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Werthead

First review of ADWD

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Is Lev Grossman actually going to review ADwD this time, like, singularly review the book and not basically give an overview of the series like he did with his review of AFfC?

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I like the Martells (the Queen of Thorns rocks!) and have no problem with Brienne; but I hope that all of the Greyjoys sink, die, take the black, or otherwise leave the scenario, starting with Theon.

The queen of thorns (Olenna) is a member of the Tyrell family, actually. And not friends with the Martells.

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I don't see how the review actually matters to anyone here. 99.9% of us are going to buy the book. I'll buy it and read it over and over again.

I would expect books 6-8 to take ten more years total. And yes, I am convinced there will be eight. Every book post-ACOK has expanded beyond GRRM's expectations. I expect this trend to hold.

:agree: I mean, this is GRRM we're talking about... when has he ever properly estimated how long this story will be? Initially it was a trilogy (Red Wedding was slated for Book ONE), then it grew to 5 books, then to 7... No way he will wrap everything up in 2 more books after Dance... He says himself he's overly optimistic on things of this nature. I'm guessing at least 9 to finish up, and fine by me... the more the better IMO... this is one of those rare series I will be truly sad to finish.

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I expect TWoW to take another 2 years, 3 max. GRRM has said that he doesn't want the TV series catching up with him, so that gives him 4 years to publish the next one and 5 to publish the last one. So I think we will see the next two falling into place 2-3 years since the last one.

Not to douse our hopes, but GRRM has stated (several times I think) that he doesn't think the HBO series can catch him up because Clash will have to be split into two TV seasons (too much cutting to do it in 10-12 episodes), and aSoS split as well, and I don't think they could do Feast for TV cuz viewers won't tolerate the major characters taking a season off, so the stories will have to be concurrent (i.e. Feast & Dance combined for TV), and doing it that way would have to be split into 2 or more seasons too... so at a minimum we're looking at 6 years (2 CoK + 2 Sos + 2 aFfC/aDwD) before the show would threaten to catch up to the books... so all he has to do is put out Winds within the next 5 years or so before he need be worried...

For my 2 cents, HBO, seems like it would be cheaper to expand seasons 2 and 3 to 24 episodes, and gain more viewers that way, as opposed to keeping up a budget for that long (I imagine budget costs to go up as story gets more complex, especially CGI costs for battles, direwolves, and dragons)... not many TV shows last 8-10 years. This is my biggest worry about GoT going beyond a season 2, cuz once they pick up a season 3, they might as well be in for the long haul. Sorry to digress from Topic. :hat:

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Lets just assume that the TV series does catch up to GRRM before he completes TWoW (if the TV series lasts that long because i read that its ratings hav dropped), would that mean he would divulge more of the series to HBO and they would continue the series prior to the next books release?

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Well that would be very interesting. I am guessing he would just to keep the series going. But I think he will finish before that point. Now that he has all the character arcs back where he needs them. In the sense that he can put all needed viwepoints in the Winds of Winter, and have the timeline not be as large of an issue. Now it may take 2-3 years to see the next novel, but he will be without all of the time, and plot issues that were in Dance. As long as Danny is on her way to Westeros by the end of the book I will be a happy camper. My idea is that by the end of Dance we will see the full fledged invasion by the Others, and the wall right on the brink of falling / being overrun......and the book ends. GRRM loves those cliffhangers.

Are there any other reviews out yet or just this 1?

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Well the biggest thing people did not like about AFFC was the new POVs. Well this volume is going to be full of Dany, Jon, and Tyrion so saying it has the same issue is a strange statement indeed.

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Lets just assume that the TV series does catch up to GRRM before he completes TWoW (if the TV series lasts that long because i read that its ratings hav dropped), would that mean he would divulge more of the series to HBO and they would continue the series prior to the next books release?

This is HBO. The ratings are not insignificant but the DVD sales will be what makes or breaks this series.

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This is HBO. The ratings are not insignificant but the DVD sales will be what makes or breaks this series.

Ahh. Now that I didn't know. I thought a ratings slump meant a shows decline.

On Topic: In any case, I wouldn't worry myself with this review of ADwD. As far as i'm concerned this book will be far superior to AFFC. From the spoiler chapters i've read on this forum there is more action in those first few chapters than the entire AFFC. More importantly my favourite characters are back - Bran, John and Dany. oh and don't forget our favourite halfman. I believe the last time we had a Tyrion, John, Bran or Dany chapter it was the time of the Clinton administration. Think of all that time. I guarantee once we get this book, all the despair at the wait and fears about ADWD will be laid to rest.

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This is HBO. The ratings are not insignificant but the DVD sales will be what makes or breaks this series.

Indeed. I will be buying 4 or 5 copies of the DVD's just to support the effort to give as gifts. Also to poster above regarding dropped ratings, not true. They slipped a little bit over Memorial Day weekend (as the episode was available a week early, and its a holiday), but otherwise they have been steady and I've read HBO is happy with them.

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Indeed. I will be buying 4 or 5 copies of the DVD's just to support the effort to give as gifts. Also to poster above regarding dropped ratings, not true. They slipped a little bit over Memorial Day weekend (as the episode was available a week early, and its a holiday), but otherwise they have been steady and I've read HBO is happy with them.

After episode 8 the ratings hit a new high. They are up overall 22% since the debut. :)

Also it's not just the DVD sales, but merchandise sales as well. It's going very well in that department too, 2nd only to True Blood! The show is so easy to merchandise.. so many houses, sigils, mottos, etc.

I have my doubts that HBO will do the entire series, but there is definitely hope.

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You obviously weren't around the forums when Arms of the Kraken (the novella that was released a few years before AFFC) came out. It was highly regarded and got everyone here MORE excited about AFFC. It also earned a Hugo nomination. AotK consisted of the Greyjoy chapters that later made it in to AFFC right up until the end of the Kingsmoot.

I thought it was the strongest story arc in all of Feast; with a beginning, a midpoint and a whiz-bang ending.

It inevitable in a well-crafted tale of a world falling into chaos that while the story may start small, it must grow to reflect that more players would enter the game. Only in hack-written fantasy stories would the rest of the world stand idle while a bastard, an exile and a dwarf saved humankind. Thankfully, this is not such a story. Each of the players big and small attempts to turn events in their favor.

I was, and I agree with you. There was a lot of excitement. Personally I took a 3 hour lunch and read it as soon it was available.

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:agree: I mean, this is GRRM we're talking about... when has he ever properly estimated how long this story will be? Initially it was a trilogy (Red Wedding was slated for Book ONE), then it grew to 5 books, then to 7... No way he will wrap everything up in 2 more books after Dance... He says himself he's overly optimistic on things of this nature. I'm guessing at least 9 to finish up, and fine by me... the more the better IMO... this is one of those rare series I will be truly sad to finish.

:agree:... even if ADwD could change my mind. I think that GRRM needs 3-4 more books to finish ASoIaF story because there are simply too many stories to tell, too many charachters and location to explore, the tale seems really far from his climax and the POV structure is not flexible enough to allow a quicker pace without loosing in terms of quality, focus and epicness. I hope that GRRM wont' rush just to stick to a plan (and I believe that he won't).

I will never have enough Westeros in my life so it's not a problem for me even if it means that we will have to wait more before we see the world end.

PS: Maybe he could make it with 7 books if TWoW and ADoS are very long... and I mean way longer than ASoS (something like 2000 pages splitted in two volumes).

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Well that would be very interesting. I am guessing he would just to keep the series going. But I think he will finish before that point. Now that he has all the character arcs back where he needs them. In the sense that he can put all needed viwepoints in the Winds of Winter, and have the timeline not be as large of an issue. Now it may take 2-3 years to see the next novel, but he will be without all of the time, and plot issues that were in Dance. As long as Danny is on her way to Westeros by the end of the book I will be a happy camper. My idea is that by the end of Dance we will see the full fledged invasion by the Others, and the wall right on the brink of falling / being overrun......and the book ends. GRRM loves those cliffhangers.

Are there any other reviews out yet or just this 1?

To get back on topic, this is the only review out thus far... with at least a few other known reviewers in-process of reading the book to write their own reviews (reviewer for Time comes to mind). As to your post, you seem to make some assumptions about Dance... I mean, plot and writing issues are just going to happen. Much like no addict plans to become addicted, no writer intentionally creates difficult writing challenges for themselves. So myself, I assume GRRM has taken steps to avoid such pitfalls in future books, but such writing difficulties tend to creep up unforseen, and we won't know it until he actually is into the meat of writing... but here's to keeping our fingers crossed for a new book before my toddler starts kindergarten! :grouphug:

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Not to douse our hopes, but GRRM has stated (several times I think) that he doesn't think the HBO series can catch him up because Clash will have to be split into two TV seasons (too much cutting to do it in 10-12 episodes), and aSoS split as well, and I don't think they could do Feast for TV cuz viewers won't tolerate the major characters taking a season off, so the stories will have to be concurrent (i.e. Feast & Dance combined for TV), and doing it that way would have to be split into 2 or more seasons too... so at a minimum we're looking at 6 years (2 CoK + 2 Sos + 2 aFfC/aDwD) before the show would threaten to catch up to the books... so all he has to do is put out Winds within the next 5 years or so before he need be worried...

For my 2 cents, HBO, seems like it would be cheaper to expand seasons 2 and 3 to 24 episodes, and gain more viewers that way, as opposed to keeping up a budget for that long (I imagine budget costs to go up as story gets more complex, especially CGI costs for battles, direwolves, and dragons)... not many TV shows last 8-10 years. This is my biggest worry about GoT going beyond a season 2, cuz once they pick up a season 3, they might as well be in for the long haul. Sorry to digress from Topic. :hat:

A clash of kings will be one season. ASOS will likely be two seasons.

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Apparently Bantam are going to be sending out some early-finished copies earlier than previously thought (by the end of June, apparently), so there will be more pre-release reviews than we first thought.

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Apparently Bantam are going to be sending out some early-finished copies earlier than previously thought (by the end of June, apparently), so there will be more pre-release reviews than we first thought.

Now who do I have to bribe, maim or murder to get an early copy? I don't trust any critics review over my own, I think a petition needs to be started for me to get an early copy and I'll let you all know within 48 hours how the book measures up.

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Off topic but I have to think the books will speed up now. I mean they can't get any slower, and he's stated he already has a few hundred chapters or TWOW written.

AFFC and ADWD were never meant to be written, but the 5 year gap never appeared, the children were never given the chance to age as intended, so now they will just do things that no normal teenager should do, like conquer a kingdom etc...

I'm thinking ADWD is the turning point of the books, where the ball finally gets rolling on getting to the ending of the series, as sad as that may be.

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I'm thinking ADWD is the turning point of the books, where the ball finally gets rolling on getting to the ending of the series, as sad as that may be.

Sad? I'm thinking most of us devoutly hope that this is so. In that sense, at least, the review was positive: it seems to hint that aDwD very much sets up the pieces for the final part of the story.

As for the next few books. We really don't know what issues are going to crop up, and whether it will be as difficult to resolve as the Meereenese knot. It will be interesting to read the end of aDwD while knowing how much difficulty GRRM had in writing it. I wonder if we'll be able to spot what exactly was so hard about it.

As for tWoW, i'm guessing it's around 100-150 MS pages or so. Which isn't a whole lot, but it's a start. Then again he started writing aDwD with 500-some MS pages and we all know how that turned out ;). Also I think it will be the end of the year before he even starts writing the book - he's had to neglect or postpone some other projects to finish aDwD, and he needs to take care of some of those first.

I'm very much looking forward to other DwD reviews now :) Not so much for my own opinion. I just want the book to be well-received. I hope all GRRM's hard work paid off.

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