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Ran

How Would You Rate Episode 109?

  

416 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

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People are allowed to dislike what they see...and voice that displeasure. You can ease off the fanboi gas pedal just a little bit. You've been raggin on people all season. It's tiresome to read.

Anyway, lack of battles sucked(i would have shown the Whispering Wood tho) but they did a pretty good job with the rest of the material. My friend who hasn not read the books was watching it with me and she was flat out stunned at the ending. Sort of amusing, really. My highest score so far with a 8.

So it is the best episode so far of the best show currently on television and it merits an eight. Yet I am the one being unreasonable. Gotcha.

This thing is hideously expensive to film. It has far more exterior shots than would be customary in a television show, far more extras than would be customary on a television show. The sets are amazingly expensive and detailed, especially at Castle Black and in Kings Landing. The use of CGI has been judicious and I can only think of one place where it was truly jarring (exterior shots of the Eyrie). So yes, I get miffed at comments that call for MORE spending. The way to get more is NOT to tear down what they've already done. The way to get a bigger budget down the road is for it to become a smash-hit. Nitpicking the thing to death is NOT the way to get something more elaborate down the road.

Including the final scene in a big lump which you describe as 'pretty good' destroys any credibility you had. That scene was damned near perfect. And damned expensive. A huge number of extras, a huge number of principals on set, even if they have no dialogue. An actor weaving through a crowd of extras

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I gave it 8/10.

The death scene was incredible and moving - the child actors for Joffrey, Sansa and Arya really nailed their roles at possibly the most pivotal scene of the first series. So did Sean Bean, of course, but I kind of expected that.

The Twins was good. Jorah was excellent.

I was a touch disappointed by the strategy change by Robb - an explanation that he sent his infantry to attack Tywin as a diversion and most got away, whilst the cavalry nuked Jaime wouldn't have taken too long and would (IMHO) have been realistic enough. The knockout of Tyrion did feel a bit overly comical, but I can easily accept it.

Would have liked to see Jaime carving through men to get to Robb until his sword gets stuck in an unnamed lad (to be later revealed as the son and heir of one of Robb's key bannermen (ie Lord Karstark).

The new Shae didn't do it for me, and does seem - at least on first glance - to be less likely to surprise Tyrion with changing her coat. Nevertheless, I'll try to suspend judgement here.

Maester Aemon was great. I can see why they cut a generation out - the youngsters (Jon, Dany, etc) are all a few years older, and Aemon doesn't look over a hundred (closer to late seventies/early eighties), so a generation down makes sense. As said elsewhere, they can put Jaehaerys in as Aerys's older (childless) brother if necessary.

For some reason, it didn't catch fire for me like episodes 8, 6 and 5 did and I don't know why, thus the overall score of 8. Still very good and very moving, but with some things just not working for me and the episode not catching fire like others.

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This thing is hideously expensive to film. It has far more exterior shots than would be customary in a television show, far more extras than would be customary on a television show. The sets are amazingly expensive and detailed, especially at Castle Black and in Kings Landing.

Wrong. David Simon's miniseries on HBO, Generation Kill, that was only seven episodes, had a budget of $55 million with hardly any major advertising. You didn't see Generation Kill commercials running on ESPN during prime time for weeks straight. Seven episodes of Generation Kill, with a smaller cast, cost more than the first season of Game of Thrones, even with its giant marketing budget.

Where has the Game of Thrones money gone? Marketing? Costumes? HBO executives' pockets? It certainly isn't being spent on the show judging by incredible the lack of scale. And unlike Generation Kill where once those seven episodes were over they were done with the costumes, Game of Thrones can spread out the cost of the sets and costumes throughout as many seasons as the show airs, which if they follow the books is at least seven or eight. The costumes and sets don't cost nearly as much when you use them for eight years. The investment in sets for HBO isn't really that much at all and same goes for wardrobe.

Game of Thrones could have been $100 million per season and been a safe bet for HBO. Everyone already knows this who has worked on a major television show or film. HBO is getting money from subscriptions internationally as well as international licenses for the show, they'll make a killing off of DVD and Blu-Ray sales of this series, and they are getting a cut of the latest run of books (which are selling like wildfire right now). The money is literally pouring in for HBO and lots of media outlets say that HBO has more money than they know what to do with.

HBO could have hired full time animators to create authentic looking CGI adult direwolves instead of using dogs and then writing the wolves off. They could have fully realized The Hand's Tournament, Whispering Wood, shots of both Tywin's and Robb's full armies, and so on. The show is clearly not in good hands and they should have hired a different pair of producers and show runners who wouldn't back down from HBO when it comes to budget.

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Quote from:SerArthurheath

" Jaime killed 10 men trying to get to him and only lost because he got his sword stuck in Robb's bodyguards' corpses. Even if it did happen off screen and thus may as well never have happened. "

I have to say, I do love this show but was so disappointed that I didn't get to see Jaime put up a fight before getting captured. I thought I missed something because I was watching on HBOGo and was interrupted a few times while trying to watch. I rewound thinking I missed how they captured Jaime. All we saw was Robb coming up the hill and throwing him in front of his mother. The line about him losing his sword would have made more sense if they showed how it happened. I think they were going for the shock factor for the viewers who did not read the book, as someone on the forum mentioned. Even if I hadn't read the book, I would have wondered what happened. I didn't need a 10 minute battle...but at least show Jaimes fight. I think that was important.

I agree with the post by CelticKnight:

"I think the entire scene revolving around Ned's execution was handled even better than the

book."

That ending was very dramatic for me, I knew it was going to happen, but actually seeing that whole thing unfold was incredible and emotional. Mad, sad, hateful..

I gave it an 8...I didn't like Shae, for most of reasons people already outlined in this thread. Definately wanted to see more of Jaime, but liked the way they filmed Ned's execution.

Edited by King_slayer

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Long time lurker, first time poster. I joined specifically to post my displeasure with this episode. 1/10. I'm never watching this show again. They butcher two important and relatively small scale battles compared to the future battles in the series. If they're gonna do this to small scale battles then I might as well quit watching right now because I don't want to watch a terrible Blackwater episode. I might as well not set myself up for disapointment. I didn't even get to enjoy Ned's death because I was fuming about that the fact that I got screwed out of two major battles. I can't believe they pulled a Rome on me. This is even worse then when they had a seven episode build-up of a fight between Pompey and Caesar and then just show the aftermath. You just lost yourself a viewer HBO.

EDIT: Thanks for the useless time wasting Tyrion "guess what" scene.

This is a TV drama series not war reenactment. They've got 10 hours to tell a story of a 1000 page book. If you want to devote 5 mins to every battle, there will be no time left at all to further the plot. I agree that they don't always make the right scene choices, the Shae scene is a good example, but I have a feeling that they are going to use her as major plot driving point in the future, so maybe a good introduction was necessary. They also needed to explain the 2 battles that went on better so non-readers could understand the significance of what was happening. Battles aren't plot drivers but the aftermath of battles are. There's nothing better than a good battle scene but, also nothing worse than a bad one. I totally understand why they would sacrifice the battles for major plot driving scenes (Ned's death / Drogo resurrection). It was just unfortunate that they also lost the plot driver of the battles (defeat of Jamie's whole army and lifting the siege of Riverrun).

Edited by ArorA

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I am curious what the 11 people who voted this less than a -5- were watching?

Was this due to floor dropping out during the final scene, or...? :blink:

Next week cannot come soon enough I think... :D

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I would have loved to see a battle scene, yet I understand why it couldn't be done. However, knocking Tyrion out with a warhammer before the battle even started was cartoonish and stupid. He slept through the entire battle! This battle was a great character development opportunity for Tyrion. He got more confident, more experienced in battle, commanded greater respect from the tribesmen and his father Tywin after fighting in this battle.

He is going to be a commander during Blackwater (unless they knock him out before that one too), this experience was huge for him going toward that. Besides, his valor here played a part in Tywin's decision to send him to KL as his proxy.

I wish they'd showed him running from the camp on his horse in front of his men, and cut to him standing exhausted and bloodied and surrounded by corpses at the end. He looked pathetic being carried on a cart having taken no part in the carnage. This is my main problem with this episode, I gave it a 7.

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The scene where Aemon reveals his identity seemed a little rushed. I suppose even in the books it didn't have a large effect beyond Jon's own struggle with duty, but I still thought it could have done with another one or two minutes of dialogue to really make it clear exactly what Aemon's place in the Targaryen family was.

Maybe I'm placing unwarranted significance on it because of the fact that Egg took the throne because of Aemon's decision. This, of course, eventually led to Aerys II becoming king which in turn eventually led to Robert's rebellion and the premise for the entire series.

I almost wish I could have seen the show before reading the books. It's hard to enjoy it as fully as I think I might have.

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I gave this episode an 8 instead of a 10 for two reasons:

The changes made to Shae, I don't mind when the TV show changes something about a character if it's for the better, but I liked book Shae better, you don't need to give a character a foreign accent or a mysterious past to make it interesting, even if I do understand the need to make her recognizable from the other whores and Roz above all.

Master Aemon really can't sell his performance to me, I don't buy that he's blind, nor that he's wise and knowledgeable. Just personal taste I think.

Everything else was excellent, I loved the final scene with Ned and every single moment Bronn was on camera.

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8/10 dammit Shae!

I was pretty neutral about her in the books until she sold out tyrion... like I knew she didn't actually care about him and tyrion knew it too but she did more than just sell him out...

seemed like she was happily whoring from her constantly changing backstory too

she feels so much more like a b**** right from the get-go and not sympathetic in the least

so I'm really going to be cheering when she finally gets it... now that the hand's necklace is a pin, maybe tyrion will stab her eyes out before pushing it into her throat

and Ned...

I wanted some flashback dammit!!! ToJ and/or to his father and brother's death

Rest of the episode other than that excessively long tyrion/bronn/shae game sequence was totally awesome... especially arya's 'how about a nice fat pigeon' lol just the way she says it.

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I liked book Shae better

My first question would be, do you like the book Shae character, as presented in only the chapter she is introduced, better? Or are you comparing the character we see in Books 2 and 3? Because that's not really a valid comparison. We have no idea what they are going to do with this 'new Shae' (and I agree she is quite a bit different at first blush).

Secondly, what exactly about the book Shae do you like better? I always thought she was a pretty uninteresting character and didn't do much except give wicked smiles and pout and call Tyrion "My Giant of Lannister". What makes the book Shae so interesting in the first place? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to pick at you.

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I think the answer is that there's nothing to like about book Shae. She's one of the most 2 dimensional characters in the entire series.

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I simply like how she acts to Tyrion in the books, she complements him well when they are in a scene togheter, she's always playing her cards to get the most advantages out of him and she plays them well. I don't like her being aggressive and generally putting herself above Tyrion in the tv series, she even gives him orders, even if in a playful way, and threatens him.

Of course this is just a first impression based around what we've seen in the last episode, maybe it will change, maybe they will find a new chemistry between this version of Shae and Tyrion.

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I give it a 5. Add me to the complaints of no battle to watch. That is the lamest thing ever. Very displeased.

Is it a budget problem or a problem of too much info to show?

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The people complaining about "lack of huge battle scenes" probably also think Empire Strikes Back is the worst Star Wars movies because it is "the most boringest"...

Instead of GOT, maybe you guys should check out some Michael Bay offerings. They might be more your speed. I hear Transformers 3 is gonna be non-stop action. :)

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Instead of GOT, maybe you guys should check out some Michael Bay offerings. They might be more your speed. I hear Transformers 3 is gonna be non-stop action. :)

:rolleyes: That condescending attitude is of no use. I could just as easily say to you, if you don't like battle scenes or action, go watch Desperate Housewives. You are arguing in an immature way.

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Long time lurker here, and this discussion has finally pushed me to register and comment. It's just my opinion on the matter, no need to start heated discussions on it.

I can understand that people are disappointed by missing the battles, but it didn't come as a surprise to me. As far as I know, the Blackwater is the only large scale battle that George Martin describes in full. Of course, this is because it is the only one where he has a proper POV to show what is going on, but the Whispering Wood and the Battle for the Green Fork are only described partially or as aftermath.

For me, I didn't miss the battles at all. The fights are the least convincing part of the series for me so far, and the way they showed the Lannisters slaying the Starks in King's Landing looked so bad to me, that I'm glad they didn't give 3-4 minutes of precious time to mindless slaughter. It's not Braveheart. Though the whole River Run situation might be a bit unclear to non-readers, they seem to have chosen not to introduce the Tully's at all in this series (no Blackfish etc), so this just follows their logic. Robb won a battle against the Lannisters and caught the Kingslayer, that's what matters and that's what's depicted.

About the Shae/Bronn/Tyrion slumber party, I don't understand how readers can dislike this scene.

It is a build-up for what's to come, like the oft mentioned Stannis Baratheon and the constant showing of Theon Greyjoy as a pretty nasty lad. This scene shows that Tyrion is a cunning little halfman and knows exactly how people are... or at least how Bronn is. But when it comes to Shae, it shows perfectly that Tyrion thinks he knows Shae and 'her type', but he actually could not be more wrong. This is a great build-up for what comes in the later series, where Tywin keeps stating that whores are Tyrion's greatest weakness and Tyrion keeps thinking he knows what he's doing, although he is constantly getting played by Shae.

What I absolutely loved about this episode is that it started with darkness and only the sound of Ned's breathing and it also ended with just the sound of Ned's breathing. The whole execution scene was fantastic, I loved every detail of it. Can't wait until next Sunday.

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I am curious what the 11 people who voted this less than a -5- were watching?

Was this due to floor dropping out during the final scene, or...? :blink:

Next week cannot come soon enough I think... :D

This is exactly why I am avoiding these threads like a plague in favor of TWOP forums. All these frustrated uberfan book readers who spend pages and pages raging about this scene from the books or that scene from the books or how this character is OH MY GOD different than in the books is...well, it's wearying to tell you the truth.

I just want to participate in a civil discussion of the series, of its merits and failings. I have really lost patience with all the whining.

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The people complaining about "lack of huge battle scenes" probably also think Empire Strikes Back is the worst Star Wars movies because it is "the most boringest"...

Instead of GOT, maybe you guys should check out some Michael Bay offerings. They might be more your speed. I hear Transformers 3 is gonna be non-stop action. :)

Empire Strikes Back had a gigantic battle scene...what the hell are you talking about?

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