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[TV SPOILERS] Post Certain Ep 9 Events - The Long-Term Viability of GoT


The Knight of Grasses

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THIS!!!

I know several non-readers who are watching the series and all have been hugely impressed. Several are now reading the books. One of them is reading them because he wants to see 'that little shit Joffrey bite it' and refuses to wait for the series to find out if this actually happens and said that for a few moments after watching it he actually understood those people who play shout at soap actors in the streets. He swears if Jack Gleeson had been in the room he would have decked him.

My Dad was a bit shocked by the manner of his passing but not actually surprised that it happened and my brother had been calling him 'Dead Ned Walking' for weeks. Dad actually made point I've thought for a long time. Game of Thrones is about clearing out the old men, their war was done 15 years earlier, this is a young man (or woman's) war, the rest of the books/series will be about seeing how that plays out. Everyone I know who is watching wants to keep going.

Something I have noticed though, it is not Ned's death that is the kicker for my friends and relatives. Up until he died many of them were actually pointing out how stupid/naive/dumb they thought Ned was and how he'd have to change his tactics or take a hard fall. They liked him but saw him as a noble fool and possibly a bit of a relic. What really got them was Joffrey's betrayal contrasted with Ned's nobility at the very end. Suddenly they are utterly apoplectic and want VENGEANCE, NOW, IN BIG CAPITAL LETTERS.

Summed up perfectly. I watch with two non-readers. They were shocked, but they still love the show. As soon as it was over Sunday, my son grabbed my Kindle and queued up AGoT to start reading.

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Ned Stark = Sirius Black. The character, while beloved, no longer served a purpose, and had to go. (Replace Sirius with Gandalf/Obi-Wan/Leto Atreides as needed.)

Any person watching the series expecting it to be a nice little Tolkeinesque fantasy series where awful things don't happen should probably have let that notion go as soon as they saw Jamie doggie-styling his sister...

Have there been any movies or series where Sean Bean was still alive at the end? LotR, Patriot Games, GoT... maybe Troy?

Had Ned LIVED, you would have seen desertions from the book-readers...

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[After a very important moment in the books] I never intended to drop the series, but I did put the book down for a while after a "what the hell" kind of moment. I imagine a lot of non-readers just had that "what the hell" moment a couple of days ago. Hopefully they'll come out of it.

I agree with those who say that the so-called threat of viewers permanently quitting the show en masse is grossly exaggerated, and is being driven to some extent by media coverage over the novelty of HBO's action.

That said, if there really is a meaningful number of viewers who vowed to stop watching after the execution, the fact that this is not a daily show likely helps. The week between episodes gives traumatized viewers the chance to calm down and reflect on their true feelings about the show. If, like US broadcast-network miniseries, HBO aired Game of Thrones on 10 consecutive days, this might not happen.

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But with The Sopranos, imagine that Tony was killed off at the end of Season 1 (I never watched the show, but I know that he was the main character). Would it have had the run it had? Would people have come back?

That's how a lot of people viewed Ned Stark. Maybe not to quite the same extent as Tony Soprano, but not far off either.

I never also watched The Sopranos; not into mob shows. However, to answer your question, if Tony had died in as compelling a storytelling fashion as Ned did, yes, I think people would have returned. The onus would of course have been on The Sopranos' cast and crew to continue to offer quality entertainment without James Gandolfini, just as the onus is now on the people behind Game of Thrones. Fortunately, its actors and writers have one benefit over the older HBO show: Source material of proven high quality.

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If you have been watching the show you know it's an ensemble show, it's not the kind of show where you have one character carry the weight of the show, people are talking like if this was killing House in the first season house or Dexter in the first season of Dexter, but this show is called Game of Thrones not Eddard, and airtime wise Eddard was barely present in the last two episodes before his demise.

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Ned was the main character in the first book, and especially to people who had not read more "hard" fantasy it was a shock. I kept reading though because of the kids, and Tyrion, never dreaming Jaime would become such an interesting character later.

Having said that scifi/fantasy/history documentaries have been struggling these last years in the ratings anyway unfortunately, but my ranting won't help.

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If the directors improve and the show gets more $ then things should be on the up and up. If not, we may not see season three. I think us fanboys/girls may have to carry it. We will see an better product next season, I believe (not that this season was poor, but it's clear there is room for improvement).

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I never also watched The Sopranos; not into mob shows. However, to answer your question, if Tony had died in as compelling a storytelling fashion as Ned did, yes, I think people would have returned. The onus would of course have been on The Sopranos' cast and crew to continue to offer quality entertainment without James Gandolfini, just as the onus is now on the people behind Game of Thrones. Fortunately, its actors and writers have one benefit over the older HBO show: Source material of proven high quality.

I guess I disagree with you then. I think a lot of people would have left. Enough to push the show off the air? I don't know. We'll never know because it didn't happen.

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I guess I disagree with you then. I think a lot of people would have left. Enough to push the show off the air? I don't know. We'll never know because it didn't happen.

Killing off Tony probably would have killed The Sopranos, but plotwise, even premisewise, Ned Stark was not Tony Soprano.

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Killing off Tony probably would have killed The Sopranos, but plotwise, even premisewise, Ned Stark was not Tony Soprano.

It's true. I was only using the comparison he/she had made originally.

After having read all the discussion, here are my conclusions: I think some people will leave as threatened. However, I'm guessing that a good portion of those would have left anyway at some point, simply because they're just not interested in a story where there are so many shades of gray, and it's difficult to tell the good guys from the bad guys.

But I'm also thinking that the people who are threatening to leave are a vocal minority, and probably not as significant as I first feared. A lot will return once they get over the emotional impact of Ned's death.

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My biggest worry is that HBO is an American company and I've lost count of the number of shows cancelled mid-story because the ratings were falling. Most recent example I can think of is The Event. If the ratings do drop in season 2 due to popular characters dying in season 1 are HBO likely to cancel the show and not finish the story? What is HBO's track record on this (I'm in the UK so know very little about American broadcast companies).

Another query I have is that the impression I get is that most shows have a season per year. If ASOIF has 7 books in total will GRRM managed to get the final volumes written in time for the TV to the same standard as the existing books - bearing in mind the interval between the last and next book? If he can't complete the books in time could the show survive a 2 or 3 year break between seasons?

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Oh come on. People are not going to leave after that last episode. That last scene was a hook if I ever saw one. If this wasn't based on a book and noone knew what was going to happen GOT would likely lose more viewers going into season 2 if they had a happy ending than what they actualy did/ what actually happened. People care now. I myself didn't really get into GOT until they killed Ned. Thats why I'm so pleased with the kid they casted as Joffrey. When the season started I thought well it doesn't really matter how good or bad an actor Gleeson is . In retrospect he needs to be as hatable as a chacter can be b/c IMO the show depended a lot on him making people seethe when he killed Ned, and needed to be a good actor. Mission accomplished

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I've heard a lot of people (not just in the popular reviews) say that if Drogo dies after Ned then they are done with the show. There is too much quality stuff on HBO to watch something that is constantly depressing.

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They may be pissed now, but they'll be back. They'll rage for a bit, but they'll still be curious what will happen to the other characters. Even though they might have seen Ned as their favourite character, I don't think it's very likely that Ned could be the only character anyone could like from the show, there are so many different characters in there, some of which are worked out so great, it can't be just Ned they're watching and (were :P) rooting for.

They'll be back.

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Any person watching the series expecting it to be a nice little Tolkeinesque fantasy series where awful things don't happen should probably have let that notion go as soon as they saw Jamie doggie-styling his sister...

We are talking about the same Tolkien who had Denethor burning himself alive, catapaulted heads at the Battle of Pelennor Fields, the Dead Marshes, Minas Morgul, and a hero who ends up failing at the last minute? Never mind The Silmarillion, where the death toll puts Martin to shame (and which also features incest)...

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My biggest worry is that HBO is an American company and I've lost count of the number of shows cancelled mid-story because the ratings were falling. Most recent example I can think of is The Event. If the ratings do drop in season 2 due to popular characters dying in season 1 are HBO likely to cancel the show and not finish the story? What is HBO's track record on this (I'm in the UK so know very little about American broadcast companies).

Carnivàle was cancelled after 2 seasons, leaving the story unfinished.

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I think the big difference is that a lot of TV viewers get their enjoyment out of characters, plain and simple. That's what keeps them coming back.

I'll be honest, if while watching LOST, they had killed off Sawyer and Hurley in Season 2, I don't know if I would have kept watching.

Would it have been shocking of Dr. House (the main character in HOUSE, played by Hugh Laurie), had kicked it in season 2? Sure woulda been. And the show would have lost droves of viewers.

This is a big difference as compared to most fantasy readers, who read series like ASoI&F and Malazan, and the rest... series' that are essentially about kingdoms. Most fantasy series' are plot-driven. The story isn't ABOUT a character, it's ABOUT... the game of thrones for the realm.

This is a sentiment we're going to have to get used to, because the longer the series goes on, the more the "likeable honorable" characters will get sh-t on, and the more the bad guys will flat out win.

You're going to have a lot more people quite watching. It's the destiny of the series. Still, I want them to keep the integrity of the story intact and follow the books regardless.

If it were up to me, I would do a couple of things if I was HBO...

1) I would actually "light spoiler" the fact that Tyrion (a charismatic and popular character) is going to become The Hand of Joffrey and essentially butt heads with him and Cersei. Center Season 2's promotion around Tyrion in the Viper's Den.

2) Try and do some slight re-arranging, so viewers don't have to wait until Season 4 (! assuming they split ASoS) for some comeuppance. TV is a different medium, everything being slowed down and dragged out the way fantasy novels do it just isn't going to fly. You're going to have a ton of complaints if it's season after season of the bad guys winning - especially after the Red Wedding. S3 imo HAS to end with Tywin and Joffrey getting killed.

I'm not sure how to get there really... maybe start Jamie/Brienne's trek in late Season 2, and also compress Arya's travels (basically vastly streamline the Yoren-to-Harrenhall journey, and once at Harrenhall, jump straight to the J'quen storyline to move things along), and cut out some of the meandering beyond the Wall, basically from Craster's to the point where Jon joins the Wildlings.

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