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Humble Asskicker

Dresden Files

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Thanks for sharing that post Scot, It puts things in perspective for me. I found this board years ago, when I was waiting for AFFC to be published. The wait was absolutely killing me. I would check out GRRM websight every day to see if there was an update. I knew that there was a fairly strict policy on this board to not complain about wait times, and I didn't think that I had the ability to shut my mouth if I were to post, so I only lurked here for years.

When the HBO series came out, and ADWD was announced, I finally thought that I may have the ability to keep my frustrations to myself, so I started posting here.

Reading how spoiled these Dresden fans are is an eye opener. It makes me feel bad about my impatiens with GRRM. I never participated in the negative discussions that surrounded him, but I definitely was upset about something that I now see that I had absolutely no right to be upset about.

That said, I just finished book 8. These Dresden novels just keep getting better. This novel actual brought a little tear to my eye when

Harry was ready to die to protect Molly from the judgement of the White Council

. I may stop by Mr. Butcher's sight later and sign up to tell him thanks for the good reads.

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Well, no software is going to have an actual problem with it. The professional copyeditors who have to read the computer printouts later will, but that's because they are being told by humans that the extra spaces have to go. So this whole thing was seriously just meant as a "beleaguered copyeditor" joke.

On typewritten sheets -- well, nowadays copyeditors don't have to deal with typewritten sheets, so it's moot, but the extra space looks different on a typewritten sheet than it does on a computer printout, especially now that basically all layout programs do line-by-line ledding/kerning/justification cheats automatically. The extra space throws off the automatic cheats. The computer won't stop a writer from doing it, but it messes with alignment for the art/layout and copy staff processing the text later (which is even more crucial now that lots of magazine text is being converted for iPad compatibility as well -- copyeditors have to make sure that each page begins and ends on the same word regardless of horizontal or vertical view).

Certain word processing and layout programs automatically put a slightly larger space after a period than they do after a comma, so that to very very picky eyes, the extra space doesn't look nice once the program has finished compensating for it. (The size of the space can also be altered by certain IT whizzes.)

Quark did it, InCopy and InDesign do it... I don't remember if PageMaker did, but it was when we went from manual paste-up to PageMaker that we had to switch to one space. Slate.com actually did a fairly obnoxious article on it that I thought was taking things a step too far.

And seriously, I never meant for a one-off jokey comment to snowball into such complexity. Outside of actual art/production in publishing, it doesn't matter at all.

I don't know if it would even affect any writer (or any but the most obsessive-compulsive editor's opinion of a writer) turning in a manuscript if they were to add in the extra spaces. (Certainly it wouldn't affect an already successful writer like Butcher. I have, however, been responsible for taking those extra spaces out of said manuscripts. (Easier on-screen than in red pencil, but I've had to do it both ways, and the latter makes me want to die.)

Now, when I was a student (mid 80s), we were indeed taught that we had to put an extra space after periods. I'm not disputing that. When I entered publishing (2000), I had to unlearn it. I personally don't care, but if/ when my reputation as a professional nitpicker hinges on it, I'm gonna take the steps to get in the habit of doing it "their way" for continuity's sake. I'm not trying to tell anyone they're doing wrong or right -- I'm just adding in an only very vaguely topical factoid about a very specific industry. I guess it would have been funnier if it were less obscure! :-)

Although I seem to be adding the extra spaces by reflex in this comment. Don't tell on me. :drunk:

Screeching back to topic -- bravo, Mr. Butcher!

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Reading how spoiled these Dresden fans are is an eye opener. It makes me feel bad about my impatiens with GRRM. I never participated in the negative discussions that surrounded him, but I definitely was upset about something that I now see that I had absolutely no right to be upset about.

Like I say, even within the topic itself it was a tiny minority.

It's a totally different situation than with GRRM though. I mean I am on the "GRRM is not your bitch" side and most specifically the "take your time, release good product" side but complaining about five years with multiple missed target dates is an entirely different proposition to the reader setting the target himself (he expected it within a year of Ghost Story) and complaining that that won't happen because Butcher has hobbies and announced before Christmas that he wouldn't start Cold Days till January, despite the fact that no-one has made any announcement on potential dates beyond 'maybe late this year' and that there's absolutely no reason to believe that won't happen, which is what the one guy that Butcher was specifically responding to was doing.

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Yes, epic smackdown - except for the fact that he admits to LARPing.

And it's two spaces after a period. Every time. See, I'm doing it now. I've never even heard of people that think it's not supposed to be that way until I stumbled upon this thread.

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Yes, epic smackdown - except for the fact that he admits to LARPing.

And it's two spaces after a period. Every time. See, I'm doing it now. I've never even heard of people that think it's not supposed to be that way until I stumbled upon this thread.

People think it's not supposed to be that way because the rule you're referring to changed, generally. Gonna conduct a little experiment here to show why. Have I double-spaced at all in this sentence, or just single-spaced throughout? Or have I mixed it up some and, if so, where?

ETA: I'll give you a hint- at one point I spaced five times in a row.

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I have finished the meat of the series in all 13 books, and am now about 100 pages away from completing all of the stories in Side Jobs. This series took me by storm. I have always been a fan of noir and fantasy. The blending of the two genres is brilliant in its seamless style. Harry Dresden is a much deeper character in the development of these books. This series has been the best recommendation that I have received from these boards so far.

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People think it's not supposed to be that way because the rule you're referring to changed, generally. Gonna conduct a little experiment here to show why. Have I double-spaced at all in this sentence, or just single-spaced throughout? Or have I mixed it up some and, if so, where?

ETA: I'll give you a hint- at one point I spaced five times in a row.

I suspect the forum software is editing the amount of spaces. Here, I'll test it, putting a ton of spaces in below

one and two.

I put about fifty spaces between 'and' and 'two'.

Not showing, is it? Robots make us all the same! All the same!

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I suspect the forum software is editing the amount of spaces. Here, I'll test it, putting a ton of spaces in below

one and two.

I put about fifty spaces between 'and' and 'two'.

Not showing, is it? Robots make us all the same! All the same!

This is true of pretty much all of the internet. Another part of the software you'll notice is that additional space is automatically added between sentences. Thus, double-spacing serves little purpose in the modern era. It doesn't really hurt anything, except in very specific circumstances. I was simply showing to the poster I quoted why it's not really something that's done anymore.

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I swear, I'm really trying to get into this series. But I'm having a rough time. I keep hearing such good things, and there are already some things that really interest me, but there are some annoying problems I'm having trouble overlooking.

I read the 1st book a couple years ago. I've had 3 or 4 false starts on the 2nd and am about half way through on my latest try. The prevailing opinion seems to be this series takes off at book 3, but so far here are my major gripes:

1. I can't help but feel like sometimes Harry Dresden is basically the author's sad, high school escape fantasy. Whenever I read about Harry's "Old school attitudes about how to treat a woman" who seems to always be an "old world beauty" I can't help visualizing a skinny kid in a trenchcoat imagining that if he just were a real wizard, that slightly overweight girl who sits next to him in 3rd period would notice him and realize he would REALLY treat her like the lady she is..... I feel like a jerk just writing that, but it's getting on my nerves. Once the action hits, I really am enjoying the ride, but all too often I feel like I'm reading about a cheezy parody of a character that the author is treating with all seriousness.

2. Am I supposed to actually like Murphy? She's described as a great cop and Harry's friend (and reason he can pay his rent), but all she seems to do is lash out at everyone around her (especially Harry) when something doesn't go her way. It's repeated over and over that she made a lot of enemies in the police department, and I can see why. Lately I've been reading the book as if she and Harry have this weird, abusive co-dependancy thing going on, but I really don't think what's what the author was going for.

When I can ignore or get over all that, I really enjoy the ride in these books. Does this stuff get better as I get into book 3 and beyond? Becuase right now it's falling firmly in the "great story, bad writing" category for me...

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Keep reading, keep reading. Your complaints are valid, especially your complaints about Murph in the first two books.

Everything about the series really does get better after 1 and 2. I nearly gave up on the series myself, except that people kept telling me to keep going. Now I've read every single book (except for Ghost Story) at least twice, and some of them I've read 3 times. Yeah, you could say I warmed up to the series. ;)

Don't give up yet! If you don't like the series after Grave Peril, THEN give up on it.

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I just read the entire series last month, but I enjoyed it from book one throughout the series. The first couple of books are obviously a person's first attempts at writing a novel, and I think they both come off successful, but a bit juvenile. His characterizations get better and better as he goes, and his action remains at the same frantic pace. I think they are very much worth reading.

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Keep reading, keep reading. Your complaints are valid, especially your complaints about Murph in the first two books.

Everything about the series really does get better after 1 and 2. I nearly gave up on the series myself, except that people kept telling me to keep going. Now I've read every single book (except for Ghost Story) at least twice, and some of them I've read 3 times. Yeah, you could say I warmed up to the series. ;)

Don't give up yet! If you don't like the series after Grave Peril, THEN give up on it.

Yeah, pretty much this. The first two books are the weakest by far, the third is a good bit better, and it really takes off in book four. Murphy is annoying in the first books, but gets much better by book 4, and after that she's one of the better characters in the series. Harry is always old school with his ideas about females, but you are off with his ideas on it. Dresden actually uses Harry's old school attitudes towards women as one of his biggest weaknesses.

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Thanks for the thoughts guys.

Harry is always old school with his ideas about females, but you are off with his ideas on it. Dresden actually uses Harry's old school attitudes towards women as one of his biggest weaknesses.

I'm actually to the point where I'm beginning to see this. Initially, it seemed like Butcher was attempting to give Harry a bullshit "I'm just too noble and respectful to women" psudo-weakness. But the story is starting to actually explore and examine the actual repercussions of this attitude now. So color me impressed.

I'll definately at least give this series to book 3, but honestly I'm already more won over than I was yesterday.

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Thanks for the thoughts guys.

I'm actually to the point where I'm beginning to see this. Initially, it seemed like Butcher was attempting to give Harry a bullshit "I'm just too noble and respectful to women" psudo-weakness. But the story is starting to actually explore and examine the actual repercussions of this attitude now. So color me impressed.

I'll definately at least give this series to book 3, but honestly I'm already more won over than I was yesterday.

It's a real concern in the first few books. There's also what I consider race fail in his initial introduction of some senior members of the White Council. While I get that Butcher was trying to represent diversity of magic through cultures instead of a purely Eurocentric thing, we essentially got stereotypes. That and Dresden's interaction with women in general and Murphy in particular gave me a few what the hell moments early on. It has gotten better -- at this point in the series we do see this stuff turning back on Dresden, we get a better idea of what Butcher was going for before -- but the early characterization fell short of that.

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