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About Syrio... (Yep, Syrio, AGAIN)


iheartseverus

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Yesterday, I posted this in the 'Celebrating the Little Touches' thread:

When Syrio was fighting the guards and his wooden sword got broken off, we got a (very) brief close-up shot of the broken end showing that there was a steel rod running through the center of the wooden sword (EXACTLY like in the book) and that the jagged end of the steel rod was sticking out just slightly further than the wood around it.

LOL, anybody have any memory of Trant seen limping after his encounter with Syrio? sigh... a girl has faith...

Okay, that was just a little touch that I noticed in passing. BUT, this morning I found this at the TWoP site. One of the Unsullied (meaning people who haven't read the books, but are closely following the HBO series) was questioning why, during the fight with the guards, Syrio didn't just drop his broken wooden sword and pick up a real sword from one of the guards lying on the floor. Here is the response by another of the Unsullied:

According to the actor in an interview, he initially thought to throw down the broken sword - but the choreographer said no. He said "hold on to the hilt, because Syrio is going to do something with it." I like that sentiment though it didn't seem he did a lot.

Hold on to the hilt, because Syrio is going to do something with it ? ?

Was the actor just making that up? Was the choreographer? I don't think so. And, despite all our years of trying to put 'the Syrio question' to rest once and for all, I think this possibility is not so far-fetched. If, IF Syrio indeed used that little jagged steel rod protruding from the broken edge of the sword to somehow wound Trant just long enough to make his escape, would Trant be eager to go back and report the whole true story to Cersei about what really went down? I mean, 'Well, yes, there were six of us, armored and armed to the teeth, but somehow, the little girl got away anyway. And oh, the little guy with the little toy broken wooden sword? Well, he jabbed me with a little steel rod, and he got away, too.' Not likely!

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Interesting; I'm not sure if the choreographer would have that kind of information, though. And there isn't much shown in the fighting after the sword is cut, so I think they were just trying to keep to the book exactly. Mr. Martin may have requested particular attention in this scene, either because he was aware of the fan debate or because he wanted to keep Syrio's survival a possibility.

I would like Syrio to have made it out alive, but I'm not really sure there's a place in the series for him.

So I kind of like it being open ended; we never see Syrio again and can decide for ourselves if the First Sword of Braavos lived to fight another day.

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Maybe he does know, because they have already filmed what will be shown in a future season.

Well, Syrio hasn't come back in any of the books yet. He could appear (especially with Arya in Braavos), but it would be many years/seasons from now before it appeared on HBO, so they wouldn't have filmed anything like that.

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Interesting; I'm not sure if the choreographer would have that kind of information, though.

Agree. The choreographer wouldn't be told what Syrio was going to do with it, but would need to be told that during the sequence, Syrio is not to drop the broken sword, but that he must hold onto it at the end. And why, I ask myself, did we get that brief close-up shot of the metal rod protruding from the broken end of the sword? Ah, Syrio, questions, questions, just so...

The training swords have a soft lead core in the books.

Good. Hopefully, Trant's now got lead-poisoning.

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I suspect the choreographer said that because scampering around to pick up a sword is far less bad-ass than just standing there, being all "oh, you just broke my sword, no worries, the First Sword of Bravos will now be kicking your ass with a chopstick."

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I suspect the choreographer said that because scampering around to pick up a sword is far less bad-ass than just standing there, being all "oh, you just broke my sword, no worries, the First Sword of Bravos will now be kicking your ass with a chopstick."

LOL. But, according to the TWoP post at least, the choreographer said 'because Syrio is going to do something with it,' when referring to the broken wooden sword.

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There are so many far-fetched theories that we have. And this is by far my favorite.

GRRM knows what his fans argue about. Syrio was left open ended on purpose. I completely believe that. But if that's to hint of his return or just to keep the debate open I don't know.

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When we first see the sword directly after splintering, it looks like the "core" is wooden. When the splintered sword is shown again, the core looks darker than the surrounding wood, more like metal.

To drop the broken wooden sword and pick up a metal one might take too much time and provide too much of a diversion Trant could take advantage of. Besides, it might not be suitable for Syrio's fencing style. Too heavy, robs him of his only advantage, speed. When both do the "hack&slash", Trant is at an advantage because of his armour. So it's perfectly reasonable of Syrio to "do something with the hilt". However, in the end, we never know. Either Martin really wants to surprise us with a Syrio comeback - or he just saw the book fans speculating about Syrio surviving and decided to mess with their heads.

My theory: Syrio drops the useless hilt, pulls a red herring from under his coat, slaps it into Trant's face and while Trant still stands there bewildered and stinking, he flees. On his way out, he passes through the stables where he trips on the dead body of some random stableboy whose water has leaked out, hits the pavement hard and suffers a fatal concussion or breaks his neck. His body is then taken away by the Silent Sisters (or taken to them by some stablehands) as "just another victim of the recent unrests".

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Another thing possibly worth mentioning is that this series really has indulged in showing gore and nudity, even adding in bits that aren't found in the books such as Gared's beheading by Others, Jory's eye socket and Tyrion's little orgy.

I just thought that if that truly was the end of Syrio's character they would've shown it in all its bloody glory - though that probably would've driven die-hard fans completely mental hah.

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LOL. But, according to the TWoP post at least, the choreographer said 'because Syrio is going to do something with it,' when referring to the broken wooden sword.

Hmm, I'm not sure how much I'd read into that. It sounds more like general choreography than any specific knowledge, if you ask me. Like how in the interview with the actor who played Syrio he said he had originally played Syrio as more athletic jumping and dodging and so on, and then the choreographer said, no, you're supposed to be this master swordsman who is always in control--you barely have to move at all to dodge a blow because you knew exactly where it was coming from. The choreographer seems to have wanted to present Syrio as always in control, and having a plan for what to do with his broken sword fits that.

But, far be it for me to rain on the Syrio Lives! parade. Perhaps he drew a dagger with his free hand and used the broken sword to parry. Perhaps he killed Trant and then used his FM ability to impersonate him. Perhaps he was killed but came back on the third day like Beric (or you know who). We'll never know. Keep the faith alive! :fencing:

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I don't think Syrio will show up in the story again. I don't think he's a faceless man, but I still think he might have escaped.

I think it was supposed to be left open ended. If Syrio doesn't show up again in the story then, it kind of doesn't matter if he lived or died in there. He gave Arya valuable lessons, allowed her time to escape, and his part in the story is over. Doesn't mean he's dead.

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Another thing possibly worth mentioning is that this series really has indulged in showing gore and nudity, even adding in bits that aren't found in the books such as Gared's beheading by Others, Jory's eye socket and Tyrion's little orgy.

I just thought that if that truly was the end of Syrio's character they would've shown it in all its bloody glory - though that probably would've driven die-hard fans completely mental hah.

Maybe, but in all other situations we also know more or less with certainty that the people in question actually did die...or in the case of the orgy, we aren't in any doubt that Tyrion likes patronizing sex workers. ;)

No way of making a call here, except to further note that GRRM actually penned this episode. Presumably, he made the call to make (or rather, keep) Syrio's death ambiguous. He has also declined to ever authoritatively state that Syrio is dead anywhere. Instead he evades the question with non-responses along the lines of, "He's not immortal." (No one argued that, George.) And while at the end of the day he may well just be playing a game or leaving this out there as a red herring, he can't have not noticed that he left that little thread unresolved. So it is at a minimum intended to be a nagging question for the reader to ponder.

But contra this: it was established (or at least stated) in the books that Septa Mordane was killed...but GRRM actually chose to make that ambiguous on TV. We did get the general statement by Varys that the entire Stark household had been killed. Presumably that includes Syrio, so maybe he has subtly settled the question for us here.

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Another thing possibly worth mentioning is that this series really has indulged in showing gore and nudity, even adding in bits that aren't found in the books such as Gared's beheading by Others, Jory's eye socket and Tyrion's little orgy.

I just thought that if that truly was the end of Syrio's character they would've shown it in all its bloody glory - though that probably would've driven die-hard fans completely mental hah.

Yeah, Syrio's end was remarkably non-bloody, even compared to the same scene in the books, where he drives his sword into one of the guards' eye. A good decision, IMO--too much gore there would have overshadowed Drogo's kill. You want the show to build to that horrific scene, not just be a series of bloody vignettes.

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Well, Syrio hasn't come back in any of the books yet. He could appear (especially with Arya in Braavos), but it would be many years/seasons from now before it appeared on HBO, so they wouldn't have filmed anything like that.

He hasn't come back in any of the books, but that doesn't mean there isn't a plan to bring him back, or at least tell what his fate was. If GRRM already knows what Syrio's fate is, why not just film it while you have the chance, even if it won't be used for several years?

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Maybe, but in all other situations we also know more or less with certainty that the people in question actually did die...or in the case of the orgy, we aren't in any doubt that Tyrion likes patronizing sex workers. ;)

No way of making a call here, except to further note that GRRM actually penned this episode. Presumably, he made the call to make (or rather, keep) Syrio's death ambiguous. He has also declined to ever authoritatively state that Syrio is dead anywhere. Instead he evades the question with non-responses along the lines of, "He's not immortal." (No one argued that, George.) And while at the end of the day he may well just be playing a game or leaving this out there as a red herring, he can't have not noticed that he left that little thread unresolved. So it is at a minimum intended to be a nagging question for the reader to ponder.

But contra this: it was established (or at least stated) in the books that Septa Mordane was killed...but GRRM actually chose to make that ambiguous on TV. We did get the general statement by Varys that the entire Stark household had been killed. Presumably that includes Syrio, so maybe he has subtly settled the question for us here.

True, I did read somewhere that GRRM wrote this one so no doubt everything in the episode was completely intentional.

As for the Varys statement, surely the first sword of Bravos isn't counted as part of the Stark household!

Anyway, if he did live through his duel with Trant he either kicked him in the balls and made a run for it or maybe he was thrown in a cell and then freed by Varys since he knows the dungeons? Who knows. I thought it slightly peculiar that both Syrio and Varys utter the words "Not today". Possibly significant since GRRM wrote this one, as you said.

I dunno, he was a likeable character but i'm certainly not gonna lose any sleep over the next 5 years waiting for clarification of his fate :D

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If GRRM already knows what Syrio's fate is, why not just film it while you have the chance, even if it won't be used for several years?

That assumes both that it occurred in that place and time (or at least close to it for purposes of filming a tv show) and that he has the intent of actually showing it someday somewhere. Which in the books means Syrio will either have to be a retroactive POV character in the books (which is very unlikely if he's dead and we're long past that part chronologically) or another POV character will have to witness his death or at least see his corpse and think to recount this years after the fact in such a way as to allow him to be identified to us. Possible, but unlikely IMO.

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. I thought it slightly peculiar that both Syrio and Varys utter the words "Not today". Possibly significant since GRRM wrote this one, as you said.

I think that's a Braavos thing--it's what one says to the God of Death. Not today.

I dunno, he was a likeable character but i'm certainly not gonna lose any sleep over the next 5 years waiting for clarification of his fate :D

I am! :stunned:

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I thought Syrio was doomed when we left him in the books, but the scene in the TV show was much more ambiguous. He actually looked to be winning. Interesting...

As for all the Stark household being reported killed, perhaps a mere "dancing master" was not important enough to mention. Not to mention, it would be embarrassing to admit how many Lannister guards were defeated by such a person.

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