Dresden Files

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I just read a HUGE spolier at "Dark lord potter" forums.

[End of Disc One]

Where??

They're all over the place. I'm not going to link to any for the sake of those with weak wills (and I haven't read any spoilers myself) but there's a spoiler thread right now on the GameFAQs Books & Literature board. There are also a couple on the Malazan Empire fan forum, in the Other Literature section under Jim Butcher.

[Poobah]

If you're desperate I can tell you the whole plot in a PM :dunno:

It's the best book in the series though IMO, so you really should wait and read it, ahmagawd it's so good!

[fionwe1987]

If you're desperate I can tell you the whole plot in a PM :dunno:

It's the best book in the series though IMO, so you really should wait and read it, ahmagawd it's so good!

AHHH! Five hours. Must... hold.... out!!!!

[fionwe1987]

AHHH! Five hours. Must... hold.... out!!!!

That lasted all of five seconds. But the spoilers have only made it HARDER to wait. About those spoilers... holy motherf*cking HELL! This is batshit INSANE!

[Kosciuszko]

Where??

Dark Lord Potter, like Ser Scot said (found via Google first page search) and the Giant in the Playground thread had some fairly comprehensive ones too.

[Kosciuszko]

I just downloaded it. I'm glad I never changed my Nook's time for Daylight Savings.

[Kouran]

So... I got the book yesterday here in DC at a store. Im about 60% through the book at the moment and will finish tonight. No spoilers but its good.

[Fiddler's Green]

So it's been a while since I re-read any of the books, I was thinking of doing a selective re-read starting with Death Masks (skipping a few of the weaker books in there) to get caught up on my Denarian awesomeness and remembers stuff I'd forgot, but I don't know if I can hold out that long.

[Poobah]

Absurdly massive Cold Days spoilers of doom to follow. I can't resist any longer.

BE SERIOUSLY FUCKING WARNED! SPOILERS RUIN LIVES.

AHMAGAWD Molly is the new Winter Lady. DEMONREACH holy shit. Mab! Holy crap is Mab awesome. Mother Summer + Winter. Titania at long last! Lilly dies! Maeve dies! Odin is santa! Outsiders everywhere! The Outer frikkin Gates and the Gatekeeper holy crap. What the hell is Mac? The Harry/Murphy ship finally sails! Harry and Murphy leading the Wild Hunt!

Mind=blown.

Cat Sith was so awesome, I really hope Mab manages to snag him and stick him in a block of ice to get him sorted out ala Lea. Speaking of where was Lea in this book?! Her absence can't be accidental.

Also I'm trying to think back to other books that happened at Halloween now that we know that anything in the mortal realm is fully mortal on that night.

Morgana's Atheme - I presume that'd be Morgana Le Fay? We now have 100% confirmation that it's a source/channel for outsider power, though we still don't know where it came from prior to Bianca getting her mitts on it, or what Mab did with it once she took it away from Lea. We definitely know that Mab touched it though 'cause she's wearing it when Harry accidentally summons her in place of Lea in DB. It appears for now that she resisted whatever influence it has, but do we think this'll come up again?

Harry has the power to release any of the inmates of Demonreach - so when's he gonna do it / be forced to, and what is he going to to unleash?

What's the secret name did Mother Summer wonder if Harry had called Mother Winter by? And how did Mother Winter loose her walking stick? She seemed decrepit when we last saw her, but that was at the summer equinox as I recall, when she would supposedly have been at her weakest - Cold Days takes place at Halloween though, and Mother Summer seems lively as ever, walking around and teleporting Harry to the Outer Gates with ease even when her power should be on the wane: what's up with that?

How're Michael and Charity gonna take Molly's new position? How long will she be able to hold on to being Molly before the mantle consumes her? Is that inevitable or can it be resisted if one has a strong enough will? Molly's mind is one of the strongest around as we saw from her mental duel with the Corpsetaker; she's rather the polar opposite of the air-head Lilly was supposed to have been prior to her change at any rate.

No Lash :( Hope she turns up next book. I needs me some Lash.

End download of random thoughts and squeeing.

[Kosciuszko]

Absurdly massive Cold Days spoilers of doom to follow. I can't resist any longer.

BE SERIOUSLY FUCKING WARNED! SPOILERS RUIN LIVES.

AHMAGAWD Molly is the new Winter Lady. DEMONREACH holy shit. Mab! Holy crap is Mab awesome. Mother Summer + Winter. Titania at long last! Lilly dies! Maeve dies! Odin is santa! Outsiders everywhere! The Outer frikkin Gates and the Gatekeeper holy crap. What the hell is Mac? The Harry/Murphy ship finally sails! Harry and Murphy leading the Wild Hunt!

Mind=blown.

Cat Sith was so awesome, I really hope Mab manages to snag him and stick him in a block of ice to get him sorted out ala Lea. Speaking of where was Lea in this book?! Her absence can't be accidental.

Also I'm trying to think back to other books that happened at Halloween now that we know that anything in the mortal realm is fully mortal on that night.

Morgana's Atheme - I presume that'd be Morgana Le Fay? We now have 100% confirmation that it's a source/channel for outsider power, though we still don't know where it came from prior to Bianca getting her mitts on it, or what Mab did with it once she took it away from Lea. We definitely know that Mab touched it though 'cause she's wearing it when Harry accidentally summons her in place of Lea in DB. It appears for now that she resisted whatever influence it has, but do we think this'll come up again?

Harry has the power to release any of the inmates of Demonreach - so when's he gonna do it / be forced to, and what is he going to to unleash?

What's the secret name did Mother Summer wonder if Harry had called Mother Winter by? And how did Mother Winter loose her walking stick? She seemed decrepit when we last saw her, but that was at the summer equinox as I recall, when she would supposedly have been at her weakest - Cold Days takes place at Halloween though, and Mother Summer seems lively as ever, walking around and teleporting Harry to the Outer Gates with ease even when her power should be on the wane: what's up with that?

How're Michael and Charity gonna take Molly's new position? How long will she be able to hold on to being Molly before the mantle consumes her? Is that inevitable or can it be resisted if one has a strong enough will? Molly's mind is one of the strongest around as we saw from her mental duel with the Corpsetaker; she's rather the polar opposite of the air-head Lilly was supposed to have been prior to her change at any rate.

No Lash :( Hope she turns up next book. I needs me some Lash.

End download of random thoughts and squeeing.

Random thoughts and stuff I've seen others mention on some of this:

Mother Winter's walking stick might be Eb's Blackstaff, which would imply a portion of her power was lost when it was swiped. Her power is also under attack by the Outsiders much more than Mother Summer's, and with the continuous attack they've been launching this has to be some kind of a strain on her.

I don't think Harry's ever going to release the inmates of Demonreach. At least not until the apocalypse trilogy that Butcher's going to end the series with. It might be due to tapping into the Well before he can properly handle it, as several times in the book he considered doing so and then rejected it as an incredibly stupid idea.

The Outer Gates and the Winter stuff in general was simply amazing, and really does a rather cool take on the idea of how Summer and Winter fit into the balance of the world. Rather than the fairly straightforward view we had in Summer Knight, where it would mess with the seasons, it's much more apparent that it runs deeper than that. And not a permanent thing, either; I seem to recall mentions of previous groups holding the gates before Winter, and considering all the Queens (except maybe the Mothers?) appear to have been mortal at some point, I'm inclined to believe they were made what they were by Atlantis or some other pre-history civilization (Atlantis mentioned at one point during the book, I forget by who, but the spoke of it as an actual thing).

ETA: Not seen this mentioned anywhere:

What was up with the note telling Harry to look behind him right before Cat Sith attacked? I'm starting to suspect time travel was involved, though it seems awfully direct. This book had a lot of temporal stuff happening.

[End of Disc One]

So it's been a while since I re-read any of the books, I was thinking of doing a selective re-read starting with Death Masks (skipping a few of the weaker books in there) to get caught up on my Denarian awesomeness and remembers stuff I'd forgot, but I don't know if I can hold out that long.

Skipping Summer Knight? Cold Days is like a spiritual successor to that book it seems (it's also one of my personal favorites).

[Derfel Cadarn]

I liked it.

Crazy theory: I suspect at the end, Harry will end up going back in time to become Merlin and thus set up the Council etc, and create Demonsreach. In some legends of Merlin he's supposed to have knowledge of the future which would fit. One of the characters strongly hints to Dresden that he'l use time travel. Plus he's linked to Excalibur.

[Argonath Diver]

Crushed the ebook today. My head hurts. The last three books have been absurdly awesome now. Wow. Mega Spoiler Thoughts!

- Did I forget already, or is this the first time people have referred to Harry as "starborn" ? It happened twice, to my count.

-I also wondered about the "Turn around" sign that was never really explained. At first I thought it was just Sith gloating but that's kind of silly.

-Mac fascinates me. He says multiple times "I am out." I now am convinced that he is an Outsider who has somehow elected to become Neutral or a Watcher of some sort.

-I assume the Parasite that Harry has to deal with later is Lash, yeah?

-So Nicodemus/The Fallen are not necessarily allied with The Black Council, who may or may not be allied with The Outsiders, correct?

I recall that Changes was supposedly a halfway point for Dresden's story, concluding with the apocalyptic circus of the final trilogy. So holy crap I can't even fathom how amped up these next books are going to be, compared to Dresden hunting some werewolves.

[Fiddler's Green]

Skipping Summer Knight? Cold Days is like a spiritual successor to that book it seems (it's also one of my personal favorites).

Yeah, in retrospect I ended up starting at Summer Knight. I'm thinking I'll skip/skim Blood Rites/White Night (the White Court stuff is my least favorite subplot)

[fionwe1987]

Wow. Just got done. Changed perspectives are so much fun!

Liked the depth added to Mab. And all that focus on Winter and Summer is now explained. What does it mean that the Summer Lady is the daughter of the Winter Queen? Less chance of a fight between Winter and Summer? A tightening of the defenses against the Outsiders?

And Mac. A Watcher, it seems. Who's out. Retired, and doesn't want back in. Interesting.

And Rashid. Wow. Seriously impressive shit there. What level of power does it take to be Gatekeeper? And not even the Merlin knows all about his job? Interesting.

I also found references to Harry as startborn to be particularly interesting in light of the starlight circle that surrounded Demonreach. The starlight circle was used to keep baddies at bay. We've been told before that Dresden has special powers with respect to the Outsiders. He has already summoned on of them at a time when he was barely a wizard. I'm getting very interested in this. I think its going to be the most significant plot point to emerge from this book.

[BLU-RAY]

There are references to Harry having been born to or conceived by Maggie at a celestially auspicious time (thus starborn) that would give him abilities against Outsiders. Unfortunately, there is not much more than that.

Good stuff. Blew through it in a few hours. Plot-wise, it actually feels like a bit of a re-hash; but many of the books have felt that way, and they're still fun pulp. But I loved the backstory and worldbuilding (drink!) that were prominent in this book.

The Outer Gates and Rashid were awesome; the revelations about the Adversary & the Outsiders, and He Who Walks Before were all pretty freaking cool as well. I would have liked to see additional interaction with the Grey council regarding 1) the revelations about Merlin and Demonreach and 2) the Outsiders and the role of Winter.

It's interesting, on the one hand, I felt like this book upped the ante too heavily and too quickly to sustain another, what, seven? eight? books before the capping trilogy? On the other hand, there are a lot of avenues that weren't explored at all that can be looked at in future books, such as:

-The Denarians, their relationship/stance vis-a-vis the Outsiders, and the resultant positions of the Church and the Knights of the Cross. Will we get an opposition to the Outsiders from the Denarians, a common purpose, or an Ishamael-esque nihilism (/gratuitous WoT reference)?

-The White Council/Grey Council and their positions; will Rashid gain a more influential position within the Grey Council?

-Time travel

-Lasciel (kind of tied up with the Denarians, I suppose)

-Demonreach (I guess we learned a lot in this book, but I want more, because that's the sort of nonsense I enjoy)

-Lara Raith and politics (don't really want to read this book, but it'll be a book, and maybe there'll be some interesting information forthcoming. Lara is a neat character, but the White Court in general are kinda dull)

-Even though this book was all about the Fae, would like more about Mab (and her mortal background), Lea, and I guess Molly's adaptation to Winter Lady

-Harry's origins (from the celestial perspective mentioned above)

-How the fuck did Merlin manage to imprison all of those, uh, things?

[Kouran]

Just a couple of thoughts.

-Since Merlin was the one who founded the council and set the laws of magic, one has to wonder why the 7th law is, "thou shalt not swim against the stream of time." When it is very obvious that Merlin did just that when he built the Well. Part of Bob's explanation was that Merlin laid the spells in 5 separate times at the same time. How the hell do you do that?

-While walking to the metro today I thought about Molly's fate and it seems pretty obvious from the beginning that Jim had the Winter Lady roll planned out. Look at how many times her hair is described as being shades of blue or what ever and he describes her as a Nordic babe etc.

-The turn around sign I think was probably Uriel, the Outsiders are obviously on the other team and had actively interfered a la Sith Cat. Just the sort of thing I could see Uriel doing just enough to carry the day and no more.

More stuff later boss inc

[Poobah]

With regards to the Denarians / the fallen in general, I can't help but wonder if they'll end up fighting for the 'good' team or rather the 'pro the continued existence of the universe' team. Since yeah, this universe is where they keep all their stuff.

I think I recall reading somewhere on the Jim Butcher forums that the titles for the final three books (the Big Apocalyptic Trilogy) are supposed to be "Hell's Bells", "Stars and Stones" and "Empty Night" - the three most common non-swear swears we hear thrown around in the Dresdenverse (though I feel like maybe there was a lot more 'fuck'-ing in Cold Days) but I'm not sure if that was fanwank or not. I certainly feel like they'd fit with a ton of connotations going on there too. I bring it up 'cause yeah "Hell's Bells" surely time for some Lucifer on Outsider action? Harry using soulfire to open the gates of hell itself for some backup?

One thing I didn't mention in my earlier post was the reference to Backup in Cold Days, did anyone else catch it?

Oh I'm pretty sure Harry was referred to as "Star born" in Ghost Story too, by He Who Walks Behind, when he gets given the perfect recollection of that night that he ran away and had HHWB sent after him.

[Kosciuszko]

With regards to the Denarians / the fallen in general, I can't help but wonder if they'll end up fighting for the 'good' team or rather the 'pro the continued existence of the universe' team. Since yeah, this universe is where they keep all their stuff.

I think I recall reading somewhere on the Jim Butcher forums that the titles for the final three books (the Big Apocalyptic Trilogy) are supposed to be "Hell's Bells", "Stars and Stones" and "Empty Night" - the three most common non-swear swears we hear thrown around in the Dresdenverse (though I feel like maybe there was a lot more 'fuck'-ing in Cold Days) but I'm not sure if that was fanwank or not. I certainly feel like they'd fit with a ton of connotations going on there too. I bring it up 'cause yeah "Hell's Bells" surely time for some Lucifer on Outsider action? Harry using soulfire to open the gates of hell itself for some backup?

One thing I didn't mention in my earlier post was the reference to Backup in Cold Days, did anyone else catch it?

Oh I'm pretty sure Harry was referred to as "Star born" in Ghost Story too, by He Who Walks Behind, when he gets given the perfect recollection of that night that he ran away and had HHWB sent after him.

Harry is called child of the stars by He Who Walks Behind (need new acronyms now that we have two Walkers?). Also, did you catch the use of empty night by Mother Summer? The way she phrased it suggests it's Armageddon. IIRC, she suggested it comes after wormwood (which was the jar that Dresden seems to have cracked and went with all the other plague jars). Wormwood is a biblical reference to a star that falls, infecting 1/3 of the world's drinking water, in Revelation. Seems like it's a thing here, too, and is a plague.