About Syrio... (Yep, Syrio, AGAIN)

[SerFelixCulpa]

Regarding the "Whole Stark Household" being killed thing, wasn't Jeyne Poole part of the Stark Household in the books and she was spared.

I don't know that it's stated the "whole" household was killed in the books (I could be wrong), that was stated in the show though.

[Regina]

If Syrio really was First Sword for years and so forth, it seems less likely (though by no means impossible) that he is a Faceless Man. It seems as if it would be difficult to maintain that public identity for years and years while also running around as a Faceless Man, and it seems at least for the years he was First Sword he would have had to stay in or very close to Braavos. There aren't red-eye flights all over that world after all.

Still, perhaps the "original" Syrio could have been killed and replaced with a Faceless Man, or maybe he really did maintain Syrio as a cover identity. Another thing that just occurred to me: the FAQ at the Citadel states that there are (unconfirmed) reports that GRRM "does not understand" why people continually ask him if Syrio is still alive and that he "point out that Syrio is not immortal." Those are the quotes from the FAQ, not GRRM himself, so we don't know precisely what GRRm would have said to these unconfirmed reporters...but it seems to me that saying Syrio is "not immortal" is pretty logically equivalent to saying "Valar morghulis," eh?

I was just kidding around with the S=V theory, as I'm somewhat surprised someone didn't leap on the fact that both said "not today" and use it as the basis for another crackpot theory.

[Boots]

Syrio lives on in the hearts and minds of all of us!

But seriously I did find it quite interesting they left his fate up in the air. I do think GRRM may have been giving the fans something to play with, but it'll be fun to imagine Syrio's Jaqen/Back in Braavos/Off doing other things. Maybe "Syrio" is just a name the first sword of Braavos takes!?!?!?!?! Anyway I do hope they show a shot of Trant bedridden next episode, that'd be quite funny.

[SerFelixCulpa]

I was just kidding around with the S=V theory, as I'm somewhat surprised someone didn't leap on the fact that both said "not today" and use it as the basis for another crackpot theory.

Thought you might have been kidding, but I do like exploring the logical and plot consequences of proposed theories. Can be useful even when you think the theory itself is wrong. ;)

[Greywolf2375]

Syrio lives on in the hearts and minds of all of us!

But seriously I did find it quite interesting they left his fate up in the air. I do think GRRM may have been giving the fans something to play with, but it'll be fun to imagine Syrio's Jaqen/Back in Braavos/Off doing other things. Maybe "Syrio" is just a name the first sword of Braavos takes!?!?!?!?! Anyway I do hope they show a shot of Trant bedridden next episode, that'd be quite funny.

One of the things that will be interesting to see is how they deal with him - not that we need the specific name, but the KG have been rather namelesss/faceless to us to this point. In a way they almost have to avoid having any specific scene with him like that because it would tend to beg the "what happened" questions to him.

[iheartseverus]

there are (unconfirmed) reports that GRRM "does not understand" why people continually ask him if Syrio is still alive and that he "point out that Syrio is not immortal."

Well, but that's pretty ambiguous, no? I mean, I'm not immortal (alas), but I'm still alive, haven't been valar morghulis-ed yet. :P

[SerFelixCulpa]

Well, but that's pretty ambiguous, no? I mean, I'm not immortal (alas), but I'm still alive, haven't been valar morghulis-ed yet. :P

Oh, it's patently ambiguous. And if there's one thing that has often been true about characters who are "ambiguously" dead...it's that there's a surprisingly high chance of them not actually being dead. ;)

[Regina]

Thought you might have been kidding, but I do like exploring the logical and plot consequences of proposed theories. ;)

Whew, that's a relief. Back when I posted more on the book forums, I was somewhat known for a couple of very crackpot theories. I was a bit worried that I had finally gone too far, and was being taken seriously the one time I was in jest!

[SerFelixCulpa]

Whew, that's a relief. Back when I posted more on the book forums, I was somewhat known for a couple of very crackpot theories. I was a bit worried that I had finally gone too far, and was being taken seriously the one time I was in jest!

No worries. :)

...now, let's discuss my theory that Hot Pie, Patchface, and Mormont's Raven are the three heads of the dragon. :P

[Asarlai]

If Syrio really was First Sword for years and so forth, it seems less likely (though by no means impossible) that he is a Faceless Man. It seems as if it would be difficult to maintain that public identity for years and years while also running around as a Faceless Man, and it seems at least for the years he was First Sword he would have had to stay in or very close to Braavos. There aren't red-eye flights all over that world after all.

Well, there seem to be Faceless Men who work exclusively in Braavos (Arya sees them come by the Temple with slightly different faces all the time).

But the Kindly Old Man seems to speak disdainfully about the bravos strutting around choosing who dies, and Syrio seems to have too conspicuous a background for a Faceless Man.

I like Syrio how he is.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Well, there seem to be Faceless Men who work exclusively in Braavos (Arya sees them come by the Temple with slightly different faces all the time).

But the Kindly Old Man seems to speak disdainfully about the bravos strutting around choosing who dies, and Syrio seems to have too conspicuous a background for a Faceless Man.

I like Syrio how he is.

That doesn't tell us much about how many Faceless Men are actually working in Braavos, or even how many different ones Arya might be seeing or whether they are actually working in Braavos. She could be seeing the same one or two going back and forth a whole lot of times with minor modifications, or conversely, many many different ones altered to look vaguely similar going by only once. It just seems to me that there wouldn't be that much use for that many high-end assassinations in Braavos: hiring the Faceless Men is supposed to be highly expensive.

But yeah, I doubt Syrio was a Faceless Man any which way. I go 80 percent for / 20 percent against on the odds as far as Syrio actually being alive. GRRM is just too apt to imply someone is dead (even have people state they are dead) only to have it turn around and not be true.

[iheartseverus]

But yeah, I doubt Syrio was a Faceless Man any which way. I go 80 percent for / 20 percent against on the odds as far as Syrio actually being alive. GRRM is just too apt to imply someone is dead (even have people state they are dead) only to have it turn around and not be true.

And, to echo a thought from one of the 'Unsullied' over at TWoP site, I won't believe he's dead til I actually see his dead body, and given what's going on at the Wall, maybe not even then!'

:laugh:

[iheartseverus]

Syrio seems to have too conspicuous a background for a Faceless Man.

I like Syrio how he is.

Ditto. Me, too, love Syrio just how he is. And love Jaqen H'ghar exactly as he is. It's okay to be in love with two men at the same time. RIght? And, of course, then there's Jaime the Redeemed, that'd be number three. Oh, and the Red Viper, so Oberyn Martell makes four... Ahem, enough, I've got TMI going on here.

[Hyper]

Syrio is dead. The episode makes it even clearer than it is in the books.

GET. OVER. IT. :bang:

[Hyper]

Darn multipost.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Syrio is dead. The episode makes it even clearer than it is in the books.

GET. OVER. IT. :bang:

How exactly does it do that?

[iheartseverus]

Syrio is dead. The episode makes it even clearer than it is in the books.

GET. OVER. IT. :bang:

LOL, your username soooo suits you, my friend. :kiss:

[Xenophon]

Ditto. Me, too, love Syrio just how he is. And love Jaqen H'ghar exactly as he is. It's okay to be in love with two men at the same time. RIght? And, of course, then there's Jaime the Redeemed, that'd be number three. Oh, and the Red Viper, so Oberyn Martell makes four... Ahem, enough, I've got TMI going on here.

Don't worry, they're all just a single, very busy, Faceless Man.

[iheartseverus]

Okay, this, today, from the 'Great Little Moments' thread, by Daedalus:

Posted Today, 01:37 PM

being a big syrio fan I was paying particular attention during his scene, and there might be a hint towards hist fate (I don't know if this has been noted elsewhere in discussion of this episode):

after we cut away behind meryn trants white cloak we have arya running up the stairs, and before the noise from further up starts we hear a metal sound and she turns her head back at that exact moment. I had to listen to it with headphones but im pretty convinced that sound was meant to come specifically from the "dancing" room she just left instead from the slaughter above. Honestly, it sounds like a metal sword falling to the floor. This might very well be just because I really want some indication that Syrio lives, but that would sort of indicate that he disarmed Trant wouldn't it? If Syrio was cut down there wouldn't be a metal sound, since he wasn't wearing any himself. Or at the least it be an indication that he picked up a sword and fought back.

If so, that would be a fantastic and extremely subtle moment!

(Me, again) Anybody got earphones?

[Hyper]

Re: The episode making it clearer that Syrio is dead

How exactly does it do that?

1. The Kingsguard knight is later seen unharmed at the dismissal of Ser Barristan

2. When Syrio asks Arya what we say to death, Arya responds "Not today". Note, Syrio does NOT says it. He knows his time is up. (This seemed like a small but significant change from the book dialog, but perhaps I misremember)

It does not prove anything. BUT it does give increasing circumstantial evidence to support it.