jellydonut Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Ser Jorah rules. That was epic. :fencing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decius Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Three words: Deep Space Nine.Television show, yet it managed massive CGI battles in the 90's of all times. Granted space combat is different, but money is no excuse when you have talented people working for you. Using CGI to make spaceships and mechanical things look somewhat believable is relatively easy and cheap. Doing the same for organic things is a damn lot harder. Even the effects in Babylon 5, which are rather terrible, hold up well enough today. Compare that with CGI for animals or humans in other movies and series. Rome tried it, and it was completely and utterly terrible. If you don't have the budget to do it right, don't do it, and they didn't - the better decision in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarantella Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Have yet to watch the episode, but I don't mind them glossing over these particular battles - it's not like they're hugely decisive or important aside from Jaime being captured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidonie Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I can't believe no one's mentioned this yet in this thread, but the scene I found totally awesome was when Mirri Maaz Dur was working her blood magic in that tent. The SOUNDS they had coming from that tent were extremely creepy; it actually gave me chills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legba11 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 My fiance still isn't speaking to me after Ned's death. Great work on that scene, so well done. I will have to watch the rest of the episode again to judge it. I spent the whole time waiting for the last scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 What a strangely paced episode. There are scenes that had dragged (Tyrion, Bronn and Shae), scenes that have been entirely skipped (having Tyrion falling and losing his conscious was a really weak excuse to skip the battle, I can't imagine HBO couldn't come up with a clever way to show us some of this battle without raising the costs, were they just being lazy?) and scenes that were rushed (Dothraki story arc).Maester Aemon is really a miscast, his delivery of lines irritates me to the death, and really distracted me from the emotional aspect of the scene (same is true for his scene with Tyrion and Mormont from way back).The Battle of the Whispering Wood, which could be lifted directly from the book and still be hundred times better and more tense at minimal cost, was just another failure.The only scene that stood out was off course the final scene (was GM Pycelle supposed to deliver speech, I think that the High Septon would be more fitting, but that's really minor). Cersei snapping at Joffrey and Varys rushing over to his side was really excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 How else do the kings clash, the swords storm, or the crows feast?Via politics, shadowbabies, tyrs of lys, the strangler...I'd much rather see Bronn's duel, Drogo's "i've all ready killed you" and Jorah v the blood rider a hundred times than 500 extras whacking away at each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legba11 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I can't wait until Shae and Ros act out the battle at the ToJ. Maybe next season.This made me laugh, thinking about the Monty Python "women" reanacting various battles.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMqSmiC_xHgJorah's fight was just great. He ends it using the disdained metal dress against a foe who is not used to fighting an armored man. Great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahimiron Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Want to see a lot of rage from non-readers? Tumblr's got your fix! So good.Don't get me wrong -- good episode in the midst of a good series. However, I *am* a bit bothered by changing the Targaryen family tree. It wouldn't so much, except they eliminate a whole king -- a whole iteration in the Dynasty! I call bullshit.There's the spergin' I was looking for!I don't get the changing the tree complaint at all. Why does it even matter? I didn't even notice the change till I came here and people were bitching about it. No one really complained until Ser Lord of House Caspen. Most people were just like 'hey, it's okay, makes it make sense, Aemon clearly isn't that old' etc etc. There's really no reason to assume that the folks who are running the show care about Jaehaerys. Like as not, George assured them it was fine and pruning the tree for the sake of a closer relationship was fine by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panjer Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Wow, I didn't expect to be emotionally touched by this episode the way I was, I loved it. The loss of battles was kind of a letdown but the last scene more than made up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagfyrBlackfyre Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Using CGI to make spaceships and mechanical things look somewhat believable is relatively easy and cheap. Doing the same for organic things is a damn lot harder. Even the effects in Babylon 5, which are rather terrible, hold up well enough today. Compare that with CGI for animals or humans in other movies and series. Rome tried it, and it was completely and utterly terrible. If you don't have the budget to do it right, don't do it, and they didn't - the better decision in my opinion.It definitely makes sense that an organic looking large scale battle would have been utterly costly or done poorly without a strong budgetary allocation to it. However, that doesn't mean that you can't convey a real sense of the battle or not. This episode really didn't touch upon the anxiety, fear, anticipation, and crazed battle beserkerness that the book delves into when it probably could have to at least a minimal extent. It would have been great to have depicted the battle from a Tyrion POV, that is a POV that simply could not get a glimpse of the whole battlefield for very obvious reasons. Viewers could have gotten a sense of the craziness that the book went into; such things as having to form up behind Ser Gregor, charging amidst the clansmen toward undefined enemies, and seeing some firsthand bloodshed (mace to the arm, helm spike killing horse) would have been riveting, even from a relatively slighted perspective. Plus Peter Dinklage is awesome and having him get his hands bloody in battle would have been great to see. In the book, Tyrion actually manages to fight in this battle, although he does so underhandedly. It's a serious point for Tyrion's development, one which certainly makes his sortie during the battle of King's Landing a feasible undertaking for him. It's Tyrion's first step into what is really a realm belonging only to Jaime and Tywin, that Tyrion previously had absolutely no claim to. In that sense it also sets up the bolder Tyrion we see in King's Landing during A Clash Of Kings. Also through a carefully slighted perspective, the whispering wood also could have been depicted to some extent. Nothing too intensive of course but some lead up to the battle would have been great (i.e. Robb giving orders for a secretive and tactical deployment or seeing the kingslayer with his smaller group of riders charging into the area). In the books, we only witness the battle from Catelyn's 3rd person perspective, so this would have been accurate as well. The book portrayal lacked the firsthand excitement of Tyrion's battle, yet it was still tense and a bit nerve racking. Perhaps seeing the first signs of a charge, and then a cut back to Tyrion, and then back to Robb's victory would have increased the overall excitement/tension, and given a portrayal more accurate to that of the book. Despite what I'm pointing out as shortcomings per my perspective, the last scene made this episode one of the best and most memorable moments of TV I have witnessed. Having read the book twice thus far, I knew what was coming, but I still wasn't ready for the weight of the scene. Amazing acting, cinematography, writing, visuals, and sound came together to form something greater than their whole. What was essentially added from the book (namely Ned noticing Arya) added much more weight to the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanderpanda Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 All the people claiming the battles couldn't have been somewhat shown are forgetting previous cable shows that have shown such things as pointed out by myself and other in the battle thread. Showtime has had numerous shows with epic and well done TV battle shots particularly in 'The Tudors' and more recently 'The Borgias' which the last 2-3 episodes this season had many large sweeping shots of armies done really well. HBO could easily show a few shots at the very least to show case the scale of the battles and armies taking place in this war. No one is expecting a sprawling epic fight scene that goes for 15-20 minutes like Gladiator, Troy, LotR etc but to say that a TV show can't achieve worthy battle scenes on screen in this day in age is down right wrong. Funny thing two is both The Tudors and Borgias and many of the other shows that have achieved these battles on screen have had budgets a few million per episode short of what HBO has given Game of Thrones yet they can't even throw in a few seconds of sweeping armies to drum up the severity of the coming war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warmth of Winter Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Want to see a lot of rage from non-readers? Tumblr's got your fix! So good.Some of those were so hilarious! Like this.It's actually nice to see so much devotion for the show. I think it's gotten bigger than I ever imagined it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Été Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I agree with whoever said the pacing was a bit odd in this episode. There were a few scenes that felt like they could have been split up (e.g. the blood magic scene) though maybe that would have messed things up chronologically. is she a whore? I watched the scene and i couldn't say for sure she is. bronn says he found her with someone. not a whore house. She doesn't accept direct payment. she says she's not low born. she drinks and then fucks Tyrion. now forget the books and what you know. just the scene and if you beleve shae when she plays the game when she says she's not low born. it's not like tyrion is a virgin. so again im not saying he can marry her. based on just the scene is she definetly a whore or just a camp girl. or who knows what?? just saying.Tyrion offers her lots of gold if she'll hang out and screw him; she immediately gets naked. There's definitely room to argue she's a prostitute. But I think you're right, they're making her status more ambiguous - probably so that viewers will be more sympathetic to Tyrion later on when he totally deludes himself about the nature of their relationship.There was more music, or/and it was better so it was more noticeable. In one of the scenes where Robb's army is riding out the music sounded great and really matched the mood of the scene. It reminded me of Star Wars music somehow.It made it seem rather poignant :) I'd like to see more of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Sweeney Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I just want to point out that the E artilce makes a very bold claim that GoT was "As we discuss in our producers interview, this is probably the first time a U.S. drama series has ever killed off its main character in the first season as part of its master creative plan."I beg to differ: Deadwood killed off Wild Bill Hicock after the fourth episode which has to qualify as a major "WTF!?!?!?" moment in TV where the main character was killed off so abruptly (Episode 3/4 IIRC).Wild Bill wasn't the main character in Deadwood. He was passing through and was known historically to have been killed around the time he was in the show. In this instance, keeping him alive would've been the "WTF" moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurney Halleck Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 What the hell? Where was Tyrion's battle, getting all involved with the spiky helm? What the hell! HBO moment, Bronn almost having a threesome with Shae and Tyrion!Knocked out with a warhammer? pfhh...No Wispering Wood! Fuck that.I have been in love with this show since its inception. The only thing bringing me back to the fold is the Sept.That was well done, but in my mind the scene was far grander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashiara Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Oh Ned... :crying:Even knowing exactly what was coming I still found myself crying.The rest doesn't matter, that final scene was so perfect that I can't believe people are still willing to nitpick and bitch about them not showing us the battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Été Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 The only thing bringing me back to the fold is the Sept.That was well done, but in my mind the scene was far grander.It wasn't exactly how I pictured it but I think it's kinda fair enough that they didn't build an actual crystal Sept of Baelor with its huge marble courtyard looming above the crowd :lol: That scene was so, so well done.Oh Arya :'( Maisie Williams is amazing.I remain unbelievably impressed with this series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegan Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 But doesn't Ned try to say something after Joffrey's pronouncement and quickly get silenced? I think that's how it was in the books. Makes sense; if he's going to kill you anyway you might as well try to shout out about the incest. I guess they wanted him to die in a measure of peace in order to soften the blow. To me, it's even worse that he didn't say/attempt to say anything. The lie is really what makes this scene unbearable. I can't remember if he tried to speak in the book, but I wish they would have suggested to the assembled crowd that it wasn't the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Sweeney Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 The show is a visual depiction of Westeros. It's already shown that it doesn't conform to the POV only standard because its shown additional Renly, Loras, Cersei scenes etc. Arguing that the battle happens off screen is weak. And to say that battles don't matter over character development is ignoring the fact that war plays a significant role in the series."There's a war coming Ned"- Robert Baratheon.No it doesn't. I think the looks of near-to-tears relief on Cat's face tells exactly how dangerous the battle was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.