The R+L=J thread, part XII

[LadyMary]

If Wylla isn't from Dorne, which I think is the case, this is a very, very good question. I think the answer is that the Daynes take her into their household to provide her with a secure remote place to help maintain the story that she is Jon's mother. Why would they do that, and where does Wylla come from? Because, I'd bet, the Daynes are Targaryen loyalists who see protecting a Targaryen heir as their sworn duty. The answer to the second part is wound up with, I think, how she gets involved with being Jon's wet-nurse (not to be confused with the wet-nurse Catelyn mets on arriving in Winterfell.) I think she is a loyal Targaryen servant, in the mold of Old Nan or Mikken, who Rhaegar gets to come to the Tower when he finds out Lyanna is pregnant. The point being she is known to be loyal before she gets there, and as someone known as such she could come from anywhere the Targaryens have sympathizers. Someplace close to Dragonstone would be a good guess, I think, for Wylla's home.

Spoiler

There is a spoiler from a reading Martin did of a Davos chapter that puts her origins in the Three Sisters, I believe. It also supports the idea that Wylla is Jon's mom - which I take to be part of the cover story as the timeline for Jon' birth would be out of whack

But

that passage doesn't say the woman's name, just that "people say" that Ned left the fisherman's daughter with a bag of silver and a baby in her belly... What makes you certain that the fisherman's daughter from the Vale was Wylla and would end up a servant of the Daynes all the way down in Dorne? When would Ned have gone to collect Jon and his mother between fighting the war, finding his sister, returning the sword Dawn and making the long trip home to Winterfell?

Am I misunderstanding what you meant? Ned was gone almost a year from when he left Catelyn. Jon is younger than Robb, not older (supposedly). Jon would have to be older than he is and older than Robb if that were the sequence of events. Plus, GRRM said that the producers figured out who Jon's parents were. How would they know if it was a character that never been mentioned before?

Some people said Ashara Dayne was Jon's mother.

Some people said Wylla the wet-nurse was Jon's mother.

Some people said

fisherman's daughter from the Vale

was Jon's mother.

If it's the latter, even if the timeline worked, why the big secret?

[antibodies]

When Robert Baratheon put the crown on his head, Viserys was still alive, and Daenerys. At that time he was by no means the legitimate heir to the throne.

If in the end biological legitimacy is at the heart of the matter for GRRM to crown someone, I would consider my emotional and intellectual investment in ASoIaF to be largely wasted. I think GRRM has shown that the little people could care less whether the king is a bastard or pure blood. If they can't afford bread and fish, so what if the king is the legitimate heir? Would people go to war, fight, bleed, and die for someone just because he is the rightful king by blood? Theoretical legality means little, but wealth, military power, and political savvy are what really matter, in the real history. I think he's made that point clear enough.

I've just finished reading the first 3 books and I am puzzled that the mystery of Jon Snow's parentage seems to be the biggest point of discussion and speculation, centering primarily on whether he is of royal blood. Really? Is it the proportionally biggest, most important secret of all the secrets in ASoIaF?

But I am hopeful that GRRM will surprise fans all the way to the end.

[SFDanny]

But

that passage doesn't say the woman's name, just that "people say" that Ned left the fisherman's daughter with a bag of silver and a baby in her belly... What makes you certain that the fisherman's daughter from the Vale was Wylla and would end up a servant of the Daynes all the way down in Dorne? When would Ned have gone to collect Jon and his mother between fighting the war, finding his sister, returning the sword Dawn and making the long trip home to Winterfell?

Am I misunderstanding what you meant? Ned was gone almost a year from when he left Catelyn. Jon is younger than Robb, not older (supposedly). Jon would have to be older than he is and older than Robb if that were the sequence of events. Plus, GRRM said that the producers figured out who Jon's parents were. How would they know if it was a character that never been mentioned before?

Some people said Ashara Dayne was Jon's mother.

Some people said Wylla the wet-nurse was Jon's mother.

Some people said

fisherman's daughter from the Vale

was Jon's mother.

If it's the latter, even if the timeline worked, why the big secret?

Jon is the one character that I believe we can't be certain knows his own name day. He could be slightly older than Robb and not know it. There are limits, however, and Jon can't be noticeably older than Robb or Catelyn would not believe Ned's story.

My point, however, was that the spoiler story is outside those limits, it seems to me. It doesn't work because we, as readers outside the story, know Jon is "eight to nine months" older than Daenerys. It does work though as part of a cover story to explain how Ned and Wylla meet. Note that the Sisterman lord Davos talks to was a Targaryen loyalist. I think the reason for the cover story coming out of this man's mouth is because this is where Wylla comes from and where anyone going to find out if she is really Jon's mom would look. I don't see this story talking about a new candidate for Jon's mother.

Wylla, and her origins, tell us a lot about events both before and after Ned's Tower of Joy dream sequence. At least I believe so.

[Galen M]

When Robert Baratheon put the crown on his head, Viserys was still alive, and Daenerys. At that time he was by no means the legitimate heir to the throne.

Aerys was the Mad King, and Robert's Rebellion sought to depose him. I guess if you want to get technical about it, they declare him no true king, and thereby attainted his offspring. After Aerys's get, Robert is the heir.

[Dragonfish]

Jon is conceived around the time of the Battle of the Bells - give or take a month. That's likely three to four months Into the Rebellion and well after Lyanna is "kidnapped;"

Was the Battle of the Bells really that early in the Rebellion? I was always under the impression that it occurred not long before the Battle of the Trident. If the Battle of the Bells did indeed occur that early, then did it really take around eight or nine months for Rhaegar to reconstitute the loyalist forces and go fight Robert on the Trident?

I've just finished reading the first 3 books and I am puzzled that the mystery of Jon Snow's parentage seems to be the biggest point of discussion and speculation, centering primarily on whether he is of royal blood. Really? Is it the proportionally biggest, most important secret of all the secrets in ASoIaF?

I think the question of Jon Snow's parentage interests so many simply because it's an important and long-standing mystery, with many tantalizing clues sprinkled throughout the narrative that make for fascinating discussion. I don't think it interests people because of the royal blood angle. All IMO, of course.

[starki]

My question to the R+L = J troops is : what do we gain by Jon being a Targaryen ?

He can't be APTWP/Azor Ahai/Stallion that will mount the world because given what we've seen, Daeny fits the job.

The only other option is he's the Heir of Seven Kingdoms, since he is the son of the oldest child of the king. Again, beating Daeny to the punch*. Not to mention he's at the Wall, having taken the vows of the Watch...and unless R+J got married, he is an illegitimate child. And he doesn't look like a Targaryen to begin with.

If, however, he's a Baratheon and a fully legitimized Stark (certainly Robb and Stannis consider him a Stark enough to offer Winterfell/make him heir in the will), he can be King of the North and rally the folk up there. And the last of the royal line.

*assuming Daenerys will rule the Kingdoms. I think she's APTWP only, and not the future Queen.

[Popgun]

Speaking of which, have you managed to dredge up five quotes which support E+W=J yet?

zmflavius....

Don't wanna break the current flow of conversation is but I'm compiling those quotes. So don't think I ignored you or got distracted. It just takes time to search through like over 4000 pages of text.

I'll find 5 quotes but this is the last time I do this kind of research. I won't be scanning the books again. Do your own research in future.

Typical of snowians however... snowians make wild claims about Jon being Azah Ahai and head of a dragon from prophecy. Oh plus all the other hero dreams of Jon I read in here, totally unchallenged. As long as the person accepts R+L=J bullshit theories get accepted as gospel.

Yet I claim Wylla could be 1 of 3 mothers for Jon with Ned as father and get accused of blue murder and have peeps demanding 5 quotes for just one of the mother possibilities.

Here is a down payment until I find the other

1. “You told me once. Was it Merryl? You know the one I mean, your bastard’s mother?”

“Her name was Wylla,” Ned replied with cool courtesy, “and I would sooner not speak of her.”

“Wylla, yes.” The king grinned.

hmm, well seem's pretty cut and dry to me.

2. "Ned’s mouth tightened in anger. “Nor will I. Leave it be, Robert, for the love you say you bear me. I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men.”

this clearly shows Ned's shame at sleeping with a woman he wasn't wed to. Cut down the line to "I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men.”

If he was lying to Lyanna to save a baby, how would he be dishonouring himself? Robert wasn't talking about a child, he was talking about Ned dipping his whick in Wylla.

3. From Edric Dayne

“Jon Snow’s mother. He never told you? She’s served us for years and years. Since before I was born.”

Note the "years and years". Servants gossip worse than chickens peck for food. If Wylla faked giving birth to Jon Snow, then surely one of the other servants would know?

4. spoiler chapter from aDwD

Davos chapter. Ned got someone preggo and left her with silver and a bastard. It was apparently the captains daughter, so that would rule out Ashara (at first glance). It happened early on in the war which is consistent with Jon's birth. The war lasted about a year so this is probably the strongest evidence of Ned being Jon's father. He dogged someone, was Wylla a daughter of a captain? Maybe so.... since Ned is such a nice guy he got her a job in a good house.

5. It's there I just can't find it yet. I remember a dude in some chapter saying something like "Wylla who is widely rumoured to be the mother."

So yeah.

I don't even believe totally that Wylla is the mother. I do however believe that Ned is the dad. I believe Ned is dad as hard out as you snowians believe R+L=J.

In conclusion....

bring on aDwD so we have some new stuff to argue over for the next 6-7 years.

P.S. gonna update my sig so peeps know I accepted the boot bet.

[starki]

I always thought Wylla was just a story Ned sold to everyone...including Robert.

If he is the father...what's the point ? "Sorry Jon, I really am your father but your mother wasn't Catelyn Stark...oh wait, that's what I've been saying all along anyway." :bs:

Lyanna fits better as far as the Stark gene is concerned with Jon.

[GoodKingAlf]

I want to pick up on the point about the Dayne's being Targ loyalists.

That may explain why Gerold Darkstar Dayne charged down Myrcella.

[LadyMary]

Re: the line of succession - Aegon the Conqueror was not the rightful heir to the throne by blood. He won the throne by defeating the rest of the Kingdom. Thereafter, the Targaryen line occupied the throne for most of 300 years. So, Robert was not the last living claimant to the Targaryen throne, but since Rhaegar and his (known) children were murdered and Aerys' children were in exile, of those remaining after the rebellion Robert did have the best claim by blood as well as through battle.

My question to the R+L = J troops is : what do we gain by Jon being a Targaryen ?

He can't be APTWP/Azor Ahai/Stallion that will mount the world because given what we've seen, Daeny fits the job.

The only other option is he's the Heir of Seven Kingdoms, since he is the son of the oldest child of the king. Again, beating Daeny to the punch*. Not to mention he's at the Wall, having taken the vows of the Watch...and unless R+J got married, he is an illegitimate child. And he doesn't look like a Targaryen to begin with.

If, however, he's a Baratheon and a fully legitimized Stark (certainly Robb and Stannis consider him a Stark enough to offer Winterfell/make him heir in the will), he can be King of the North and rally the folk up there. And the last of the royal line.

*assuming Daenerys will rule the Kingdoms. I think she's APTWP only, and not the future Queen.

I agree with you about Dany being the PTWP and I don't think she'll ever sit on the Iron Throne, at least not as it currently exists or represents. She may be a Queen by acclamation of the people but more importantly, she's the Savior.

Speaking only for myself, the mystery of Jon's parentage is important at a personal level for Jon, Ned and Danerys. I don't think it has anything to do with him being the PTWP or even that he will literally fly one of the dragons. I think Jon will have a big role to play in the war against the Others, as will Danaerys, but he might be one of figurative heads of the dragon, joining forces with the PTWP/AA (Dany).

However, being Rhaegar's son and a Targaryen would explain why Ned Stark went to such lengths to keep that secret, why he lied and lived with the fallout of his lies for 14 years and why he would live with the shame of dishonor for himself and his wife, if it was all to protect the life of another person; his sister's son.

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

My question to the R+L = J troops is : what do we gain by Jon being a Targaryen ?

He can't be APTWP/Azor Ahai/Stallion that will mount the world because given what we've seen, Daeny fits the job.

The only other option is he's the Heir of Seven Kingdoms, since he is the son of the oldest child of the king. Again, beating Daeny to the punch*. Not to mention he's at the Wall, having taken the vows of the Watch...and unless R+J got married, he is an illegitimate child. And he doesn't look like a Targaryen to begin with.

If, however, he's a Baratheon and a fully legitimized Stark (certainly Robb and Stannis consider him a Stark enough to offer Winterfell/make him heir in the will), he can be King of the North and rally the folk up there. And the last of the royal line.

*assuming Daenerys will rule the Kingdoms. I think she's APTWP only, and not the future Queen.

1.) How does legitimizing work in detail? Do they decree "he is a trueborn son of his father" or "he is the trueborn son of eddard stark". One can see that this is really important!

2.) I believe we will see a switcheroo between Jorah Mormont and Jon Snow verrrry soon, as was the old bears last wish, and Jorah just lost everything he cared for, so why not take the black. Making Jorah Lord Commander 999. Then Dany comes along as the Savior, and gets to be Lord Commander 1000.

3.) Jon will be king and has to marry Margery Tyrell, who just lost her husband ... again.

4.) Sansa gets to be the Lady of the Rock with Tyrion her husband.

5.) Bran or Rickon is the new King beyond the Wall

6.) The other Stark is the new Stark of Winterfell

7.) Arya goes wild and kills them all as a FM, last scene is her looking at the tombstones of them all and Syrio saying "just so"

[zmflavius]

zmflavius....

Don't wanna break the current flow of conversation is but I'm compiling those quotes. So don't think I ignored you or got distracted. It just takes time to search through like over 4000 pages of text.

I'll find 5 quotes but this is the last time I do this kind of research. I won't be scanning the books again. Do your own research in future.

Typical of snowians however... snowians make wild claims about Jon being Azah Ahai and head of a dragon from prophecy. Oh plus all the other hero dreams of Jon I read in here, totally unchallenged. As long as the person accepts R+L=J bullshit theories get accepted as gospel.

Yet I claim Wylla could be 1 of 3 mothers for Jon with Ned as father and get accused of blue murder and have peeps demanding 5 quotes for just one of the mother possibilities.

Here is a down payment until I find the other

1. “You told me once. Was it Merryl? You know the one I mean, your bastard’s mother?”

“Her name was Wylla,” Ned replied with cool courtesy, “and I would sooner not speak of her.”

“Wylla, yes.” The king grinned.

hmm, well seem's pretty cut and dry to me.

2. "Ned’s mouth tightened in anger. “Nor will I. Leave it be, Robert, for the love you say you bear me. I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men.”

this clearly shows Ned's shame at sleeping with a woman he wasn't wed to. Cut down the line to "I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men.”

If he was lying to Lyanna to save a baby, how would he be dishonouring himself? Robert wasn't talking about a child, he was talking about Ned dipping his whick in Wylla.

3. From Edric Dayne

“Jon Snow’s mother. He never told you? She’s served us for years and years. Since before I was born.”

Note the "years and years". Servants gossip worse than chickens peck for food. If Wylla faked giving birth to Jon Snow, then surely one of the other servants would know?

4. spoiler chapter from aDwD

Davos chapter. Ned got someone preggo and left her with silver and a bastard. It was apparently the captains daughter, so that would rule out Ashara (at first glance). It happened early on in the war which is consistent with Jon's birth. The war lasted about a year so this is probably the strongest evidence of Ned being Jon's father. He dogged someone, was Wylla a daughter of a captain? Maybe so.... since Ned is such a nice guy he got her a job in a good house.

5. It's there I just can't find it yet. I remember a dude in some chapter saying something like "Wylla who is widely rumoured to be the mother."

So yeah.

I don't even believe totally that Wylla is the mother. I do however believe that Ned is the dad. I believe Ned is dad as hard out as you snowians believe R+L=J.

In conclusion....

bring on aDwD so we have some new stuff to argue over for the next 6-7 years.

P.S. gonna update my sig so peeps know I accepted the boot bet.

For a start, you've provided four quotes, and not five. For another thing, the first two quotes you provided are in the same conversation. This is like saying, "Event A occurred after the beginning of Event A," which is completely meaningless, even if it's true. Recall, that in my first post about five quotes, I mentioned that they should be separated by several pages so that they're unique quotes. Quotes along the lines of

Character A: I think Ned is Jon's Father

Character B: Wait I'm busy! So, what was that again?

Character A: I think Ned is Jon's Father

do not count as two quotes.

[Jon Blackfyre]

zmflavius....

Don't wanna break the current flow of conversation is but I'm compiling those quotes. So don't think I ignored you or got distracted. It just takes time to search through like over 4000 pages of text.

I'll find 5 quotes but this is the last time I do this kind of research. I won't be scanning the books again. Do your own research in future.

Typical of snowians however... snowians make wild claims about Jon being Azah Ahai and head of a dragon from prophecy. Oh plus all the other hero dreams of Jon I read in here, totally unchallenged. As long as the person accepts R+L=J bullshit theories get accepted as gospel.

Yet I claim Wylla could be 1 of 3 mothers for Jon with Ned as father and get accused of blue murder and have peeps demanding 5 quotes for just one of the mother possibilities.

Here is a down payment until I find the other

1. “You told me once. Was it Merryl? You know the one I mean, your bastard’s mother?”

“Her name was Wylla,” Ned replied with cool courtesy, “and I would sooner not speak of her.”

“Wylla, yes.” The king grinned.

hmm, well seem's pretty cut and dry to me.

2. "Ned’s mouth tightened in anger. “Nor will I. Leave it be, Robert, for the love you say you bear me. I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men.”

this clearly shows Ned's shame at sleeping with a woman he wasn't wed to. Cut down the line to "I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men.”

If he was lying to Lyanna to save a baby, how would he be dishonouring himself? Robert wasn't talking about a child, he was talking about Ned dipping his whick in Wylla.

3. From Edric Dayne

“Jon Snow’s mother. He never told you? She’s served us for years and years. Since before I was born.”

Note the "years and years". Servants gossip worse than chickens peck for food. If Wylla faked giving birth to Jon Snow, then surely one of the other servants would know?

4. spoiler chapter from aDwD

Davos chapter. Ned got someone preggo and left her with silver and a bastard. It was apparently the captains daughter, so that would rule out Ashara (at first glance). It happened early on in the war which is consistent with Jon's birth. The war lasted about a year so this is probably the strongest evidence of Ned being Jon's father. He dogged someone, was Wylla a daughter of a captain? Maybe so.... since Ned is such a nice guy he got her a job in a good house.

5. It's there I just can't find it yet. I remember a dude in some chapter saying something like "Wylla who is widely rumoured to be the mother."

So yeah.

I don't even believe totally that Wylla is the mother. I do however believe that Ned is the dad. I believe Ned is dad as hard out as you snowians believe R+L=J.

In conclusion....

bring on aDwD so we have some new stuff to argue over for the next 6-7 years.

P.S. gonna update my sig so peeps know I accepted the boot bet.

As zmflavius said, your 1 & 2 are from the same convo. And it didn't "clearly"show Neds shame at sleeping with another woman considering he is talking to the man that would kill Jon if he found out about Rhaegar being his father. The shame and dishonor is from his lying about it for years.

Number 3, again, Edric Dayne want born yet, his opinion, or stories told to him don't mean jack. You say servants gossip... Well what would be better gossip for Wylla? To say she slept with the Lord of Winterfell and had his child or she nursed Rhaegar's son? Not to mention the Daynes are loyal to the Targaryens and she is a servant in there house, she would keep their secrets too.

Number 4 hasn't happened yet so I won't comment on it, but the logistics of that woman being Wylla doesn't work.

Number 5... widely rumored because that is the story Ned let be spread to hide the truth. If that quote even exists.

Refuted, try again.

[SerArthurHeath]

zmflavius....

Don't wanna break the current flow of conversation is but I'm compiling those quotes. So don't think I ignored you or got distracted. It just takes time to search through like over 4000 pages of text.

I'll find 5 quotes but this is the last time I do this kind of research. I won't be scanning the books again. Do your own research in future.

Typical of snowians however... snowians make wild claims about Jon being Azah Ahai and head of a dragon from prophecy. Oh plus all the other hero dreams of Jon I read in here, totally unchallenged. As long as the person accepts R+L=J bullshit theories get accepted as gospel.

Yet I claim Wylla could be 1 of 3 mothers for Jon with Ned as father and get accused of blue murder and have peeps demanding 5 quotes for just one of the mother possibilities.

Here is a down payment until I find the other

1. “You told me once. Was it Merryl? You know the one I mean, your bastard’s mother?”

“Her name was Wylla,” Ned replied with cool courtesy, “and I would sooner not speak of her.”

“Wylla, yes.” The king grinned.

hmm, well seem's pretty cut and dry to me.

2. "Ned’s mouth tightened in anger. “Nor will I. Leave it be, Robert, for the love you say you bear me. I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men.”

this clearly shows Ned's shame at sleeping with a woman he wasn't wed to. Cut down the line to "I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men.”

If he was lying to Lyanna to save a baby, how would he be dishonouring himself? Robert wasn't talking about a child, he was talking about Ned dipping his whick in Wylla.

3. From Edric Dayne

“Jon Snow’s mother. He never told you? She’s served us for years and years. Since before I was born.”

Note the "years and years". Servants gossip worse than chickens peck for food. If Wylla faked giving birth to Jon Snow, then surely one of the other servants would know?

4. spoiler chapter from aDwD

Davos chapter. Ned got someone preggo and left her with silver and a bastard. It was apparently the captains daughter, so that would rule out Ashara (at first glance). It happened early on in the war which is consistent with Jon's birth. The war lasted about a year so this is probably the strongest evidence of Ned being Jon's father. He dogged someone, was Wylla a daughter of a captain? Maybe so.... since Ned is such a nice guy he got her a job in a good house.

5. It's there I just can't find it yet. I remember a dude in some chapter saying something like "Wylla who is widely rumoured to be the mother."

So yeah.

I don't even believe totally that Wylla is the mother. I do however believe that Ned is the dad. I believe Ned is dad as hard out as you snowians believe R+L=J.

In conclusion....

bring on aDwD so we have some new stuff to argue over for the next 6-7 years.

P.S. gonna update my sig so peeps know I accepted the boot bet.

Nobody is having a go at you for saying that Wylla could be Jon's mother, that is a strong possibility even if I personally think the evidence for R+L is stronger overall. What did annoy some people, particularly me is the use of derogitary and incorrect terms like Snowians and then inaccurate generalisations with no evidence base attacking the people who hold the theory that doesn't fit with yours. I completely agree that there is some evidence for Ned and Wylla, but I don't think you can successfully explain away the evidence for R+L unless you use multiple theories for different facts, and that makes R+L most likely to be true until we receive more evidence either pro or against the opposing theories.

[SerArthurHeath]

Although, it does seem like the TV show is teasing us - saw this quote on TVWP

"Jon: I never met my mother. My father wouldn't even tell me her name. I don't know if she's even living or dead. I don't know if she's a noblewoman, or a fisherman's wife, or a whore. So I sat there, in the brothel, as Ros took off her clothes. I couldn't do it. 'Cause all I could think was, "What if I got her pregnant? And she had a child, another bastard named Snow. It's not a good life for a child."

Nice subtle pointer towards the different theories. If the writers haven't seen the new spoilers, some of it might be accidental but it's still rather amusing

[House Stark for Life]

Well that is a good way of working it into the tv show without all the hints we get in the books.

I think we should keep a running tally of who accepts the boot bet! What are all our locations? It may be hard to prove that people live up to their end of the bargin when Jon's true parantage is revealed by GRRM.

I will gladly take up the bet in favor of R+L=J. Rhaegar not Robert.

[Dragonfish]

My question to the R+L = J troops is : what do we gain by Jon being a Targaryen ? ...

If, however, he's a Baratheon and a fully legitimized Stark (certainly Robb and Stannis consider him a Stark enough to offer Winterfell/make him heir in the will), he can be King of the North and rally the folk up there. And the last of the royal line.

I'm confused, how would Jon being a Baratheon make more sense than Jon being a Targ? Either way, he's the child of a royal line. Either way, he may be a bastard (although it's far more likely he's a legitimate child if he's the son of Rhaegar instead of Robert). Either way, he has forfeited whatever claims he has by taking his vows. I just don't see how his being a Baratheon makes any more sense for the story than his being a Targ.

5. It's there I just can't find it yet. I remember a dude in some chapter saying something like "Wylla who is widely rumoured to be the mother."

I'm almost certain no such quote exists.

[Galen M]

I'm almost certain no such quote exists.

I'm pretty certain there was such a quote, but it was for Ashara Dayne, not Wylla.

[Jeejee]

I want to pick up on the point about the Dayne's being Targ loyalists.

Going back to this: the Daynes appear to have Targaryen-esque features - at least going by Edric and Darkstar. Edric is described as very fair, with eyes that look "almost purple." Darkstar has the silver hair and purple eyes. This indicates that the two families interbred, which would seem to imply strong ties.

[Dragonfish]

Going back to this: the Daynes appear to have Targaryen-esque features - at least going by Edric and Darkstar. Edric is described as very fair, with eyes that look "almost purple." Darkstar has the silver hair and purple eyes. This indicates that the two families interbred, which would seem to imply strong ties.

Actually, this is incorrect, according to a SSM (see the second to last bullet at the bottom of the page).