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[Book Spoilers] EP109 Discussion


Ran

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You too, huh? Such a beautiful choice on D&D's part, turning the smaller scale of the scene into something more personal. Ned's last two acts in life are his attempts to save Sansa and Arya, respectively.

yup but geeze that confession was so fucking hard to watch.

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Well, I have to admit, this is the first episode I've felt conflicted about. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I think it's good from a television standpoint, but this was bound to happen. My expectations got the better of me; these last two episodes are just way too jam-packed to satisfy every desire. They did a good job.

Shae's accent. Her whole character, in fact, was far different. I guess the 'earthy, home-grown, corn-fed whore' schtick was given over to Roz. Shae is some strange foreigner with a mysterious past, not at all the tough-as-nails, bawdy firebrand we know from the books. I really can't see Tyrion being as fiercely attracted to her as the book version of Shae, but whatever.

Tyrion's confession. The whole drinking game was a bit of a stretch, despite a few fine comedic moments, and while I thought it was an OK place for him to divulge, they fucked it up. The fact that Tywin made Tyrion take Tysha once the guards were through, and pay her a gold "because a Lannister is worth more", is an integral part. It's still monstrous and certainly depressing, but the book version is far more telling of Tywin's character. Hopefully he was just holding that little nugget back.

Walder Frey was well-cast -- I actually enjoyed him and the scene, but he never made a mention of Tywin Lannister's pride and how it irked him. I thought that bit of motivation was very important. Still, he satisfied.

No battle scenes. I can understand this, due to budgetary reasons, but it was still disappointing. I was actually hoping to see the battles, or at least part of them -- seeing Gregor Clegane laying about him, ordering Tyrion around (see: my signature), was something I've been looking forward to. That's just a personal quibble and doesn't really matter. The Whispering Wood, I've always thought, would have been easy to do if they stayed truthful: a night-time battle where you heard more than you saw. But I digress.

No mention of Roose Bolton; they changed Robb's strategy entirely, but it still worked where it needed to; I guess it doesn't matter in the long run.

One thing I did very much enjoy was Maester Aemon's confession to Jon. It's one of my favorite scenes in the first book and I'm glad they kept it intact. The Dothraki stuff was decent, and played out as I'd expected.

In conclusion: the final scene. It was grand. I didn't much like that Ned saw Arya, but when he yelled "Baelor!" to Yoren I changed my opinion. It wasn't a bad change. His death scene happened faster than I expected, but the rushed, confused and chaotic feel added to it. Can't wait to see my non-reader friends's reactions.

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They did the ending fantastically. I wish they put more info of the Whispering Wood battle, however.

+1 for annoyance about the "King in the North" preview.

Wow, there are a lot of people on this thread.

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I thought I was desensitized to that scene with the amount of times I've read the books, but that was awful. I feel devastated right now. I don't think I'll be able to actually watch a certain scene in Season 3

i know its gonna be so much worse considering how good a certain actor is doing. im gonna not gonna be able to watch that scent.

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Having Ned see (and consequently save) Arya just shattered me. And Sean Bean's final moments were amazingly acted. Not to mention both girls played their roles to a T. Heartbreaking. Damn.

Yes to all of this.

I'm gonna go for a walk now. I need some air.

I know the feeling.

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Larry williams is not happy right now " they killed my niggah Ned! I don't play that shit fuck that shit man!"

I honestly am going to stay up just to see his reactions tonight, he is the everyman who has no idea what's coming and I love that shit.

Quick thoughts

1. What's going on with Shae? That's Shae? Okay... if you say so, she's seems to be a hundred times smarter than book Shae that's for sure.

2. Don't you talk bad about my Moma! Seriously this is Shae? Whaa?

3. This is the first episode I gave a ten, there was some quibble points with them shortening Aemon's speech about being tested (He was tested twice before in the show he's tested only once) and the only real negative is again... that's Shae? But I'll get beyond that.

4. Shame we missed the mountain and them lining up but again I'm guess this is part budget constraints and part 10 episode limit, they could have done sooo much more with two more episodes.

I seriously hope the Battle of the Blackwater at least gets a good chunk of the budget and Tyrion gets some more time in the armor.

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Before all the human lovers go bonkers, I understand that Sophie Turner will be adopting Sean Bean...

Bravo, sir.

I knew what was coming, and that ending STILL was hard to watch. They nailed that scene, and it more than made up for my minor disappointment in not getting to see the Whispering Wood--I wanted a chance to see badass Jaime in action before he...well, you know.

That scene with Jon and Aemon was really good too. I wasn't sure about the casting of Jon at the beginning of the season, but he's grown on me over time, and he was absolutely perfect here.

Shae is not really as I pictured her, but it's not a major deal in the grand scheme of things. I'm happy with all of the actors they got for the really important roles, so a relatively minor character like Shae not "doing it" for me isn't that big a problem.

I will be really curious to see how many people watch Episode 10. Will Ned's death turn off non-readers, or will they keep watching to see what happens next?

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They did the ending fantastically. I wish they put more info of the Whispering Wood battle, however.

+1 for annoyance about the "King in the North" preview.

Wow, there are a lot of people on this thread.

I don't see them showing the "KitN" scene as a huge spoiler - it is all ready known that there is contention for who really should be sitting on the throne and who wants to be on the throne. IF they had shown or even hinted at a dragons screach, THAT would have been too much of a spoiler.

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OMG, OMG. Sean Bean nailed it! Awesome work on his part. I agree with those who said even though they knew it was coming it was so hard to watch and gave me chills. Robb is constantly good, as is Arya, and Sansa was awesome in this episode. Shae, to me is not what I pictured, but her stature and physique are right. Bronn is excellent. Quibble: Tyrion getting trampled by the hill tribes as they race toward battle. Is that supposed to imply that all he did in the battle of the Green Fork was get hit in the head by his own man and remain out cold for the whole fight? That is not cool.I understand budgetary issues but I feel it's important that it is shown Tyrion is not a coward fights alongside his men. Reactions at Baelor's were all spot on, I didn't see Littlefinger at the pertinent moment, did anyone notice if he inched closer to Joff? What an episode!

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I thought the final scene was great. Very well-handled.

Did Cersei really want Joff to let Ned take the black? In this scene it looks that way, and I"m not positive from the text what her true intentions were.

Yes, she reacts the same in the book, and she later has a conversation with someone (I think Tyrion, but it could also have been Tywin or Jaime...someone she wouldn't have lied to about it) and says Joff was told to have him take the black.

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Strong episode from our acting ensemble. Aemon was that dude in the backstory convo with Lord Snow.

Only beef is the Robb/Jamie scene....I feel like that would be confusing as hell for non readers as they only briefly mentioned Jamie skirmishing around and the audience was not privy to the "plan" of capturing the Kingslayer. I'm not one to blindly say its a great show or nitpick small details but this was actually one scene where I think they made it more confusing than necessary.

durka durka.

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Wow that was amazing...

We got so much, but I am alittle concerned about non-readers understanding the two fight scenes. Well the two non-fight scenes. I wish Robb had said at the end "on to Riverrun!" so that people would know the battle they just fought wasn't really at Riverrun yet...

And I kinda hate Shae. Is she supposed to be foreign? I never got that impression...

A+ on the Tysa story

A+ on Robb being a badass with a heart. It's just going to make the red wedding hurt more....

I was hoping for more with Drogo .. my non-reader husband didn't even know why he was sick.

I miss Bran :( I think next episode will start with his dream of finding Ned in the crypt. Maybe we'll actually get to hear what ghost Ned says...

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What an amazing episode.

1) Changing the Tyrion battle to where he gets knocked out early on and stepped on a bunch of times was totally the right move. I bet GRRM himself wanted that one done. Watching Tyrion become a super hero against a bunch of knights just comes off as silly in the books.

2) Bronn is hilarious! Even funnier than Tyrion. And Shae seems good -- although this whole 'mysterious woman' thing she is giving out seems unnecessary.

3) Bronn has been North of the Wall? Wait, what?

4) Jorah fighting the Dothraki fellow was total badassery. He was clearly outmatched in speed but the armor paid off in the end. Those steel dresses that the Dothraki make fun of -- and just plain don't understand -- came back to haunt him. Brutal! Jorah is my new hero.

5) Eddard seeing and saving Arya. Yes! Perfect writing there. In the books it never made sense to me why Eddard didn't spot her on the statue. It is just too touching not to hit this note in the show. So sad.

6) The Cersei/Sansa/Varys freak out when Joffrey decides to off the head. Perfect rendition from the book!

7) Jon's emoness flares up badly in this episode, but at least for once he has reason to be upset.

8) Robb's time is here to take over the show.

--

On an aside, my non-reader sister called me bawling about Eddard. She's in the book up to where Renly just left, and she never expected Eddard to die. But she seems turned off by the series now, which is unfortunate. She said there is no amount of vengeance that will make it right. I didn't have the heart to tell her that there is no vengeance dealt period. :(

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I think they should have showed Jaime plowing his way through 10 men to get to Rob, would have added.

I think the Tyrion, Dany and Ned parts went well on tv though considering what happened. They did change Shae, but even in the books she was somewhat crafty.

Can't wait to see Joffrey choke.

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Wow was that hard to watch. As the book tells it from Arya's perspective, it's no where near as personal. to get all of those shots of Ned after he realized his fate was almost too much. Masterfully done. In fact, everything from episode 6 on has been great (save maybe Littlefinger's "play with her ass" scene).

A little disappointed on the battle scenes, particularly the Whispering wood. Could have done with a little less weird-Shae and 30 seconds of setup for the whispering wood.

Very disappointed there was not one mention of the Tower of Joy. Really thought we'd see something from Ned there....

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3) Bronn has been North of the Wall? Wait, what?

He's Mance Rayder! Or maybe another deserter...

5) Eddard seeing and saving Arya. Yes! Perfect writing there. In the books it never made sense to me why Eddard didn't spot her on the statue. It is just too touching not to hit this note in the show. So sad.

Well, we saw through Arya's POV in the book, right? So maybe this was Mr. Martin telling us how Yoren knew, since Arya couldn't have known Ned was whispering.

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