[Book Spoilers] EP107 Discussion

[MusaYo]

I liked the episode, even if I knew what was going to happen, still kept me on the edge of my seat.

I think Ned is an honorable man and just can't act any other way, it's not because he's not a smart man, he can't act against the principles he has lived by all his life, his is a tragic story because of his loyalty to others.

I also liked Tywin's intro and the scene with Jamie, great scene between the two actors, believed them as father and son.

[Ormond]

Well, Dany is extremely anti-rape and anti-slave so it seemed a little odd that he was promising her these things to me! Eh. Maybe she doesn't know she feels that way yet... or something.

I don't think he was necessarily promising these things to Dany. He was promising them to the Dothraki warriors he would be leading in battle across the dreaded salt seas.

[Mike]

Yeah, she was thinking- "Oh, that's my crazy warlord hubby! He doesn't really mean it..." :dunno:

My take on her thought process was that her desire for Drogo to give her the Iron Chair wasn't what she expected, that she never fully understood the warlike nature of her husband, and now she's unleashed him on the people that she would rule.

[iheartseverus]

I don't think he was necessarily promising these things to Dany. He was promising them to the Dothraki warriors he would be leading in battle across the dreaded salt seas.

Yes. And, I think, sort of shouting to the gods (do Dothraki have gods?) or to the universe at large that this is what he would do. I saw it as the Dothraki version of taking a vow, making an oath. It wasn't about Dany.

[Bronn_ManofHonour]

I liked the episode, even if I knew what was going to happen, still kept me on the edge of my seat.

I think Ned is an honorable man and just can't act any other way, it's not because he's not a smart man, he can't act against the principles he has lived by all his life, his is a tragic story because of his loyalty to others.

I also liked Tywin's intro and the scene with Jamie, great scene between the two actors, believed them as father and son.

One of the theme's in the series is that honour gets you nowhere. Men with honour only really find success when they team up with unhonourable people... see Jon with Samwell, Stannis with Davos, and Tyrion with Bronn.

But having no honour bears heavily on some people. Jamie eventually turns on Cersei in part because he cannot handle being held without honour by most men that have it. It was a bit understated in their brief scene together but Barristan despised Jamie for stabbing Aerys in the back.

[snake]

Good episode.

Not much to complain about other than Littlefinger. IMO, this is the worst casting and acting in the series. They really missed the boat with this guy.

[iheartseverus]

But having no honour bears heavily on some people. Jamie eventually turns on Cersei in part because he cannot handle being held without honour by most men that have it. It was a bit understated in their brief scene together but Barristan despised Jamie for stabbing Aerys in the back.

I agree with the general outline here. But in the book, Jaime didn't stab Aerys in the back, he slit his throat. HBO changed it to a stab in the back, I guess to underline the disrespect everyone now has for what Jaime did.

I like your general thesis--having no honor bears heavily on some people.

[Bronn_ManofHonour]

I agree with the general outline here. But in the book, Jaime didn't stab Aerys in the back, he slit his throat. HBO changed it to a stab in the back, I guess to underline the disrespect everyone now has for what Jaime did.

I like your general thesis--having no honor bears heavily on some people.

He spends 20 odd years publicly doing the dirty work for Tywin and Cersei, and after Cersei's gain the Regency (actually being the defacto monarch) and casts him aside (refuses to ransom him), he really has had enough of her.

After his father's speech of legacy being everything, I wonder if Jamie realizes his.... that and the fact there is room for nobody in Cersei's sphere except Cersei. Joffrey and Tommen are a means to and end for her. His forced ignoring of his own children as left him bitterly alone with his brother Tyrion as his only friend.

[Jaxom 1974]

I tend to like all of the added material. For a book veteran it feels like we are getting behind the scenes details. Really looking forward to next week since GRRM wrote it and want to see what new scenes he adds.

The Tywin/Jaime scene is still my favorite part of the episode and again I actually like that Tywin is skinning the buck. It symbolized him gutting House Baratheon and it also shows he's a man who doesn't mind getting his hands dirty. The blood just wipes off. I also loved, "Are you going to say something clever? Go on...say something clever." Jaime is totally cowed by him. Loved it.

Well, I've been pretty much silent thus far on the show as time has constrained me...

That being said, I agree completely on the aspects of the "new" material that has been added. Not a single scene has been wasted, and for me only the Renly/Loras scene was a mistake. Each one has added more to what I already knew, or lent more to what I believed from the book.

The Tywin/Jaime scene was excellent.

The Littlefinger scene (he's one actor I'm still a little leary on) does work, even if it isn't exactly what one would think of when you compare the character to the book.

It was a highly satisfying episode.

[Anomandaris86]

There's one very important comment in that lesbian scene. Littlefinger says he's saving himself for another. Can this be another area where the TV show is spoiling something in the books for us? Originally I thought while reading that Littlefinger might be scheming to make himself Warden of the North and end up marrying Catelyn after all. But then the Red Wedding happened, and he didn't seem all that disturbed by it. In fact, when Sansa tells him to give Harrenhall to Lord Frey in book 4, he simply laughs and says, "Maybe I will." Hardly the attitude of a grieving man. But now with his comment in that scene, it seems that maybe he really did plan on marrying Catelyn. Or was he talking about Sansa? Or someone else entirely?

[MusaYo]

One of the theme's in the series is that honour gets you nowhere. Men with honour only really find success when they team up with unhonourable people... see Jon with Samwell, Stannis with Davos, and Tyrion with Bronn.

But having no honour bears heavily on some people. Jamie eventually turns on Cersei in part because he cannot handle being held without honour by most men that have it. It was a bit understated in their brief scene together but Barristan despised Jamie for stabbing Aerys in the back.

I understand your theory, though I think of Samwell as being honorable also, but having learned to trust few people.

[Bronn_ManofHonour]

There's one very important comment in that lesbian scene. Littlefinger says he's saving himself for another. Can this be another area where the TV show is spoiling something in the books for us? Originally I thought while reading that Littlefinger might be scheming to make himself Warden of the North and end up marrying Catelyn after all. But then the Red Wedding happened, and he didn't seem all that disturbed by it. In fact, when Sansa tells him to give Harrenhall to Lord Frey in book 4, he simply laughs and says, "Maybe I will." Hardly the attitude of a grieving man. But now with his comment in that scene, it seems that maybe he really did plan on marrying Catelyn. Or was he talking about Sansa? Or someone else entirely?

Baelish has as much designs on the Iron Throne as anyone else. Heck this was even illustrated a couple of episodes with him standing and staring at the empty throne. He doesn't have much money.... and NO army.... but he does have incredible sway over weak willed women. He is marrying (and murdering) his way to many lands and titles. Obviously Sansa and the North is next for him. I imagine after that it could be Asha Greyjoy.

I think in the end Arya runs him through... at least I hope so!

[OneTrueWarg]

I think they are giving to much away to easy like jorah's love for dany and, I don't remember that scene with the little boy talking about the spider with him either was that in the book?

[RAddichio]

Just voted on ep 7 - gave it a 9. Excellent acting spearheaded by the actor playing Lord Baelish. His line delivery is precisely as written - sinister beyond belief. Petyr glides along in that perfect costume as though he's an evil spirit - feet barely touching the ground.

The on-the-job-whore training scene was gratuitous but probably added with men in particular in mind. Said as much to my hubby and he gave a devlish chuckle which confirmed the motivation. He did not disapprove :rofl: You guys never saw a girl on girl scene you didn't like - right? So, HBO wanted to make sure you were happy in that way as well.

With the exception of that particular scene, I thought tonight's ep was outstanding. Lovely landscape at the heart tree ceremony and great comraderie between Jon, Sam and their black watch brothers.

Almost don't want next week's episode to arrive too quickly, because I fear it will bring a strong shock for non-readers and cause readers to revisit those dark moments at the end of Book 1. Only consolation is knowing that S2 is already in planning stages. :thumbsup:

[kairparavel]

There's one very important comment in that lesbian scene. Littlefinger says he's saving himself for another. Can this be another area where the TV show is spoiling something in the books for us? Originally I thought while reading that Littlefinger might be scheming to make himself Warden of the North and end up marrying Catelyn after all. But then the Red Wedding happened, and he didn't seem all that disturbed by it. In fact, when Sansa tells him to give Harrenhall to Lord Frey in book 4, he simply laughs and says, "Maybe I will." Hardly the attitude of a grieving man. But now with his comment in that scene, it seems that maybe he really did plan on marrying Catelyn. Or was he talking about Sansa? Or someone else entirely?

I took him to mean two different people in that instance. Saving himself for Lysa (remember he said she wasn't particularly attractive but came from good lineage) and went on to discuss being in love with Catelyn. Which is a conclusion I can come to only because I've read the books. So maybe I'm overcomplicating it. But the mentioning of that someone being not particularly attractive is important, I suspect.

Catelyn/Sansa - pretty

Lysa - not so much

[MusaYo]

Just voted on ep 7 - gave it a 9. Excellent acting spearheaded by the actor playing Lord Baelish. His line delivery is precisely as written - sinister beyond belief. Petyr glides along in that perfect costume as though he's an evil spirit - feet barely touching the ground.

The on-the-job-whore training scene was gratuitous but probably added with men in particular in mind. Said as much to my hubby and he gave a devlish chuckle which confirmed the motivation. He did not disapprove :rofl: You guys never saw a girl on girl scene you didn't like - right? So, HBO wanted to make sure you were happy in that way as well.

With the exception of that particular scene, I thought tonight's ep was outstanding. Lovely landscape at the heart tree ceremony and great comraderie between Jon, Sam and their black watch brothers.

Almost don't want next week's episode to arrive too quickly, because I fear it will bring a strong shock for non-readers and cause readers to revisit those dark moments at the end of Book 1. Only consolation is knowing that S2 is already in planning stages. :thumbsup:

I loved the heart tree ceremony and Jon and Sam. Agree that the end will come as a shock to non-readers, and even if I know what will happen, I'm not looking forward to seeing it.

[Starkess]

Phew, had to read all 19 pages of the other thread...

Anyway, loved this episode!!

The only thing I disliked what the LF-porno scene. Illogical, awkward, unnecessary, yeah it sucked. But I doubt any of us are going to change our minds about that, so I'll save it for the sexuality thread if I really want to hash that out.

It's so sad to see this happening to Ned. I KNOW what's coming but I still can't help but hope that, somehow, this time it will be different.

Loved Drogo's speech! Man that was so great. And damn, I am so glad that man never wears a shirt. :drool:

I just want to watch the last 3 episodes nowwwwwwwwwwwww!

(Nitpickiest of nitpicks: Why is Sam wearing BROWN?!! For some reason that drove me nuts.)

[Wolfheart]

Anyone else bothered that Jaimes hair was brown in the Tywin/Jaime scene?

[Starkess]

Anyone else bothered that Jaimes hair was brown in the Tywin/Jaime scene?

I noticed that it seemed a lot darker than before! I thought I was just imagining it, though.

[Faint]

I'm surprised not more has been made about the changes to the scene between Cersei and Ned. Quite obviously they've decided to change Cersei's character a lot but it's getting to the point where it's getting too excessive for my taste.