Arya Stark How is this going to work long term?

[GoodGuyA]

I feel that sometimes people just get too attached to the source material. What is the issue of making The War of the Five Kings into a two year affair? Nothing in the books with the exception of Bran ever tells me that things need to be along a specific timeframe, and Martin has even admitted that he just kind of throws his hands up in the air when it comes to perfect chronology (teleporting ships!).

Specifically with Arya, I think it will add a lot to it being a visual medium with her growing up at the pace that she does. If we go around at this rate, she will reach adulthood by the end, and I think that's absolutely perfect for where the story is headed. Remember, Martin originally intended the five year gap, and a lot of people are saying that ADWD is making up for that slightly especially with Arya. I don't agree to the extent they say it, but I can see all of this building her up to be something completely new by the end.

As I said, Bran is the only issue, and it's mainly the height thing. There are camera tricks you can do with that, because I think Bran growing through his arc is effective as well. For Sansa, it's kind of necessary given what she's done up through Feast. Rickon's seriously not important whatsoever. Makes me feel bad for the kid playing him! But all of this worry is a load of nonsense. There is no reason to be all flabbergasted about it.

[Padraig]

All in all, I have a bad feeling about next season and, as a result of that, I seriously doubt if they'll make it to season 3. It's a shame as I believe that that book really deserves an adaptation.

I think we are almost guaranteed a third season right now. The show has built up a lot of steam and I can't see how it can be derailed over the next few months. Very few buy the S1 DVD? Very few watch the opening episode of S2? I can't see how those options are likely. Anything beyond S3 might be getting optimistic but that's a different question.

Anyhow, while aCoK does have its own challenges, there is still plenty of material to keep people interested. The whole Stannis v Renly v Joffrey arc is very exciting IMO (and that is where the climax of S2 will be). Unlike you, I do think the Tyrion v Cersei struggle will make very good TV. While the whole Theon and Bran arc will be gutwrenching. They are also going to feature more of Robb, which should make good TV also. And Arya has an exciting story too, as you say.

There are some worries about Jon and Dany's stories but I think the other aspects should overcome those elements. No sign that they will show the Unsullied though but they could still show Dany making the choice to go visit the Slave Cities (which is the opening Dany chapter in aSoS). But if the writers were seriously concerned by aCoK, they could fastforward more elements of aSoS. The fact that they may not, means we will get some time to breath in S2, which is not a bad thing at all.

[Anvik]

GRRM himself has said that the show's ages of the characters is +3 to 4 years to what they started at in the books. Dany in GoT season 1 is 17, not 13. Despite it being HBO, you can't have a 13 year old having those kinds of sexual encounters/nudity in today's society, so to make that work, they made everyone older in the show versus the books.

At season 1 start, Dany is 17, this puts robb and jon at about the same age, 16/17 rather than the 13/14 they were in the books, Rickon, is by no means a 3year old in the series, his character, and all the children characters have been aged to match Dany, as their ages are (apparently) important to their relation. So everyone's been saying Arya won't work because she'll look too old. in the show, she started out at age 12, not 9, and Sansa started at age 14, not 11.

Seems GRRM didn't get to put his 'time skip' into the books, but he did manage to wiggle it into the show with making everyone a few years older than the text says they are. The story will work fine I think, did throughout season 1 for me :)

[DaveSumm]

I can't quote cos I'm on my iPhone, but the two points 'each book lasts about a year, so does each series' and the reminder that the series characters are older........how is there possibly any problem? So all the young cast are about as old as their characters, and they're required to grow older at a rate of one year per year? Sounds pretty sorted to me.

[Dragon greyscale]

I think we are almost guaranteed a third season right now. The show has built up a lot of steam and I can't see how it can be derailed over the next few months. Very few buy the S1 DVD? Very few watch the opening episode of S2? I can't see how those options are likely. Anything beyond S3 might be getting optimistic but that's a different question.

Anyhow, while aCoK does have its own challenges, there is still plenty of material to keep people interested. The whole Stannis v Renly v Joffrey arc is very exciting IMO (and that is where the climax of S2 will be). Unlike you, I do think the Tyrion v Cersei struggle will make very good TV. While the whole Theon and Bran arc will be gutwrenching. They are also going to feature more of Robb, which should make good TV also. And Arya has an exciting story too, as you say.

There are some worries about Jon and Dany's stories but I think the other aspects should overcome those elements. No sign that they will show the Unsullied though but they could still show Dany making the choice to go visit the Slave Cities (which is the opening Dany chapter in aSoS). But if the writers were seriously concerned by aCoK, they could fastforward more elements of aSoS. The fact that they may not, means we will get some time to breath in S2, which is not a bad thing at all.

Perhaps I'm too much of a pessimist. I don't know the intricacies of tv production, but from what I gather from American tv shows (I am Dutch myself) is that tv execs can be pretty brutal. It's all about ratings ratings ratings. Then again, HBO aired the awsome The Wire for 5 seasons. But they cancelled Deadwood.... oh well, we'll just have to wait and see.

You're right about the theon arc; I had forgotten about that being in aCoK. It's an exciting arc indeed. Apologies, my memory is a bit blurry as I only read the series once. Although now that I mention it, I remember reading on another site that they might skip the burning of winterfell this season? I think people were speculiting something like that because Reek has not been cast yet. If it's true, it would be a VERY bad decision. The shock with Bran and Rickon is very good to keep viewers in suspense.

The Tyrion vs Cersei stuff, I gues you're right that we agree to disagree on that issue. My main reason for doubting its effects on screen is that a lot of it happens inside Tyrion's mind in the book. He orders wildfire and a chain very early on and they're both used at the battle. That itself is not really intruiging; it's the mystery between the two points in the story which makes it interesting. I don't think that is easily transferable to screen. The same is true for Tyrion's marriage arrangements with the Tyrells and Martells. Viewers don't really know about these houses so why should they care about them?

And yeah, the Dany and Jon stories are big problems as well. I think mainly because season one ended on their stories gaining a lot of momentum (confronting the others; dragons are born) but the follow-up in aCoK is really uneventful in comparison. It think the general feeling will be something like; is winter ever coming? or, are the dragons ever going to do something? You can only hold suspense for so long before it becomes stale and feels like a cheap trick.

Again, most of the books are one big blur to me because I read it back to back only once. The TV adaptibility issue is just a gut feeling I had after finishing the series. aCoK felt meh; aSoS was awesome; affc was good book but a bad script; adwd was a bit of a hit and miss for me.

I should mention that I'm an HBO bandwagoner to the books so maybe my attention was already focused on reading it "as a script."

I love the books in and of themselves. They're very good books and I even think AFFC is the best one (arguably one of the slower paced books), However, in terms of television material I think fans should start to be seeing the books more and more as an inspiration rather than something to be literally translated. Heck, new stories and characters might benfit the overall series. Robb's campaign is a good example.

[strongboar]

Perhaps I'm too much of a pessimist. I don't know the intricacies of tv production, but from what I gather from American tv shows (I am Dutch myself) is that tv execs can be pretty brutal. It's all about ratings ratings ratings. Then again, HBO aired the awsome The Wire for 5 seasons. But they cancelled Deadwood.... oh well, we'll just have to wait and see.

What you're describing is US network tv, not the premium channel tv, and especially not the HBO. They're keeping shows with abysmal ratings (Trem, Enlightened) because they got critical recognition.

GoT is a breakout hit, considered for awards Just look at all the recognition from the mainstream media that GRRM is getting now. I'm pretty sure we will have season 3 (and possible 4, if rumors about them being filmed together is true) greenlighted before the end of April, 2012.

[genegirl]

I think too much thought has been put into this. Hollywood and film makers have always had older actors playing children. The same question came up with the Harry Potter movies but in the end they ended the movies with the most of the same actors the film makers started with. I think ACoK will be just as amazing as the first season. The ending will be equally stunning, if not jaw dropping with Theon and Winterfell and the Battle of Blackwater.

I had not read AGoT in years but listening to it on CD in my car was excellent.

[Elrond Hubbard]

I don't think A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons are filmable. Bits and pieces of them are (Bran, Theon, and Cersei's descent into madness come to mind), but the structure of those two books isn't suited to a TV series in the way the first three are. Maybe the series ends with A Storm of Swords and it ends with many of its plot threads unresolved, maybe they cut several subplots from the books and try to make it work (even then, I think they would need to rewrite much of Tyrion, Jon, and Dany's POV, and give characters like Littlefinger a bigger role), maybe they do a final fifth season that diverges substantially from the books and wraps up the loose ends from the first three books in a unique way.

[Top Notch Balanter]

I dont see how ageing up the child actors will be that big of a problem i mean Richard Madden Kit Harrington and Emilia Clarke are 10 years older then their characters in the book and that hasnt caused too much of a problem. It also shouldnt be too hard for them too age down Mausue Williams or Sophie Turner by a few years as Maisie has a very youthful face and in the book Sansa appears too look older then her 12/13 years of age The only real problem is Bran who will be about 13 at the end whereas Isac Hepstead Wright might be about 17 by the time its finishing which will mean that unless he grows up with a very boyish look then he is going to appear alot older then Bran should

[Lord Godric]

And yeah, the Dany and Jon stories are big problems as well. I think mainly because season one ended on their stories gaining a lot of momentum (confronting the others; dragons are born) but the follow-up in aCoK is really uneventful in comparison. It think the general feeling will be something like; is winter ever coming? or, are the dragons ever going to do something? You can only hold suspense for so long before it becomes stale and feels like a cheap trick.

I don't see much of a problem with Jon's storyline because Jon's storyline = the Night's Watch storyline and they have plenty going on beyond the Wall. The real concern comes with Dany's storyline, and I do not think this is something that is restricted to this book/season for her. I think she will really be the challenge when it comes to keeping viewers interested because she had such an interesting storyline in Season 1 and there has yet to be anything written that parallels that excitement.

[Buckwheat]

I can't quote cos I'm on my iPhone, but the two points 'each book lasts about a year, so does each series' and the reminder that the series characters are older........how is there possibly any problem? So all the young cast are about as old as their characters, and they're required to grow older at a rate of one year per year? Sounds pretty sorted to me.

Each book does not last about a year. I believe that AGOT does, or maybe a little less, all of the following books have a shorter timespan. Jon is not 19 and Arya is not 14 in ADWD, Lollys got pregnant somewhere in the middle of ACOK and gave birth towards the end of AFFC, lord Frey's wife has been pregnant for two books now, so the books take shorter amount of time than a year.

But even so, I do not think that the ages of the characters will be much of a problem. Robb and Jon already appear much older than they are supposed to be, so the viewers just have to accept it. Bran's height will not be a big problem because, well, his character never stands up - he is always seated which will make filming under particular angles easier, thus making him appear shorter. Sansa's actress is not going to grow much anymore. A little problem is Arya, but she is never in company with the same characters for a long time, so she will not be constantly compared to one person.

I believe that the strangest scene was already filmed: the scene in the first episode where the king and his family visit Winterfell and the Starks await them in the yard. Sansa stands next to Robb and is almost as tall as he is and she does not look about 4 years younger than he. Then Arya comes and looks like a toddler next to her. The Stark children do not meet in the next books, so there will be no scenes with strange realtions between them.

[Padraig]

Perhaps I'm too much of a pessimist. I don't know the intricacies of tv production, but from what I gather from American tv shows (I am Dutch myself) is that tv execs can be pretty brutal.

As Strongboar said, HBO operates differently from American network TV. The buzz regarding GoT is exactly what HBO loves. So I don't think that S3 is a concern at all.

As for Theon. There is speculation that they may skip the last Theon chapter in S2. Maybe but that still leaves a lot going on. And I don't understand your concerns regarding Tyrion. It worked very well on page (I presume you agree with that) and they can always get Tyrion to verbalise something to Bronn if he only thinks it in the book. That's just Adaptation 101. We don't know much about the Martells and the Tyrells in the books either, so that isn't an issue.

I don't see Dany or Jon been a big problem. As I said, they can move forward some scenes from aSoS if the writers think it is a problem. (Certainly the prologue scene in aSoS might end S2). While some people were unhappy with Dany's story in aCoK, most seem happy enough with what she gets up to in aSoS. There is an issue about tieing her story with Westeros but I think that is more an issue with adapting aDwD than aSoS.

I think fans should start to be seeing the books more and more as an inspiration rather than something to be literally translated.

Maybe eventually but that hasn't happened yet, so i'm not going to worry over it.

Maybe the series ends with A Storm of Swords and it ends with many of its plot threads unresolved, maybe they cut several subplots from the books and try to make it work (even then, I think they would need to rewrite much of Tyrion, Jon, and Dany's POV, and give characters like Littlefinger a bigger role), maybe they do a final fifth season that diverges substantially from the books and wraps up the loose ends from the first three books in a unique way.

If the next couple of seasons continue to do well, then option 1 isn't an option. D&D seem to respect GRRM too much to go in a completely different direction. I can see them cutting bits and pieces of Tyrion's, Jons and Dany's plots but I don't see what is the problem with the overall plot. They can add chapters from tWoW if that helps also.

[BreastplateWithNipples]

Perhaps I'm too much of a pessimist. I don't know the intricacies of tv production, but from what I gather from American tv shows (I am Dutch myself) is that tv execs can be pretty brutal. It's all about ratings ratings ratings. Then again, HBO aired the awsome The Wire for 5 seasons. But they cancelled Deadwood.... oh well, we'll just have to wait and see.

AFAIK the issue with many TV shows is (or used to be) that the actors would get more expensive as the show progresses over more than 1 or 2 years. A show may be cancelled despite good ratings because wages outrun revenues... thereby no longer making the execs a profit.

So they'd rather replace a show with 3 million fans but zero profit with a show that only has half a million fans but still runs a profit. Sadly.

[DurararaFTW]

I'm curious as to what they'll do with Young Griff. Jon, Dany and Robb may have acted older then they should, but wth YG, his role doesn't really work for someone midtwenties, if you ask me.

[Archmaester Marwin]

Very off topic, but is there any reason why GRRM wouldn't put in a 5 year gap in a later book of the series? Wrap up the necessary plot elements in ADWD and then make the jump in the next book? Or in the book after that?

With the same hair, and clean shaven, Bran will look older each season but it will be fine. I am glad you mentioned Hodor, cause that might be a huge part of it. The actor they cast is near 7 feet tall, and they likely diliberately cast child actors from not-so tall families. The juxtaposition of big and small will keep Bran looking plenty diminutive.

[Padraig]

I'm curious as to what they'll do with Young Griff. Jon, Dany and Robb may have acted older then they should, but wth YG, his role doesn't really work for someone midtwenties, if you ask me.

I think you can get away with it. They might have to change some of his motives a little but nothing fundamental should change.

[Leuf]

If the next couple of seasons continue to do well, then option 1 isn't an option. D&D seem to respect GRRM too much to go in a completely different direction. I can see them cutting bits and pieces of Tyrion's, Jons and Dany's plots but I don't see what is the problem with the overall plot. They can add chapters from tWoW if that helps also.

I agree with Elrond that I don't see any problem with the show getting through ASOS and it's after that there are problems. I also agree that D&D left to their own devices would rather stay as close to the books as possible. There is also the problem of the series getting past the already written book material. I know it's widely circulated they know how the series is supposed to end. But does anyone really want to watch the end of the series before the last book is even written? I know I don't. Does George want the real ending given away before he writes it? I don't think so. So I suspect the series has to diverge in a meaningful way at some point anyway, so why not do it at the point where the books are the most challenging and there is the least reward for staying completely faithful? Otherwise the series will have to stall until George finishes it.

[Anvik]

I saw an interview with GRRM where he said he has given D&D the highlights of the ending incase he gets hit by a bus or elsewise is unable to continue writing the series, thereby allowing the show to continue his legacy. This tells me that GRRM has a clear scope of what's happening in the next 2 (3) books and will progress rather rapidly as now that diverging plotlines have mostly been resolved at the end of ADWD things can begin to move forward again and converge, thus making writing easier. I hold hope that ADoS will be out with enough time to have it used as t he main source for the script of the final season of the show.

[Leuf]

While it's theoretically possible if GRRM keeps a 3 year cycle and the HBO series makes ASOS 2 seasons then they could both end in 2018, that's an awfully optimistic view on so many fronts. Can the HBO series run for 9+ years? Will GRRM write that fast? Will GRRM wrap up the story in 2 books? The safe money is against all 3 of them, but all three would have to happen.

The series was planned to be 3 books. Five books have been written and we haven't gotten to the original book 2 yet. Do you really think the last 2 aren't also going to grow into multiple volumes? It only takes 1 extra book to make it completely impossible. He has shown a lack of restraint and his editor is not reigning him in. I would strongly disagree that the diverging plotlines are mostly resolved in that Dance ended with unresolved situations all over the place. The story has to even back up from the end of Dance to start explaining what we've already read.

[DaveSumm]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the series as he planned it has only really got longer once: before aGoT was even finished, he changed from a three book to a five book plan. The first three went off as planned, the five year gap didn't work so he filled that in, but the remaining two books are still, as far as I know, the two books he intended to finish with before the completion of aGoT. So I don't really see why not to believe him when says he'll finish in two. Especially considering, let's not forget, that none of us know how it will end. It's tempting to say 'Dany still has to invade Westeros, the Starks still have to do this and that', but reading the series has taught me to ignore anything I think will happen. Once upon a time I thought 'how's Ned gonna get out if this? What's gonna happen with Dany's son? How's Robb gonna win the war now?'........all of which didn't have answers as we now know. I take nothing for granted anymore, including my initial assumption that Ice and Fire means there will be a Dragons/Others conflict at some point.