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Bronn or Sandor Clegane?


Andhaira

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I am confused about this Bronn mania. He is a mercenary who almost never fights alone, and who has beaten precisely one enemy (Vardis), of whom we have no reason to think as a worthy opponent.

The Hound has fought the Mountain to a standstill, killed Beric, slew Polliver and the Tickler at once, one the Hand's Tourney, and is universally feared and respected. This is like asking if David Tyree could win a fistfight versus Ray Lewis. A one-shot pinup hero versus a feared veteran.

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I am confused about this Bronn mania. He is a mercenary who almost never fights alone, and who has beaten precisely one enemy (Vardis), of whom we have no reason to think as a worthy opponent.

The Hound has fought the Mountain to a standstill, killed Beric, slew Polliver and the Tickler at once, one the Hand's Tourney, and is universally feared and respected. This is like asking if David Tyree could win a fistfight versus Ray Lewis. A one-shot pinup hero versus a feared veteran.

Tyrion claims Bronn is the best swordsman he has seen after his brother. Bronn got through the Vale without so much as a scratch and was described by Catelyn as being a whirlwind and killing guys left and right. He studies his opponents during their practice matches, notes their weaknesses on the off chance that later on he may have to fight them.

So granted, we havent seen Bronn fight in many battles. But keep in mind, we havent actually seen much from the Hound either. He killed Beric, who had already died numerous times by that point so obviously wasnt the greatest swordsman ever, and Polliver and Tickler were good but nothing special. Keep in mind, I'm not saying the Hound isnt better then Bronn, but that we actually havent seen all that much from any of the two except for constant glaring and anger from the Hound.

If Bronn was constantly angry and threatened everyone all the time, wouldnt he have a much larger reputation then he does now?

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Sandor has nothing to lose, Bronn has a lot to lose.

Sandor can wear heavier armour, and is far less likely to tire like teh Vale knight. Plus, Bronn and Sandor likely have very similar fighting styles, lots of brawling type moves.

Plus, we have no idea how gimped his leg is, anyways.

Regarding Beric - remember, ultimately, he lost because his sword broke.

Be a great fight, tho.

Didn't it break because Sandor cut it in half?

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Sandor and it isn't even close.

Bronn is described as a very good fighter who surprises a lot of mediocre members of the nobility because they consider skill at arms to have something to do with birth.

Sandor is not a mediocre member of the nobility. Sandor is one of the three best fighters in the Seven Kingdoms.

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A lot of people seem to be suggesting that Bronn mostly beat Ser Vardis because of his willingness to fight dirty, but keep in mind that Ser Vardis was fucked from the get go. Not only was he over-armored, including an inappropriate shield he had to lug around, but Lysa had forced him to use what was basically a ludicrous ceremonial sword Jon had had commissioned (likely as an excuse to get a look at Gendry) with which Ser Vardis was even clumsier due to his not being used to the weapon's weight and balance. Egen was hampered by more than just his honor, he was hamstrung from the start.

Anyway, I vote Sandor assuming we're talking both fighters in their prime and neither is allowed to bring along archers or something stupid like that.

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Where do people the the impression that Sandor is some god of war? While he was licking Joffery's boots and hiding from his brother, Bronn was going north of the Wall, and kicking ass across the Seven Kingdoms. Tyrion considers Bronn second only to pre-maimed Jaime, and seeing as Sandor was a Lannister guard, I'm sure he had his measure.

The way I see it, the Hound's one notable achievement is killing Beric Dondarrion, and it's not like Gregor hadn't done that several times already. Bronn is smarter, faster, and meaner. He's never drunk or angry, and he's never, ever, unprepared.

However badass he pretends to be, the Hound is a knight of summer. He broke at his first battle. Bronn would carve him like a turkey.

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Bronn was going north of the Wall

Back this statement up with a quote from the books.

The way I see it, the Hound's one notable achievement is killing Beric Dondarrion

And, uh, winning the Tourney of the Hand? Most folks in Westeros consider the winning of tournaments to be 'notable achievements'.

He broke at his first battle.

The Hound killed his first man in combat at 12 and has been serving the Lannisters since the day Gregor took control of the Clegane estates. You genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.

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Nnorb - I'm fairly certain going north of the wall was ONLY in the tv show, that scene doesn't exist in the books.

We don't know that the Battle of the Blackfire was Sandor's only battle, it more than likely wasn't. If Gregor saw action during Robert's War, there's a good chance Sandor did, too.

But here's a telling point - Sandor fought Gregor to a standstill, and was always willing to go after him; Bronn had serious misgivings about fight Gregor, and refused to, actually.

The two fights we've seen Bronn in, neither really pitted him against somebody with a chance. The Vale knight was gimped by using a clumsy sword he was unfamiliar with, had shit vision due to his fancy helm, and lost to a statue. heh. Falme's husband? An idiot.

Btw - read again all teh ways Beric died. Lance, dagger to the eye, hanging... most of his deaths had nothing to do with swordplay, and more to do with being ambushed by superior numbers. Plus, I'm gonna assume being some kinda revenant might take the edge off your skills.

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He broke at his first battle? He fought in the Blackwater for ages before the fire did him in. No fire, he's likely got no problem

You know the funny thing about excuses? Bronn never has to make them.

Nnorb - I'm fairly certain going north of the wall was ONLY in the tv show, that scene doesn't exist in the books.

Fair enough, but he is a sellsword, facing life or death situations on a regular basis. Sandor is a nobleborn bodyguard to the Prince, sure he probably gets in plenty of time at the practice yard, but the two don't really compare. The only threats to Joffery's life seem to be eight year olds.

We don't know that the Battle of the Blackfire was Sandor's only battle, it more than likely wasn't. If Gregor saw action during Robert's War, there's a good chance Sandor did, too.

Gregor saw action in the Sack of King's Landing and the Siege of Pyke, we hear nothing about Sandor's involvement in these events, but as Joffery's hound, I doubt he ever went far from King's Landing.

But here's a telling point - Sandor fought Gregor to a standstill, and was always willing to go after him...

Sandor fled from Gregor the second he got the chance, and never seriously confronted him (with intent to kill) since.

If someone shoved Bronn's head in a brazier, they'd be dead the next day.

The two fights we've seen Bronn in, neither really pitted him against somebody with a chance. The Vale knight was gimped by using a clumsy sword he was unfamiliar with, had shit vision due to his fancy helm, and lost to a statue. heh. Falme's husband? An idiot.

Varis was the Vale's master at arms, you don't just get any asshole to do that job. He knew his stuff, it's just that Bronn knew better. And Falme's husband thought he could take Bronn because he was a vastly superior jouster, just like Sandor might think he could take Bronn because he's a superior swordsman.

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People cant use tournaments as a basis for awesomeness. Mormont won one, and he isnt exactly the greatest fighter around. Loras is far better at tournaments then his brother, yet even he claims Garlan is a better fighter. Straight up full-on fights is an entirely different matter.

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I don't really understand the obsession with either of these characters to be entirely honest. They are both seemingly elite fighters and at that level the differences are very slight. Bronn has the edge in speed and possesses a ruthless cunning. Sandor has the edge in strength and has a better reach. I think it would probably come down to who was the most patient. If Sandor is prepared to let Bronn skip around and exhaust himself rather than trying to chase him down like Vardis Egen did and going for a quick finish then he'd win. If he was to let his pride force him to rush matters then I guess the bout would go to Bronn.

Personally I'd be hoping they did an Erryk and Arryk though.....

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If this was Loras Tyrell vs. Sandor Clegane, I wonder if the Knight of Flowers would get any more votes than Bronn.

The Hound is a top five living fighter, where as I would put Bronn in the 8,9,10 region.

Staying alive though is a different thing. Bronn is more cold and calulated than Sandor, who just batters people away furiously.

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Have you read teh books at all, Norb?

Sandor was born to the master of hounds, not a noble family.

Joffery wasn't even born when Sandor first killed... and I hardly think he started out as teh prince's bodyguard.

Sure, I guess we haven't been shown a huge number of scenes where Sandor kicked ass btween the fall of the Targs and the series...then again, we haven't seen shit about Bronn's career, either.

Bronn is a sellsword - he avoids real danger every chance he gets...because he has no honour, and he doesn't seem rich before he meets Tyrion...so where is he getting work? Except for the Pyke Rebellion, the realm has been at peace for 15 years...so, umm, where is all this danger he faces?

So, when did Sandor flee from Gregor? And, I'm pretty certain he was trying to kill Gregor at the tourney. After that, well, Oberyn fucked Gregor up, and Sandor was on the road.

You also forget, Sandor didn't recieve training from a master of arms as a boy...they didn't have one. He learned the same way Bronn did.

Put Bronn's face in a brazier, burn him to the extent Sandor was, and... you have months to finsih the job, because nobody is doing shit with their face charred to the bone.

If, by your words, Sandor is the better swordsman, and he has the advantage of size and reach...Bronn has no advantages at all. None.

I wouldn't say it's a given Sandor would win, I'll wager it would be a very close fight, but there is no way I'd agree that Bronn is certain to win.

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He wasn't trying to kill Gregor...Ned notices that he never swings at Gregor's head despite him not having a helm on at that time.

And Sandor was burned in the face when he was a child. I really doubt Bronn was a stone cold killer at age six. Actually, given that he was a nobody without prime medical care he'd probably die.

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Jory Cassel was Winterfell master-at arms and he wasn't a great fighter (Ned seemed to do better during the fight with Lannister men) - actually Lyn Corbray stated that he was best swordsman of all those gathered at Eyrie and noone seemed to object. So Bronns victory doesn't appear to be that great (of course if it was Lyn fighting, we would propably never hear of Bronn again).

Sandors age when he killed his first men corresponds to Roberts rebellion so its safe to assume that he fought at least in the sack of Kings Landing - at the age of only 12. His ability as fighter are aknowledged by Jaime - while Bronns only by non-fighters like Cat or Tyrion. And as to him being badass sellsword - well, rest of sellswords appears to be only decent - Meero of Bravos was around for longer, was aknowledged by Jorah as decent fighter, and we all know what Barristan did to him with a stick... I doubt Bron is much better than Titans Bastard, certainly wiser though.

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