A World of Ice and Fire: Mapping the North

[Rodrik of Dorne]

I would like to know if the upcoming book (A World of Ice and Fire) is going to present us with a more detailed map of the North. What I think is not clear until now:

- Where is Cerwyn Castle located? I know its near Winterfell, but is it north or south of the river?

- Where is the Acorn Water?

- Where is the seat of House Ryswell (of the Rills)?

- Where is Hornwood (seat of House Hornwood)?

- Where is Goldgrass (seat of House Stout)?

- Where is the seat of House Lightfoot?

- Where is the seat of House Lake?

- Other Houses we know nothing: House Fenn, House Ironsmith, House Marsh, House Mollen, House Moss, House Overton, House Slate, House Whitehill and House Woolfield.

* Some of those Houses did not appeared anywhere in the books, any rumor if they are to appear in A Danse with Dragons?

* Other in Law created a great map of the Seven Kingdoms (here http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Gallery/Entry/2277/ ). What you guys think about the places the artist located the Houses of the North? I know it is speculative work (and well done), but I'm curious about it. What tidbits of data could be possibly used during the creation process?

[Werthead]

- Where is Cerwyn Castle located? I know its near Winterfell, but is it north or south of the river?

On the HBO map, Castle Cerwyn is located due south of Winterfell on the southern shore of the tributary of the White Knife. It's a bit further than the day's ride mentioned in the books (30-50 miles), which I think can be chalked up to artistic licence. On that scale it'd probably be barely outside of the symbol marking Winterfell.

- Where is the Acorn Water?

Is there an Acorn Water mentioned in the books? Hmm. The only remaining unnamed rivers in the North are around the Rills, so maybe it's one of those.

- Where is the seat of House Ryswell (of the Rills)?

Unknown.

- Where is Hornwood (seat of House Hornwood)?

According to the HBO map, again, Hornwood Castle is located near the headwaters of the Broken Branch.

Note that, AFWK, the maps are based on GRRM's information, but that doesn't mean that HBO have had to be faithful to his info, and may have moved stuff around based on their whims.

[Guest Other-in-Law]

The Acorn Water is a river or stream lying somewhere between the Dreadfort and Winterfell. The mill where the two miller's sons were killed to be used as phony Bran and Rickon corpses is located there. Ramsay mentioned that he passed there when Rodrik Cassel brought him from the Dreadfort to Winterfell as a captive. Since their route would also cross the White Knife, it makes sense that it would be a small tributary of that river.

We know where the region called the Rills is, no doubt the Ryswell castle is somewhere in that area. Likewise we knew that the Hornwood lands must have been located roughly between the Bolton and Manderly lands, since those two houses started fighting over the Hornwood territory, and old Lord Hornwood once asked for the right to dam the White Knife, so his lands must have reached at least that far west. The Stouts of Goldgrass are bannermen of the Dustins of Barrowton, so they are probably in that general vicinity. Some houses have clues in either their names or blazons; for instance the Marshes and Fenns sound as if they live in some wetland region, very possibly near the Neck.

[Rodrik of Dorne]

Hey, and how about House Whitehill? They have knights and keep the faith, like the Manderlys of White Harbor. Don't you think their lands are near the White Knife (you located them near Torrhen's Square)? Maybe they are swornswords to the Manderlys.

Thanks Other-in-Law.

Now, I would like to know if Elio could say something about the maps made for the upcoming books.

Also, there are some houses (in the Heraldry Section) not mentioned in the books. Do we get a list of Houses with the upcoming work?

[tyrion84]

Hey, and how about House Whitehill? They have knights and keep the faith, like the Manderlys of White Harbor. Don't you think their lands are near the White Knife (you located them near Torrhen's Square)? Maybe they are swornswords to the Manderlys.

Thanks Other-in-Law.

Now, I would like to know if Elio could say something about the maps made for the upcoming books.

Also, there are some houses (in the Heraldry Section) not mentioned in the books. Do we get a list of Houses with the upcoming work?

look here a medieval/kidsbook map of the north and its houses

http://aidanmoher.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/the_North_by_Other_in_Law.jpeg

[voodooqueen126]

I would like to know where the Poole's lands are located...

Would be awesome if their family seat was called Bluepoole and located in the South West over looking the sea to Pyke. I suggest the river between the Rills and the Stoney Shore...

It could be like the Blackpool of Westeros.

[Bad Dog]

Maybe the Pooles don't have lands at all, but serve the Starks in something similar to serjeantry.

[voodooqueen126]

Maybe the Pooles don't have lands at all, but serve the Starks in something similar to serjeantry.

hmn but aren't they a noble house atleast-with a coat of arms and everything. I figured that poor Jeyne was just from a cadet branch.

[Bad Dog]

A coat of arms doesn't necessarily have to mean they possess lands, I think. They might be little more than sworn swords. :dunno:

[voodooqueen126]

A coat of arms doesn't necessarily have to mean they possess lands, I think. They might be little more than sworn swords. :dunno:

i figured they were the equivalents of landed Knights since they are not mentioned as being nobles.

[Bad Dog]

And I thought they were landless, or at least ot from a main branch and therefore landless (as you suggested above) - but well, I don't think it's answered anywhere, so we both are stuck with our own interpretations. :)

[voodooqueen126]

And I thought they were landless, or at least ot from a main branch and therefore landless (as you suggested above) - but well, I don't think it's answered anywhere, so we both are stuck with our own interpretations. :)

I reckon the main branch of Pooles are the equivalent of landed knights (although arguably Masterly houses fulfil the same function in the North) whilst the branch that Jeyne and Vayon belong to don't even have the land hence their position as stewards at Winterfell.

Anyway here's hoping that the landed Pooles live on the Western coast of the North at a place called Bluepoole :P

[The hairy bear]

Owning a coat of arms does not imply lands. Even hedge knights such as Duncan the Tall have coats.

I think the most reasonable assumption is that Vayon and Jeyne Poole were "the main branch" of their family. I think it would be very risky sending Jeyne back posing as Arya Stark if she still had living relatives among the nobility of the North.

[voodooqueen126]

Owning a coat of arms does not imply lands. Even hedge knights such as Duncan the Tall have coats.

I think the most reasonable assumption is that Vayon and Jeyne Poole were "the main branch" of their family. I think it would be very risky sending Jeyne back posing as Arya Stark if she still had living relatives among the nobility of the North.

gah I am sure that she was mentioned as being from a cadet branch but having basically grown up in Winterfell.

[Bad Dog]

Any ultimate book geek who can confirm that?

[cybroleach]

Owning a coat of arms does not imply lands. Even hedge knights such as Duncan the Tall have coats.

Ya I always put them down as this sort of noble class with the information we have on them and how many people have heraldry. I always figured Vayon was the son/decendant of a hedge Knight who joined perminate service at WF where he leared servitude having no martial prowess and rose to his position.