have on skin spies just through touch - they have complete control of their neural systems. The skin spy acts an extension of Aurang whilst the synthese questions her (remaining the focal point of Aurang's soul projection)...

Esme glimpses Aurang's true form because of the sorceries being performed, I suspect she had some limited ability to percieve the Onta (perhaps she is even of the few) or the depth of Aurang's mark (and/or the age-mass thing that comes up a few times) is such that even muggles can sometimes grok it.

I think this makes the most sense, that the skin spy is possessed by Aurang. I recall Cnauir also seeing the shadow of the monstrous wings when he tries to get Aurang to understand the danger of the Dunyain in TTT.

(Also, thanks to Yellow for the YouTube link and Madness, if it is no too much trouble, sharing any links would be awesome. thanks!)

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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303657404576357622592697038.html

Is Bakker a young adult novelist?

Grim though these novels are, they seem positively tame in comparison with what's on shelves now. In Andrew Smith's 2010 novel, "The Marbury Lens," for example, young Jack is drugged, abducted and nearly raped by a male captor. After escaping, he encounters a curious pair of glasses that transport him into an alternate world of almost unimaginable gore and cruelty. Moments after arriving he finds himself facing a wall of horrors, "covered with impaled heads and other dripping, black-rot body parts: hands, hearts, feet, ears, penises. Where the f— was this?" No happy ending to this one, either.

In Jackie Morse Kessler's gruesome but inventive 2011 take on a girl's struggle with self-injury, "Rage," teenage Missy's secret cutting turns nightmarish after she is the victim of a sadistic sexual prank. "She had sliced her arms to ribbons, but the badness remained, staining her insides like cancer. She had gouged her belly until it was a mess of meat and blood, but she still couldn't breathe." Missy survives, but only after a stint as one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

good posts on Esme and possession, I've started a new job last week and I may by much more limited in time I can spend online. :(

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The last 1/3 was just incredible, so much so that I went out and replaced my lost copy of Thousandfold just for the glossary.

Unfortunately, the first 2/3 (or maybe just 1/2) was bogged down by meandering narration, especially within the Mimara point of view's. As great as Bakker is with words, descriptions of landscape make reading the Slog a real slog, which admittedly isn't entirely inappropriate. And to echo a comment in the other WLW thread, some of the chapters read more like a book of proverbs than a novel. So many sentences begin with "People think," "People always," "Nothing [insert verb]...," and it's not even clear whether it's Bakker interjecting or the character thinking those lines since the author doesn't often italicize thoughts.

To paraphrase Benjen Stark, I believe anything that follows "people think," doesn't count.

Which people? Where? When? How many? How old are they? What might be influencing them? etc. etc. etc.

All in all, though, a worthwhile read, with some jawdropping writing and a healthy dose of "wow" moments.

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The last 1/3 was just incredible, so much so that I went out and replaced my lost copy of Thousandfold just for the glossary.

Unfortunately, the first 2/3 (or maybe just 1/2) was bogged down by meandering narration, especially within the Mimara point of view's. As great as Bakker is with words, descriptions of landscape make reading the Slog a real slog, which admittedly isn't entirely inappropriate. And to echo a comment in the other WLW thread, some of the chapters read more like a book of proverbs than a novel. So many sentences begin with "People think," "People always," "Nothing [insert verb]...," and it's not even clear whether it's Bakker interjecting or the character thinking those lines since the author doesn't often italicize thoughts.

Really - I loved Mimara the most I think, though yes you can tell Bakker is emulating Blood Meridian with his prose that makes you *feel* the slog. Mimara's growing father-daughter relationship with Akka, paralleled against Sorweel's growing infatuation (a relationship existing in one person's mind) might be my favorite parts of the book as I reread their sections...have less interest in retreading Esme and Fayanal's ground.

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I'm really lazy at the moment, can someone check the Golden Room scenes in TWLW to see if there's any indication how much time passes between each horn blast in Golgotterath? I want to know if we could figure how long it takes a person to be used up in the Golden Room, and if by assuming it takes 144,000 souls, it's possible to construct a Rate of No-God completion.

On the subject of the Consult, isn't it possible that they breed humans in the pits of Min Uroikas for their uses?

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