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Ran

How Would You Rate Episode 107?

  

255 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      1
    • 2
      1
    • 3
      1
    • 4
      7
    • 5
      7
    • 6
      13
    • 7
      37
    • 8
      61
    • 9
      72
    • 10
      55


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I missed that i think. But that doesn't make it better. There's just no reason for it. The fact that he's mute is not a throwaway detail, and making him bark and growl serves no useful purpose and detracts meaningfully from the story. It's just a really bizarre decision.

It depends on how you see it. Ghost being mute has no significance to the plot, it's just a descriptive thing and you'd have to explain it will look odd with a wolf rearing his teeth but not making any sound. When I think about it Ghost makes noises as a pup when they find him as well so that part was removed early.

All in all it's one of the details that I feel would be nice to have in the show (if it was possible we'd of course want everything to be in there) but I'm not too bothered by it being left out, seeing how a lot of things will be lost in the transition.

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It depends on how you see it. Ghost being mute has no significance to the plot, it's just a descriptive thing

We'll just have to agree to disagree here.

Following that same logic, couldn't you say that tyrion being a little person is just a descriptive thing, and has no significance to the plot?

It's a fundamental trait of the character. The kind of thing that adds depth. It's a big part of the reason he's even named ghost!

what purpose does making him bark serve to advance the plot? none.

it's just something that I think is really strange.

Edited by Swordfish

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I noticed a lot of people disagree about how Tywin comes off in this episode, whether his portrayal here matches up with that of book Tywin. Maybe it's just me, but I never felt like I got a very good impression of Tywin's character from the books. Almost all of what we know about him we hear from other characters, and he is talked about a lot throughout the series. But we don't get very many scenes with him actually present, and it's hard to say what exactly is going on in his head sometimes.

I'm not familiar with anything else Charles Dance has done, but I liked the way he played Tywin in ep 7. It was a good introduction to this ruthless patriarch and his relationship with his sons. And he's got the icy stare down.

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We'll just have to agree to disagree here.

Following that same logic, couldn't you say that tyrion being a little person is just a descriptive thing, and has no significance to the plot?

It's a fundamental trait of the character. The kind of thing that adds depth. It's a big part of the reason he's even named ghost!

what purpose does making him bark serve to advance the plot? none.

it's just something that I think is really strange.

Tyrion being a dwarf has a ton of impact on the character. That's the main reason he's become the man that he is, because he's a dwarf before he's a human in everyone's eyes. Had he been a full grown man and still as clever Tywin would probably have been pleased that Jaime couldn't inherit Casterly Rock because Tyrion would be the new Tywin (and with that background he most likely wouldn't have developed his compassion). So in short Tyrion would be a completely different person.

Ghost on the other hand is mainly Jon's property and serves to enhance him, rather than being an important character in himself. Ghosts are generally white (and not always silent) so there's hardly any problems with the name. Ghost can still be scary, be fiercely loyal to Jon and be an outsider of his litter while being able to make sounds, and that pretty much sums him up.

And the point isn't that him making sounds advances the plot, it's that they don't have to go in and edit the sound of the scenes he's in. They probably felt that the trait wasn't important enough to put aside editing time for that instead of something else (me guessing).

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Tyrion being a dwarf has a ton of impact on the character. That's the main reason he's become the man that he is, because he's a dwarf before he's a human in everyone's eyes. Had he been a full grown man and still as clever Tywin would probably have been pleased that Jaime couldn't inherit Casterly Rock because Tyrion would be the new Tywin (and with that background he most likely wouldn't have developed his compassion). So in short Tyrion would be a completely different person

Huh? It's a work of fiction. He would've been whatever person george wanted him to be, and that includes a taller version of himself.

And the point isn't that him making sounds advances the plot, it's that they don't have to go in and edit the sound of the scenes he's in. They probably felt that the trait wasn't important enough to put aside editing time for that instead of something else (me guessing).

I don't want to get into a big back and forth over this, but that makes zero sense. These are trained animals, then bark and growl when you tell them to bark and growl.

hell, the bark in the scene coming out from under the wall was clearly edited IN.

So this theory that it's just easier because of editing reasons simply holds no water.

Either way, like i said, I'm content to simply agree to disagree.

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Huh? It's a work of fiction. He would've been whatever person george wanted him to be, and that includes a taller version of himself.

You'd have to have very low opinions of a writer to think that he would have a character being looked down upon by pretty much everyone without giving any reason for why, because that's just terrible writing. There's a very clear causality between Tyrion being born a dwarf and how he is as a person. It's at the core of him and George is a good enough writer to have written everything about Tyrion as a logical step from that core. If you remove that you don't have any reason for why he is who he is.

In order to keep him what he is you'd need something else to explain it, and changing isn't the same as removing and therefor has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I don't want to get into a big back and forth over this, but that makes zero sense. These are trained animals, then bark and growl when you tell them to bark and growl.

hell, the bark in the scene coming out from under the wall was clearly edited IN.

So this theory that it's just easier because of editing reasons simply holds no water.

Either way, like i said, I'm content to simply agree to disagree.

We can certainly agree to disagree. I think you chose the less interesting part of what I wrote about Ghost to comment on though since my part about his "character" had more meat on it, seeing how I didn't have to take a random guess.

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[quote name='mimi' timestamp='1306929723' post

The king's death and the vows and ending would've packed a lot more emotion if there was even a little appropriate music! I'm so surprised at how little music there is in each episode. Those scenes could be SO dramatic, yet they were so quiet that it didn't quite make it....to me. Love the opening theme and wish they would apply it

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Tyrion being a dwarf has a ton of impact on the character. That's the main reason he's become the man that he is, because he's a dwarf before he's a human in everyone's eyes.

:agree: , it has a ton of impact on the character and in his relationships with others. He identifies with Jon the bastard and Bran the cripple.

I love his conversation with Jon early in the book("Let me give you some advice, bastard. Never forgot what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armour. And it can never be used to hurt you.")

When Jon saw Jaime, he thought he looked like a King and felt bad for Tyrion. Then after the conversation with Tyrion, saw him as the King:

Loved this part of the book:

"Remember this boy, all dwarfs may be bastards , yet not all bastards need be dwarfs." And with that he turned and sauntered back into the feast, whistling a tune. When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a King."

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Episode poll ratings (minimum 100 votes, top and bottom 5% thrown out):

Epi | Title                                   | Rating | 6.........7.........8.........9.........10
----|-----------------------------------------|--------|-------------------------------------------
101 | "Winter Is Coming"                      | 7.9    | ********************
102 | "The Kingsroad"                         | 8.2    | ***********************
103 | "Lord Snow"                             | 7.9    | ********************
104 | "Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things" | 8.2    | ***********************
105 | "The Wolf and the Lion"                 | 8.8    | *****************************
106 | "A Golden Crown"                        | 8.8    | *****************************
107 | "You Win or You Die"                    | 8.2    | ***********************

Overall series average - 8.3

I'm a little surprised, actually, because this episode was very good for the most part. But I think the Littlefinger scene really hurt episode 7, it gets an almost universal strong negative reaction (from reviewers on the forums, bloggers, and print, it doesn't matter). I personally ranked it down a point just for that, it really was that bad and that distracting. If I had recommended to a friend or family member they watch the show and they saw this episode, frankly I would be embarrassed, and they probably would have stopped watching right there. Hopefully HBO learns a lesson from this. This show is good enough to stand on the strength of the story and the acting, it doesn't need gimmicks.

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[quote name='Ealdorman Halasahr' timestamp='1306752213' post='2496732'

And why is Lord Tywin butchering an animal in his pavilion?

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I would have given this a 9, but HBO has to be HBO and give us a pointless sex scene during LF's monologue. Dear HBO - people can spank it to much better scenes than what you can up with. Otherwise, thought it was great.

7/10

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8/10. Only thing holding this ep back from being one of the best was that ludicrous scene with Littlefinger and the whores. Wtf? Oh well.

The scenes at the wall continue to steal the series for me. They've gotten just about everything spot on there.

The scenes at KL were good and dramatic. And of course, great ending to this ep!

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Oh first ep without Tyrion? I know he's not in theses scenes but I missed him all the same.

Agree with most here - the scene with Tywin and Jaime was well done.

Edited by arrowfan

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I personally ranked it down a point just for that, it really was that bad and that distracting. If I had recommended to a friend or family member they watch the show and they saw this episode, frankly I would be embarrassed, and they probably would have stopped watching right there.

lol. I genuinely laughed out loud when I read that. Personally I quite liked the scene and thought it was a good way to demonstrate Littlefinger's true character.

But yeah, I get your point of recommending the series to friends or family and then they get greeted with a 5 minute lesbian sex scene. I watched it at home with my wife so no problemo. It mortifies me though to think what would have happened if I were visiting my parents at the time. I would have said, "Hey there's a great series I'm into on t.v.... mind if we watch it?" My parents would say sure and ask if it's good etc.... I'd be like "yeah it's awesome. It's based on the best book series I've ever read and the show is my fave series on t.v at the moment." My parents would enthusiastically agree and change the channel to HBO. Uh oh.... two naked woman having loud sex for five minutes.... I would be beyond embarrassed.

Even writing that theoretical scenario makes me cringe in embarrassment. Thank heaven I wasn't visiting my parents that night lol

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Episode poll ratings (minimum 100 votes, top and bottom 5% thrown out):

Epi | Title                                   | Rating | 6.........7.........8.........9.........10
----|-----------------------------------------|--------|-------------------------------------------
101 | "Winter Is Coming"                      | 7.9    | ********************
102 | "The Kingsroad"                         | 8.2    | ***********************
103 | "Lord Snow"                             | 7.9    | ********************
104 | "Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things" | 8.2    | ***********************
105 | "The Wolf and the Lion"                 | 8.8    | *****************************
106 | "A Golden Crown"                        | 8.8    | *****************************
107 | "You Win or You Die"                    | 8.2    | ***********************

Overall series average - 8.3

I'm a little surprised, actually, because this episode was very good for the most part. But I think the Littlefinger scene really hurt episode 7, it gets an almost universal strong negative reaction (from reviewers on the forums, bloggers, and print, it doesn't matter). I personally ranked it down a point just for that, it really was that bad and that distracting. If I had recommended to a friend or family member they watch the show and they saw this episode, frankly I would be embarrassed, and they probably would have stopped watching right there. Hopefully HBO learns a lesson from this. This show is good enough to stand on the strength of the story and the acting, it doesn't need gimmicks.

A funny thing about that scene was that I talked with two non-reader viewers yesterday (separate occasion) and when we talked about the latest episode both mentioned the LF scene as the first thing when they mentioned things they liked. None of them had really even cared that there was sex in the scene, they felt all focus lied with LF. Funny how different opinions can be as much we've read here has been quite the opposite.

Personally I don't see sex scenes with plot or character exposition as gimmicky anymore, an opinion I've had since I first saw Rome. Sex is natural, more so than violence. I find it more noticeable and jarring to my immersion when a show hides it in the stereotypical ways (bed cover covers the girl after sex, she somehow keeps her underwear on, furniture is conveniently in the line of sight etc) as being afraid of exposed sex and nudity is very apparent as there's a big double standard about that going around. I can still get embarrassed in some cases (like when watching sex scenes with my mother) but I'm working on it since getting embarrassed for that makes me feel silly.

Edited by Tywin's bastard

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Music?!

Are you guys kidding me?

This is why I watch HBO. Watch 'The Wire'. The only music is the music that is in the environment.

Granted, GoT has a little more, but not a lot. That's a GOOD THING. Music rarely adds to a scene. If a producer needs music to hammer into his viewers' heads that 'LISTEN THIS SCENE IS TOTALLY DRAMATIC' he has failed.

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Not just any animal...a stag. I loved this scene. Jaime did a great job at being "unnerved", and Tywin at being "unnerving." A+!

Yeah, I know about the symbolical (Baratheon)stag - now. (I think I've already commented on that, though. Earlier, that is - but you're completely correct, none the less.)

And yes, I think Mr. Dance is an excellent Tywin thus far. Let's see if he's performance is a good in later episodes (and why not?).

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Music?!

Are you guys kidding me?

This is why I watch HBO. Watch 'The Wire'. The only music is the music that is in the environment.

Granted, GoT has a little more, but not a lot. That's a GOOD THING. Music rarely adds to a scene. If a producer needs music to hammer into his viewers' heads that 'LISTEN THIS SCENE IS TOTALLY DRAMATIC' he has failed.

Don't want to duel over this here, but...

Film is an art form that has used music since it's inception. Most great directors both use it and defend it, despite the fact that the music comes from nowhere.

Guess they all failed.

GoT could have been filmed without music and I could live with that just fine. But since it is scored, I just wish it had been done better.

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Personally I don't see sex scenes with plot or character exposition as gimmicky anymore, an opinion I've had since I first saw Rome. Sex is natural, more so than violence. I find it more noticeable and jarring to my immersion when a show hides it in the stereotypical ways (bed cover covers the girl after sex, she somehow keeps her underwear on, furniture is conveniently in the line of sight etc) as being afraid of exposed sex and nudity is very apparent as there's a big double standard about that going around. I can still get embarrassed in some cases (like when watching sex scenes with my mother) but I'm working on it since getting embarrassed for that makes me feel silly.

In general I agree with this sentiment, I just thought this particular scene went way over the line and became distracting. Some of the Dany-Drogo, Cersei-Jaime, or Theon-Ros sex scenes didn't bother me, there was a reason for them. The scene with Viserys and Doreah in the tub didn't bother me at all. Technically, they didn't have to be naked or engaged in sex to have that conversation, but it seemed natural.

I did like what Littlefinger was saying in the scene, it is good character information for him, it was just hard to concentrate and absorb that with "play with her ass" sprinkled into the dialogue. I also don't like how Littlefinger is pretty much being portrayed as a straight up pimp in the tv series. From the books I got the idea he has his hands into lots of things and one small part of that had to do with owning some whorehouses. And he does it not just for the revenue, but because of the information he can gain through that (what he really makes his living on). But in the tv series it seems like that's all he does except sit in on the occasional small council meeting.

Anyway, it's not a big deal, doesn't ruin the series for me, I just think they are getting caught in the trap of having to show obligatory sex scenes whether they make sense or not. Which makes it feel cheapened, like Starz instead of HBO.

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Voted an 8 though I'd have preferred to give it a 7.5. I hated the LF sexposition scene. I thought the writing was clumsy and clumsily delivered by Gillen (you'd think he'd be much better at monologuing after The Wire). Porn star-ishness of the whores is really distracting; I can't imagine whores actually looking/acting like that in Westeros. And while the Khal's speech was fine, I'm annoyed that every Essos scene looks like it was cast and filmed at Burning Man. Vaes Dothrak and Dothraki culture looks smooth and cartoonish when it should be rough-hewn and raw.

That said, I thought the opening Tywin scene was wonderful, and the economy of plotting continues to impress me.

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