About Syrio... (Yep, Syrio, AGAIN)

[SerFelixCulpa]

True, I did read somewhere that GRRM wrote this one so no doubt everything in the episode was completely intentional.

As for the Varys statement, surely the first sword of Bravos isn't counted as part of the Stark household!

Anyway, if he did live through his duel with Trant he either kicked him in the balls and made a run for it or maybe he was thrown in a cell and then freed by Varys since he knows the dungeons? Who knows. I thought it slightly peculiar that both Syrio and Varys utter the words "Not today". Possibly significant since GRRM wrote this one, as you said.

I dunno, he was a likeable character but i'm certainly not gonna lose any sleep over the next 5 years waiting for clarification of his fate :D

Very good points. In the books, it was stated that Syrio had in fact taken service with House Stark at the time of the palace coup. So I think he was definitely a member of the household at that point...whether or not everyone else would have thought of him that way is another question, but the men who came for Arya definitely knew who he was and that he was training her. Still an open question though.

I did notice the use of "not today" by both Syrio and Varys, but had thought it just meant to be a sort of literary parallel. But maybe there is a connection. I always thought it a bit odd that this First Sword of Braavos (presumably, a swordsman of some ability and renown at least in his homeland) happened to be in King's Landing and available to spend his time teaching a lord's little girl Braavosi swordplay and eventually even take service with the Starks. There's never really much told to us (if I remember correctly) about where Ned found him or how. Maybe Varys was at work in some of this...

[valacirca]

Does Syrio reappear again anywhere in the series?

Or does anyone think he will again before the series is over?

[iheartseverus]

Does Syrio reappear again anywhere in the series?

Or does anyone think he will again before the series is over?

No, he does not. At least, not yet. This discussion/argument has been going on for years now--is Syrio alive or is he dead? I think a majority of fans think he is in fact dead, and they tend to get irritated at those of us who keep up hope that he's still alive and will re-appear in time. But hey, to each his (or her) own, right? I choose to hope/wish/believe he's alive, so, that's what I'm going to do!

:fencing:

[valacirca]

Based on what I've read, I really think he's alive.

[Xenophon]

I always thought it a bit odd that this First Sword of Braavos (presumably, a swordsman of some ability and renown at least in his homeland) happened to be in King's Landing and available to spend his time teaching a lord's little girl Braavosi swordplay and eventually even take service with the Starks. There's never really much told to us (if I remember correctly) about where Ned found him or how. Maybe Varys was at work in some of this...

Yeah, IIRC, it's never specified. He's clearly no longer First Sword, whatever that means ("Nine years Syrio Forel was first sword to the Sealord of Braavos, he knows these things"). So, I always assumed he lost his job at some point and went into exile looking for work in Westeros. Perhaps his former master lost out in some Bravosi political struggle, or perhaps he was the Bravosi equivalent of Barristan Selmy, fired to make room for someone new. In any event, it seems likely that Varys knew about him and found him for Ned.

As for the expression "Not Today" I figure it's a common saying in the Free Cities, where the religion of the FM is more prominent.

[iheartseverus]

Based on what I've read, I really think he's alive.

Yay! Join the ranks of us True Believers!

:cheers:

[Snowy89]

Maybe, but in all other situations we also know more or less with certainty that the people in question actually did die...or in the case of the orgy, we aren't in any doubt that Tyrion likes patronizing sex workers. ;)

No way of making a call here, except to further note that GRRM actually penned this episode. Presumably, he made the call to make (or rather, keep) Syrio's death ambiguous. He has also declined to ever authoritatively state that Syrio is dead anywhere. Instead he evades the question with non-responses along the lines of, "He's not immortal." (No one argued that, George.) And while at the end of the day he may well just be playing a game or leaving this out there as a red herring, he can't have not noticed that he left that little thread unresolved. So it is at a minimum intended to be a nagging question for the reader to ponder.

But contra this: it was established (or at least stated) in the books that Septa Mordane was killed...but GRRM actually chose to make that ambiguous on TV. We did get the general statement by Varys that the entire Stark household had been killed. Presumably that includes Syrio, so maybe he has subtly settled the question for us here.

Well we might expect to see her head on a pike next epoisode when

Ned gets killed

[DireLlama]

Mr. Martin may have requested particular attention in this scene, either because he was aware of the fan debate or because he wanted to keep Syrio's survival a possibility.

He didn't really need to request much - he wrote the episode! :D

[SerFelixCulpa]

Well we might expect to see her head on a pike next epoisode when

Ned gets killed

Can't remember off the top of my head...was that how they confirmed Septa Mordane's death in the book?

[SerFelixCulpa]

Yeah, IIRC, it's never specified. He's clearly no longer First Sword, whatever that means ("Nine years Syrio Forel was first sword to the Sealord of Braavos, he knows these things"). So, I always assumed he lost his job at some point and went into exile looking for work in Westeros. Perhaps his former master lost out in some Bravosi political struggle, or perhaps he was the Bravosi equivalent of Barristan Selmy, fired to make room for someone new. In any event, it seems likely that Varys knew about him and found him for Ned.

As for the expression "Not Today" I figure it's a common saying in the Free Cities, where the religion of the FM is more prominent.

It's certainly never established that Ned knows a lot about Braavos. Though in the book I believe Ned reaction upon first seeing Needle was to say it was a Bravo's sword. So I suppose we can assume at least a passing knowledge of Braavosi-style fighting on his part. Still, Ned never struck me as being really up to speed on culture or happenings across the Narrow Sea...or even inside the Red Keep. ;)

[iheartseverus]

Can't remember off the top of my head...was that how they confirmed Septa Mordane's death in the book?

IIRC, when Joff forces Sansa to look at her father's head on a spike, she sees the Septa's there, as well. Nice guy, Joff. Outstanding young man, there.

[Asarlai]

He didn't really need to request much - he wrote the episode! :D

I meant requested the choreography/imagery to fairly exact specifications. In the script. That he wrote.

[gotthammer]

Just wondering: is the actor who played Syrio into swordplay, or, like the others, just taught for the series?

In any case, I hope that Syrio's still alive (loved him in the books and in the show :D )

[iheartseverus]

Just wondering: is the actor who played Syrio into swordplay, or, like the others, just taught for the series?

In any case, I hope that Syrio's still alive (loved him in the books and in the show :D )

From George's (not a) blog:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/161789.html

[ferthepoet]

I think its amazing this thread got to this point without anyone mentioning the S=J theory

[Asarlai]

I think its amazing this thread got to this point without anyone mentioning the S=J theory

But then who's Jon's mother?

JOKE!

[Tywin's bastard]

Can't remember off the top of my head...was that how they confirmed Septa Mordane's death in the book?

I can't mention the exact passages but I do believe it's mentioned that she's been killed earlier than when Sansa actually sees her head.

[Regina]

After watching this episode, I am forced to conclude that Syrio=Varys=Faceless Man. ;)

In all seriousness, however, I do sincerely hope Syrio lived. As long as GRRM leaves the possiblity open, I'm a happy fangirl.

:fencing:

[ferthepoet]

Regarding the "Whole Stark Household" being killed thing, wasn't Jeyne Poole part of the Stark Household in the books and she was spared.

[SerFelixCulpa]

After watching this episode, I am forced to conclude that Syrio=Varys=Faceless Man. ;)

In all seriousness, however, I do sincerely hope Syrio lived. As long as GRRM leaves the possiblity open, I'm a happy fangirl.

:fencing:

If Syrio really was First Sword for years and so forth, it seems less likely (though by no means impossible) that he is a Faceless Man. It seems as if it would be difficult to maintain that public identity for years and years while also running around as a Faceless Man, and it seems at least for the years he was First Sword he would have had to stay in or very close to Braavos. There aren't red-eye flights all over that world after all.

Still, perhaps the "original" Syrio could have been killed and replaced with a Faceless Man, or maybe he really did maintain Syrio as a cover identity. Another thing that just occurred to me: the FAQ at the Citadel states that there are (unconfirmed) reports that GRRM "does not understand" why people continually ask him if Syrio is still alive and that he "point out that Syrio is not immortal." Those are the quotes from the FAQ, not GRRM himself, so we don't know precisely what GRRm would have said to these unconfirmed reporters...but it seems to me that saying Syrio is "not immortal" is pretty logically equivalent to saying "Valar morghulis," eh?