The Mad Genius Of Petyr Baelish

[TheOldGodsAndTheNew]

In A Feast for Crows it's established that Joffrey sent the assassin with the dagger pretty much 100%.

Thank you. Do we know if he did it with the urging of Cersei? If not, what made him do it? I know he's cruel and sadistic, but why target Bran?

[kwvapor]

Thank you. Do we know if he did it with the urging of Cersei? If not, what made him do it? I know he's cruel and sadistic, but why target Bran?

Joff heard his father say it'd be better if the kid died than survive and then said no one had the guts to do it though. And Joff was listening and wanted to prove to his father that he's a badass.

[Jolene Brown]

It's presented as sort of a whim in response to hearing a drunken Robert talk about how it would be more merciful to put Bran out of his misery. Tyrion figures out that Joffrey did it after Joffrey is given the valeryian steel sword and says he's "familiar with valyrian steel" and Jaime figures it out in the course of a conversation with Cercei, I think, which provides the Robert motivation angle. Or something fairly close to that. I personally did not find this development super believable, and I think it is probably a retcon of whatever Martin originally intended, which I would guess is that Jaime/Cercei arranged it, just like it seemed. But who knows. Actually, I think this came out in A Storm of Swords now that I think of it. Tyrion realized when the wedding gifts are given before joffrey's marriage to myrcella & I can't remember when the Jaime/Cercei conversation takes place.

[lewis92]

fs that was like trying to read a Dany chapter in adwd

[Viserys_The Transformed]

Do You Know Why people like LF ?

Its Because they can relate with his initial Failure in love with Catelyn. LF is similar to Krishna in the tale of Mahabharata.

Readers of ASoInF would love the Indian Epic too, I m Sure :)

My theory is that LF is a Faceless Man of Braavos. The roots of his family lies in Braavos.

Only Faceless men work so mysteriously and yet their methods are simple, direct and logical, and so .... untraceable :)

LF: An instrument of Him of Many Faces ..... ? What Say ?

[Viserys_The Transformed]

I've always seen Stannis as the victim of a world view that honour is strictly black and white and there is little room for debate. This is why even after Davos rescued him from the siege on his castle he rewarded him by cutting off his finger joints. Rather than coming across as a bit psychotic or irrational, he actually struck me as quite the opposite, until at least the start of his interaction with Melissandre. He just doesn't seem to be the type of man who entertains fools and flatterers and the other sycophants that populate Kings Landing. This strict sense code of honour might make him seem brutal and anti-social, but I always found him to be a lot like Ned. This is why he cannot understand Renly's aspirations to be King because pure and simple Renly is younger than him and not eligible.

As I said, his interaction with Melissandre is having some negative impacts on him, but we see that he is trying to fight her influence somewhat and stand up for what is right, as evidenced by his hiring of Davos as his hand. Stannis seems to truly believe in the rightness of his cause as Robert's legitimate successor. I don't think it's fair to say he doesn't feel empathy or sympathy for others at all.

He never came across as a wicked man out for his world domination or intent on fitting others into his world view. In fact, he has a grudging respect for Davos because Davos tells him outright many things that he doesn't want to hear. He seems to feel true sadness when his brother dies, and he takes pity on Robert's bastard son. Yes, he is not a likeable character, and he is now taking a hard line in order to ensure his kingship, but he is by no means comparable to LF.

I don't think that just because LF is stable, able to plan and implement his strategies successfully that it doesn't mean he isn't sociopathic or psyhopathic. And the argument that he is merely functioning and responding to a callous world is amusing given that he is the one responsible for creating much of this callous environment. There is something distasteful about the man despite his obvious brilliance as a political player, and I do think he has been clearly sociopathic in his behaviour throughout the series. He has no compunction when it comes to doing away with anyone that stands in his way. His talks with Sansa about pieces and players shows just how little he views people. It may strike others as something to be admired, but I just see him as a sign of the corruption that pervades the entire society.

Finally, I have to agree that I never saw Cersei as being psychotic either. Her behaviour is certainly despicable, but I don't see her as being inherently evil. I guess it's because there always seemed to be a method to Cersei's madness. She is callous, cruel and lacks empathy but she is also operating under the idea that she is the Queen Regent. LF's lack of a clear motive is what makes him in extremely dangerous.

What has LF done to make people in his world as they are ? People were cruel even without his interference.

LF was victim of society he lived in . He cannot hope to love a girl his heart desires only because he was born poorer.

I say : Bad , Callous, and Stupid World. Even today such world exists in closed Caste-based Societies where Honor Killing occurs in Our Indian Villages and Cities, too.... So LF is not that bad..

[Viserys_The Transformed]

Some say , while talking about how LF will end, that he will die or have no redemptive path. But he has not degenerated humanly.

And, Why to kill off such interesting character as LF ? He makes story interesting .

[Viserys_The Transformed]

Didn't read through all the subsequent posts, so sorry if this was discussed and I scanned over it, but this is my one gripe with the storyline , not charachter of LF, why does the Queen of Thornes trust him?

His motivations could be about anything, Catelyn, plain revenge, madness, just because there is nothing else to do in Westeros, whatever. I think that all makes sense whatever GRRM chooses, and it will prob be a combo of many things.

In the rest of the books, the political machinations are perfect, other readers have gripes, but I really don't, even with LF and his moves against "The Lords Declarant" lol

But why does the Queen of Thornes trust him, i can think of no evidence, and i can't even think of a crackpot theory. I would love to know what people suspect makes the QoT not worried that LF will use his knowledge of her actions to kill Joff as levarage against them. What could she know....

She did not have much Choice :D LF came on behalf of King and Tyrion or Iron Throne, so he had no part of pie to eat in .

QoT was concerned of her Margaery. LF helped, may be after QoT told him about her intentions.

That is kept secret by author. LF simply played along, and with honesty with which he advised Ned about what to do after Robert's death and saying "Not to trust me", ;)

QoT would not be aware of being a piece of LF. She was led to believe LF as her ally or instrument. That's How LF works :)

[Viserys_The Transformed]

The_Halfhand, ignore all the haters, your post was very interesting to read. After all, the whole purpose of these forums is to discuss the huge story that is ASOIAF.

You did a great job summing up Baelish's actions and schemes. I had never really thought too much about him, but when you think about it you are correct in that he certainly plays a huge role in the whole story; he just does so in a way that hardly anyone notices because he purposely stays under the radar and lets his agents carry out his schemes.

I certainly felt hatred towards him when I watched the show GoT and he betrayed Ned. But after having read all the novels, he is definitely an intriguing character who seems to be the puppet master behind many significant events.

I have a question: who specifically tried to kill Bran? I mean, besides the assassin? Did Baelish hire him? Did Lysa know about it? If so, it seems like the timing doesn't quite add up. Baelish could not have known that Bran would "fall" from a tower and be comatose and then crippled. So how did the whole Bran assasination figure into his plans?

Not everything in the story is cooked up by LF... :)

Bran's Assasination was all Joffy and Lannister thing,, Purely Lannisterean in style... Nothing to do with LF ..

[Lady Sansa Stark]

And when you know what a man wants you know who he is, and how to move him."

I think this will be his downfall. As soon as Sansa finds out what he wants..

[LandoMCFC]

Petyr Baelish is the hand moving all the pieces, there isnt a character that uses the phrase "Game of Thrones" near as much. However "minor" others think Petyr might be, this man will be one of the BIGGEST characters come the end of this series, mark my words!

[Fat Mac]

Petyr Baelish will sit the Iron Throne.

It is known.

[Tave]

Wow, thank you for that post, that's a fantastic character synopsis. I think the site administrators should take note and post it somewhere on the website itself, it would make a wonderful resource. And if you have some more time on your hands, I know I'd read one about Varys or Bran... :thumbsup:

Littlefinger is one of my favorite characters in the book, I hope he continues to dominate politically. I think his endgame is the Iron Throne itself, and I predict that he'll get very close (may even rule for a brief moment) but ultimately fail.

Y'all might be aware of this but the actor who plays Littlefinger has a small role in the new Batman film.

[The Lord Of Castamere]

Excellent recap, took me some time to read but it was definitely worth it.

His moves makes far more sense if you list them all in 1 post, although some things I believe are a bit far-fetched but the books are open to interpretation.

[RainStorm]

Great post man, i only read half of it but i'll finish it.

If you had done the same thing to any other character even my favorites i would have never read it but because baelish isn't just "any character" it's worthy reading.

[pitakon]

There are even posters blaming the RW to Littlefinger. People would blame LF. even their divorce are caused by LF

[The Fallen]

` Thanks for taking the time to write such a long post. With a half-hand to boot. This was a good job of explaining and clearing up what LF has been up to. And thank you for not subscribing to the silly theory that LF moved mountain and earth to bring Ned to King's Landing to have him killed because he wed LF's first love Catelyn.

However, I don't find Littlefinger to be a 'genius'. Yes, he's a master manipulator, but creating chaos just for chaos' sake smells of insecurity and low self-esteem. One last note, his plan of gaining the power of the North through Sansa won't work out. As soon as she's free of his grasp she will turn the tables on him. Sansa is actually the perfect person to do it because her hands are clean. The one thing you want when your hands are dirty is for your accomplice to also have his/her hands dirty as it will keep him/her from diming you out (selling you out). He can try and pin Joffrey's death on her, but I don't see that working.

[Fwaatcha]

Good post , worth the read

Still dont know Littlefingers motives yet though

I dont see him handing the North, Riverlands, and East over to Dany

[NichealBluth]

Just finished reading the OP. Amazing post, too many people underestimate Petyr Baelish. Answered a couple of my questions too. I'm glad there are others who pay more attention than I did.

I really hope Petyr rises to absolute power, with Sansa somehow causing his demise. What about warging? I know Sansa doesn't have a wolf anymore, but she is a Stark after all. And wouldn't it be ironic to see Petyr Baelish, puppet master, literally become a puppet? He for sure won't see that coming.

[Viserys_The Transformed]

Why not do it for other characters as well ?