Lets talk Wolves

[Moester]

This is most likely a scatterbrained post but I'm wondering why Ghost didn't make an appearance until after the battle at the Wall. (Maybe he was just late?)at least he managed to make his way back to Castle Black. I'm still waiting for a chance to see him fight - that one against the Halfhand doesn't count. I want him to be like Grey Wind, going off to battle with Robb.

I'm not sure about the timeline but do you think it's possible that he and Summer may have met?

[Marianne Snow]

Would it be possible for Jon to warg into Ghost (or, at least, have wolf dreams) if the white wolf had no telepathic sense? :dunno: I've interpreted the fact that the other wolves can't hear or feel Ghost to be an echo of Jon's somewhat tenuious connection to his siblings. That impression perhaps comes largely from the way Catelyn went out of her way to keep Jon separate from her children at every opportunity - both Jon and Ghost are brothers somewhat apart from the rest of their respective packs from their very earliest days. Of course, the closeness between Jon and Arya (which to me seems much greater even than the bond shared between Jon and Robb) would seem to contradict that notion...

Maybe Ghost's "silence" to his litter mates is a reflection or how closely the wolf pups bonded with their respective children? Jon is on the Wall, which is cut off from the rest of the world for the most part, so maybe that's part of the explanation? Once Jon goes to the Wall, it seems like Arya is really the only one of the Stark children who give Jon any more thought than 'Oh, but he's gone to the Wall, and so out of the picture.'

Thoughts?

Do you think it may have something to do with the fact that Jon

is not the Stark Children's brother (or so the rumor has it) but their cousin which may still give him the warging gene but the connection with the other children's wolves is lessened??

[Fluid]

As wargs and other magical aspects were so rare before (regarding to the historical time line before GOT), I'm interested to find out how/why all/most of these siblings from one family have this ability. For now I just attribute the 're-awakened' magic to the comet in CoK but I would love to have some further explanation or maybe a prophesy.

But, on topic, I agree with others here about the relation of Jon's observation trait to Ghost's silence. Plus they were both considered outcasts in their respective family/pack. I can see the role of these wolves becoming more and more important and it makes me wonder how Sansa will play a part since she has no wolf.

I also wonder if a human is killed, can they live on within an animal that they can connect to?

[Moester]

As wargs and other magical aspects were so rare before (regarding to the historical time line before GOT), I'm interested to find out how/why all/most of these siblings from one family have this ability. For now I just attribute the 're-awakened' magic to the comet in CoK but I would love to have some further explanation or maybe a prophesy.

But, on topic, I agree with others here about the relation of Jon's observation trait to Ghost's silence. Plus they were both considered outcasts in their respective family/pack. I can see the role of these wolves becoming more and more important and it makes me wonder how Sansa will play a part since she has no wolf.

I also wonder if a human is killed, can they live on within an animal that they can connect to?

I'm more interested on how the Stark children were able to 'tame' their direwolves. Then again, the Targaryens were able to do that with dragons so I guess I'm willing to suspend my disbelief... :smoking:

Regarding your last question, yes a human can do that. Remember in CoK when Jon went with Qhorin and some black brothers and killed a few ranger wildlings (Ygritte became his captive), one of the wildlings, Orell, was warging with an eagle when he was killed and a part of his consciousness remained in the eagle. In SoS I remember two incidents where the eagle attacked Jon, that was most likely Orell angry with Jon for what he did to him.

What I don't know is what happened to Orell's consciousness left in the eagle when another Varamir Sixskins warged with the bird.

[house stark and baratheon]

here are to of my theories why ghost doesnt howl or make noise

1- remember how he was found away from the other wolves? there might have been something wrong with his birth

2- he only makes a sound when jon is in danger?

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Robb can warg into Grey Wind, he just doesn't realize it. Right before Roose Bolton stabs Robb through the heart, Robb says "Grey Wind" in a confused manner, that is probably the exact moment Grey Wind is also killed.

Arya slips into Nymeria almost every night while with the Hound, but she hasn't had someone like Jojen around to tell her that she is in Nymeria.

[Arya Rocks]

Also, since Robb's not a POV character, we haven't really been able to see if he shares any of the abilities to "wolf dream", etc. with his siblings who can, and who are POV characters.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

As a bastard, Jon has no voice as it relates to matters of being a Stark, etc...therefore, his direwolf has no voice.

[Moester]

As a bastard, Jon has no voice as it relates to matters of being a Stark, etc...therefore, his direwolf has no voice.

Ohh, good point!

[SummerGhostofNymeria]

Also, since Robb's not a POV character, we haven't really been able to see if he shares any of the abilities to "wolf dream", etc. with his siblings who can, and who are POV characters.

Very true.

[CrownedStag]

I wonder when we'll get to see Nymeria again. I was really chuffed when Jon and Ghost were reunited at the end of ASOS, it took away a little of the sting of what happened to Robb and Grey Wind. But in the end it was cold comfort really. Robb should've known that something was wrong when Grey Wind got all worked up when they arrived at the Twins

[TeamDanyArya]

Grey Wind has always been a bit growly at people so Robb probably just brushed it off as Grey Wind just being Grey Wind. As I was reading the Red Wedding chapter, I realized Grey Wind acting odd when they first arrived the Twins to be a sign Robb should have listened to. But hindsight is hindsight. I was just so disgusted that they "mounted" Grey Wind's head on Robb's body. What a horrible and strong insult to the Starks and Winterfell.

Oddly enough, after reading this thread, I never picked up on that it is really Nymeria in Arya's dream. I don't know why I didn't make the connection since Bran has the same types of dreams. Probably because Bran picks up on it and had Jojen to interpret what is going on. I always assumed Arya was just simply dreaming of wolves but not necessarily her slipping into Nymeria's body. I want so badly for them to be reunited physically. Arya's been through so much and is so turned around and lost physically and emtionally. Some real comfort and a true friend would be good.

[kephv]

Remember that time (in aCoK)with Yoren where she went to take a leak and there were wolves in the trees? why didnt they attack?

I'm thinking it's because she either smells similar to Nym or they sense her in Arya. Something along those lines since the other wolves are afraid of her.

[Blangadanger]

What I've always found strange regarding Arya is that whenever she dreams of wolves, Nymeria (we assume) is never really that close to her. I always thought that she'd warg into her, then Nymeria would see Arya from afar or at least smell her. But as far as I know, Nymeria acknowledges Arya no more than vice versa.

I find the events surrounding RW interesting in regards to wargs. First you have Robb faintly saying "Grey Wind". I've only read through aSoS, so I can only make assumptions about what that means: at first I thought perhaps Robb said it as it became clear that Grey Wind should have been at his side at that moment, but now that I've read the boards more, I am not entirely dismissive of the idea that he had a stronger connection at that moment. Then we have Bran, who seems to know the events of RW as he's dreaming in the Nightfort. The question I have there is whether Summer just knows what happens because he can sense that Grey Wind is dead or whether Bran actually warged to the RW as it unfolded. The latter seems rather difficult to believe since he had never done it before, but at the same time, if he had managed to warg into Grey Wind for instance, it would explain why it's so clear to him what happened. Finally there's Arya, who appears to warg into Nymeria as she drags the swollen body of her mother from the river. When she wakes, Arya makes no mention of Nymeria, but she no longer doubts her mother's death.

It seems to me that through aSoS we get the sense that all the Stark kids have some very unique connections to their wargs, but only Bran seems to have the ability to control it to a great degree. Bran is also unique in that he can put himself in other humans as well. Arya and Jon still regard the dreams as most people would: providing vague insight on the world, but nothing concrete.

[Errant Bard]

When Arya dreams of being a wolf, she wargs. That's how she killed the mummers chasing them when they escaped Harrenhal, and that's why she fished and defended Catelyn's body.

You will never find any acknowledgement from a wolf because you'll never have a PoV from a wolf, it's always a skinchanger-in-the-wolf PoV.

"Warg" is what you call a human who can control animals, the animals here are just direwolves.

Of course there is a bond, it's some mental/magical thing after all. Bran is the most advanced yes, GRRM even commented on that after ASOS, but all the Stark kids have the ability.

[The Roaring Bear]

Would it be possible for Jon to warg into Ghost (or, at least, have wolf dreams) if the white wolf had no telepathic sense? :dunno: I've interpreted the fact that the other wolves can't hear or feel Ghost to be an echo of Jon's somewhat tenuious connection to his siblings. That impression perhaps comes largely from the way Catelyn went out of her way to keep Jon separate from her children at every opportunity - both Jon and Ghost are brothers somewhat apart from the rest of their respective packs from their very earliest days. Of course, the closeness between Jon and Arya (which to me seems much greater even than the bond shared between Jon and Robb) would seem to contradict that notion...

Maybe Ghost's "silence" to his litter mates is a reflection or how closely the wolf pups bonded with their respective children? Jon is on the Wall, which is cut off from the rest of the world for the most part, so maybe that's part of the explanation? Once Jon goes to the Wall, it seems like Arya is really the only one of the Stark children who give Jon any more thought than 'Oh, but he's gone to the Wall, and so out of the picture.'

Thoughts?

Good ideas.

I do think the wall has something to do with it though. Not because its far, but I think there's a reference about it being a magical barrier as well, possibly shrouding Jon and Ghost from the others. Also, I wouldn't say that Arya is the only one. I mean Robb was making plans to legitimize Jon as well as free him from his Oaths to the Night's watch, clearly he had been thinking an awful lot about Jon and was very close to him.

[Lupomostro]

I'm more interested on how the Stark children were able to 'tame' their direwolves. Then again, the Targaryens were able to do that with dragons so I guess I'm willing to suspend my disbelief... :smoking:

I sort of wondered if it was a kind of symbiosis of circumstance: the Stark children possessed the innate ability to warg, but would never have discovered this if they had not raised the pups - they could not have raised direwolf pups if they were not wargs and able to 'connect' with their wolves in this way.

I like the idea that the magic of the wall is somehow shielding Ghost and Jon from the other wolves (and it might explain why Jon cannot sense Ghost after he has crossed the wall, but Ghost has not). It seems that the only two Stark children who understand their gift are Jon and Bran, as they have had help from those who actually know about warging.

I think that Summer's attack to save Jon shows that even though the wolves may be separated from each other, and the children too, they recognise each other and stand together as a pack. Ghost may have been found apart from his siblings, but this incident shows the significance of that first encounter: it was not that Ghost had been rejected from the pack, he just stood apart from them, as Jon always did. Ghost is the lone wolf, but he still has a pack.