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Aegnor

How is this going to work long term?

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Why, because I am being a bastard? Because I showed signs of cruelty, did I threaten to betray your trust, have I already established myself as the sort of person who takes pleasure in hunting humans? Seems like you are talking out of your ass so far as that is concerned. Should I assume you have an awful skin condition?

My ass is known to produce remarkable stuff. My skin is fine though... All I'm saying is if you disagree with someone's pessimism, it's not really neccesary to say they shouldn't be here. That's all. There willl always be pessimists, and they won't go away because you question their presence. It's unnecesarily bitchy. The better option is to convince them to agree with you by using arguments.

And you do have good points btw. As you said, every book has a lot new characters. A lot of them have very interesting journeys/stories as well. This would mean that every new season would have a lot of new characters as well.

However, my point was that a book cannot be equated to a season in a sort of one-on-one translation. Take any tv show and it's basically a relatively set ensemble cast. Sure, some people drop off and some people are added on, but the core is often the same as the first season. Even The Sopranos, in which supposedly 'no one was safe' ended with Tony, Carmela, AJ, Meadow, Melfi, Paulie being alive. Main characters, basically. In asoiaf, the amount of killed characters does not balance the amount of characters introduced, which leads to all the balls in the air. The asoiaf books have new important characters added all the time, it just grows and grows. This is why it was deemed unfilmable in the first place.

I also agree with your assessment of affc and adwd. It's not that nothing happens, on the contrary, a lot of shit happens! The stories just feel more disconnected because the amount of characters and developments has become so vast. This is experienced by many as a slow plot (they actually mean: it's not the plot I want to read). Not by me btw! I think that many new characters and locations have their own unique charm.

Asoiaf is like a snowball rolling down a hill. The beginning is exciting and you can see it rolling towards you. However, the ball becomes so huge that, eventually, all you see is a a big white wall of snow. Everywhere. It seems to be stagnant but it's actually still rolling. Then it hits you. Hard.

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You do know that Tyrion doesn't spend his time travelling across the Narrow Sea in a barrel right? He is in the cabin of a ship. He only goes into a barrel for the short trip from the port in Pentos to Ilyrio's manse?

I was just being dramatic about it, but Tyrion is drunk off his ass when he's not in the barrel. The show needs to start out strong each season, and that means having some continuity with the characters the audience actually likes being front and center. This is what I hated about Feast more than anything else, it takes 100 pages just to get to someone I care about so I just got off on the wrong foot with it. I can reread those chapters one at a time and not really have a problem with them as standalone chapters, but as the start of the book all in a row I hate it. Now maybe if they pull some of Feast/Dance onto the tail end of the second season of Storm, then Tyrion could disappear near the end of the season, say ep 9 or whatever, and be really to go in ep 1.

Kevan or Pycelle may not be as important as Sansa/Arya but if the show focuses on them then they will become major enough characters. There is a reason why they were introduced in S1 (since they will be needed more down the line).

I assure you no nonreaders have any idea who Kevan Lannister is at this point, and will probably never care about him one bit. As I said above about putting characters the audience likes front and center, especially when you have a habbit of killing them along with the ones the audience loves to hate, you have to use the ones you have left. Maisie is a talent but the story shoves her off into her own world, only visited briefly by Sam. If you have the Stark children only in a few episodes while new characters are getting the screentime you're going to lose your audience.

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I was just being dramatic about it, but Tyrion is drunk off his ass when he's not in the barrel.

You don't think people will expect to see Tyrion be traumatised after killing his father and cutting ties with his brother? IMO seeing Tyrion reeling from the end of aSoS is actually very interesting and serves a very important point. Seeing him interact with Varys after killing Tywin will be very worthwhile also.

I think you are pushing the limits of credulity to stick to your views here. There is plenty happening with Tyrion. You may be right that they may not end a season with the end of aSoS. But I don't think it will be a problem if they do. The consequences of Tywin's death is great TV. Cersei's reaction. Jaime's reaction?

I assure you no nonreaders have any idea who Kevan Lannister is at this point, and will probably never care about him one bit.

The series would be doomed if that was true. They don't know who Stannis or Mel is either and we spend a lot of time with them. The only difference between Stannis and Kevan is that we have seen a little bit of Kevan already. There is no reason to believe that people wouldn't like him if we see more of him. I'm not saying that he'll ever be a major character but if the series goes well, he should be a nice secondary character who has a great scene in aFfC (and a few nice scenes with Tyrion in aSoS).

From Season 2 onwards, Arya doesn't interact with that many main characters, so no huge change there. They can easily invent new stuff for her if they want though. I think GRRM said he could write a book about just Arya's time in Braavos.

The main characters in this show are the Starks/Lannisters and Targaryens. Those characters remain the main characters in every book going forward. If people only like the Starks then the series is doomed since almost half of them are dead or really missing (e.g . Benjen) by the end of aSoS.

This is why it was deemed unfilmable in the first place.

Well, it was more than just that. I think the special effects was be an even bigger reason for wariness.

This series is unique in that it has more people killed off that other series. If people get fed up with that then the series wouldn't last. OTOH, people might love it (like they have so far). People do sometimes like brave and unique stories. AFfC and aDwD has a big cast but it just means they may have to cut a few more than they did in the first 2 books. Its not a dealbreaker. They can still be faithful to the overall story.

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However, my point was that a book cannot be equated to a season in a sort of one-on-one translation. Take any tv show and it's basically a relatively set ensemble cast. Sure, some people drop off and some people are added on, but the core is often the same as the first season. Even The Sopranos, in which supposedly 'no one was safe' ended with Tony, Carmela, AJ, Meadow, Melfi, Paulie being alive. Main characters, basically. In asoiaf, the amount of killed characters does not balance the amount of characters introduced, which leads to all the balls in the air. The asoiaf books have new important characters added all the time, it just grows and grows. This is why it was deemed unfilmable in the first place.

I agree with this. If Game of Thrones continues to stay fairly faithful to the books, it will probably have the largest cast ever for a tv program. And for the most part, the new characters that are introduced--with the exception of Oberyn--are not one book characters. They remain important to the plot and also have complicated backstories that are necessary to tell in order to understand their motivations. It's really an enormous task for the producers and writers; the only show that I can think of that comes close to the scope of ASOIAF is The Wire, which also had a gigantic cast made up of several different factions--police, drug dealers, city hall, dock workers. The difference with The Wire is that for the most part those factions and their storylines were all related and crossed over; in ASOIAF, that's not really the case yet. I have faith in the show, they did a very good job on the first season considering the scope, but it's only getting bigger as it goes along.

Another potential difficulty for the show is that characters are absent for whole books at a time and then return. This includes huge characters like Jaime and Sansa and even more minor ones like Walder Frey and Maester Aemon. It will be interesting to see how they handle the absence. For season 2, I think it's obvious so far that they've expanded Jaime's role to keep him in the season more than the one scene he has in the book--he also had more scenes in the first season than he did in AGOT. But I'm not sure if that will work with characters like Theon; he disappears for two books, and there's so much else going on that I don't think the show has time to cover what he's up to until it gets to that point in ADWD. This can also potentially pose problems with the actor, who may get another gig in teh meantime and not be available when the character's storyline is ready to be revisited on the show.

I see a lot of discussion on how the show will handle AFFC/ADWD, whether as combined into one season or even three. Hopefully Martin will have finished TWOW by the time they need to film those seasons. Several very important characters only have a few chapters in both books; I think Arya has five total, and Sansa only three, all in AFFC, which means Littlefinger is also only in three. There's no way they're going to do possibly two whole seasons with such little material for those characters. They could maybe get away with one season using the material in AFFC/ADWD for Sansa and Arya, but not two. Ultimately, if the show gets that far, I think there will be a large mish-mash of books 4-6, with the seasons ending in very different places than the books did. Really, the show will probably have to diverge rather significantly from teh books once it finishes ASOS. I don't imagine some plotlines, like Griff, working; I barely remembered who Connington was when I got to that in ADWD, adn there's no real way to establish that detail in the show in a way that isn't either really clunky or subtle enough for people to remember. I wonder if teh show will do something similar to what GRRM intended and introduce a couple year gap between seasons. Wouldn't be perfect obviously, but it might be a way of getting out of showing a lot of the stuff that just wouldn't work on television, such as Dany's time in Mereen and all the travels of various characters. It's a stretch, but I think it might be more workable than trying to cover what is actually in AFFC/ADWD.

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they had better keep the actors. The casting was the best part of the show, it will ruin it if they replace them. The kids were PERFECT. No, they must keep them. It is known.

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You don't think people will expect to see Tyrion be traumatised after killing his father and cutting ties with his brother? IMO seeing Tyrion reeling from the end of aSoS is actually very interesting and serves a very important point. Seeing him interact with Varys after killing Tywin will be very worthwhile also.

I think you are pushing the limits of credulity to stick to your views here. There is plenty happening with Tyrion. You may be right that they may not end a season with the end of aSoS. But I don't think it will be a problem if they do. The consequences of Tywin's death is great TV. Cersei's reaction. Jaime's reaction?

I already said it myself that I could see them stretching it out to a full season or go the other way to a half season, after I worked out a timeline. But my feeling is it was already pretty thin for Tyrion at 7 episodes. I would want to use Dinklage more than that.

The series would be doomed if that was true. They don't know who Stannis or Mel is either and we spend a lot of time with them. The only difference between Stannis and Kevan is that we have seen a little bit of Kevan already. There is no reason to believe that people wouldn't like him if we see more of him. I'm not saying that he'll ever be a major character but if the series goes well, he should be a nice secondary character who has a great scene in aFfC (and a few nice scenes with Tyrion in aSoS).

There is slightly more difference between the roles of Kevan and Stannis than that we have technically already met Kevan. Was his name ever even mentioned? I assure you again, to most of the audience he was just one of many of the advisors to Tywin sitting at the table and means nothing to them. I've read the books and he means nothing to me either. Maybe we'll see more of him in Winds and he'll become more interesting.

From Season 2 onwards, Arya doesn't interact with that many main characters, so no huge change there. They can easily invent new stuff for her if they want though. I think GRRM said he could write a book about just Arya's time in Braavos.

Now you're having to invent material for important characters just to give them screen time which can't affect the story in any way. This is the definition of filler.

The main characters in this show are the Starks/Lannisters and Targaryens. Those characters remain the main characters in every book going forward. If people only like the Starks then the series is doomed since almost half of them are dead or really missing (e.g . Benjen) by the end of aSoS.

But people are going to be very frustrated with the lack of progress in Dany's story. They are already right now impatient for her to start kicking ass with the dragons waiting for season 2. If you told them it was going to be 5 seasons and Dany would still be off in her own story nowhere near Westeros you would lose people. So at this point, yes people will like Dany, but they won't be happy with her story. They like Tyrion, which I've already gone on about at length that he needs to be front and center, and hopefully they will warm to Jaime, but they sure aren't going to like Cersei. They may find Stannis interesting, but they aren't going to "like" him. That leaves us with Jon to carry the show if Arya and Bran are marginalized.

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There is always room for improvement in anything, some just have a tone that would suggest that they could of written the series better themselves and have naught but criticism and pessimism to offer in terms of the later books in the series and the future of the show. It gets tiresome.

Right, there's a lot of them down here. I suggest you report those posts, where people claim being better writers than GRRM and offer nothing except criticism and pessimism, in hope that those trolls get banned in their diarrhea deleted. No need to just ask these halfmen, what are they doing here, it's time to take some action too.

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I already said it myself that I could see them stretching it out to a full season or go the other way to a half season, after I worked out a timeline. But my feeling is it was already pretty thin for Tyrion at 7 episodes. I would want to use Dinklage more than that.

Sorry, I just can't find a way to see the half season idea as anything but ridiculous. It doesn't make it any better that you also think they alternatively can "stretch" it to 10. Especially when your 7 episode timeline missed all the Tyrion stuff at the beginning (as I went through in my previous post). Easily making it 10 episodes. And Tyrion doesn't even have to appear in every episode, as I also said (like he didn't appear in all of S1). I'm sure I could go through aDwD in more detail and pick out other things that they could show.

There is slightly more difference between the roles of Kevan and Stannis than that we have technically already met Kevan. Was his name ever even mentioned?

But why is S1 important when it comes to talking about S3 or S4? I doubt people care that much about Theon in S1 also but he has a big role in S2. Kevan can become more important if the writers decide to focus more on him, like GRRM does in the books. I don't see what's the issue with that? (I'm not saying that he becomes a major character but he does have some good scenes).

Now you're having to invent material for important characters just to give them screen time which can't affect the story in any way.

They did this already in S1. That didn't hurt it then.

I'm not saying that people will like Cersei. Some characters are the definition of "love to hate". I really liked her story in aFfC but if you didn't, then I can understand if you are reticient about having a lot of her.

That leaves us with Jon to carry the show if Arya and Bran are marginalized.

It leaves us with Jon, Tyrion and Jaime as likeable major characters (unless you are still holding to this mad idea that Tyrion hasn't a lot to do. :)). Some people may be impatient with Dany but I don't think they'll start disliking her because of it. Bran has always been marginalised. So really, we are only losing Arya as a very visible major enough character. And I already offered a solution to that, if the writers think it a serious issue. I wouldn't completely bin all the material in aDwD/aFfC because one major character in the books doesn't have a lot to do in one part of the story.

And then there are other lesser characters that are likeable. Davos, Sam, Brienne etc

I don't imagine some plotlines, like Griff, working

Good post, although I would quibble with some points. Theon, in reality, only dissappears for 1 (admittedly big) book. Since aFfC and aDwD run in parallel with each other, I wouldn't count aFfC. LF is a challenge though.

And i'd disagree on Griff. That story is essential to Tyrion's story (and Vary's motives) and ties Dany together with Westeros more. And I don't see why it is clunky. Griff knew Dany's brother and has his son. What more do you need to know?

I don't see Dany's time in Meereen as not working. Might as well say her time in Qarth wouldn't work in S2.

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Good post, although I would quibble with some points. Theon, in reality, only dissappears for 1 (admittedly big) book. Since aFfC and aDwD run in parallel with each other, I wouldn't count aFfC. LF is a challenge though.

And i'd disagree on Griff. That story is essential to Tyrion's story (and Vary's motives) and ties Dany together with Westeros more. And I don't see why it is clunky. Griff knew Dany's brother and has his son. What more do you need to know?

I don't see Dany's time in Meereen as not working. Might as well say her time in Qarth wouldn't work in S2.

Just to be clear, I never meant that the Griff story was clunky in the books. My point was that for the show, the Griff and Aegon reveal is going to be very difficult without either being clunky or having audiences not know who the hell Jon Connington is. As of yet, baby Aegon hasn't been mentioned on the show, though from what I remember discussion of him came more in ASOS. But it will be difficult for tv audiences to remember that Aegon was the infant son of Rhaegar (who has only been a character briefly mentioned) that was killed 17 years ago. This will probably have to be covered in season 3 with Oberyn, but it might be a stretch to expect audiences to remember that. I wouldn't be surprised if the TV show abandoned this plotline completely.

The Qarth and Mereen storylines are a lot different. First, it's only the second season and Dany doesn't have an army adn the dragons are small so she's not really expected to march back to Westeros. Also, she only spends, at least in the book, like maybe four chapters in Qarth and interacts with only a few different characters, namely Xaro and Pyat Pree. Her story in Qarth is mainly taking a backseat to the action in Westeros; she only has five chapters in ACOK. In Mereen in ADWD, there are like nine chapters filled with Meereneese politics and tons of characters with weird names, like the Shavepate, the Seneschal, the Graces, Hizdahr, etc. That's a lot of new characters that I don't think tv audiences will care about and will be like most book readers: impatient with the Mereen plotline. I actually didn't dislike it as much as a lot of readers, but I don't think it will work at all on television, especially since in that season with Dany in Mereen there are at least 10 other important storylines going on: Jaime, Cersei, Bran, Jon, Tyrion, Arya, Theon etc. There's just way too much material to cover adequately. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if teh show cuts short Dany's time in Mereen, possibly even through the use of a flash forward of a few years.

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This will probably have to be covered in season 3 with Oberyn, but it might be a stretch to expect audiences to remember that. I wouldn't be surprised if the TV show abandoned this plotline completely.

They've already mentioned that the Targaryen children were killed in the series. And as you say, Oberyn will ensure its a very important point. I didn't think you meant that it was clunky in the book but I don't see why it would be clunky in the TV series either. I see it as a simple concept. We know, via Dany, that the Targaryens used to rule Westeros. So to have another secreted away is not terribly shocking. (There are a lot more complicated plots than that).

I actually think the Griff storyline is very important. To Tyrion's storyline in aDwD and to the future solution to the sucession war in Westeros. It also explains what Varys has been doing. So I would be shocked if it was dropped.

I'm not saying that Qarth and Meereen are the same. Its just that it is a precedent for her interacting with people in a foreign city. They may indeed cut layers from the Meereen storyline (and make it more like the Qarth storyline) but I can't see us skipping a few years. That will cause problems for all the other timelines. If the writers think it is too much in Meereen, they can make changes to that storyline but I can't see why they'd mess around with every storyline, just to improve Danys.

Personally, the only major problem with Dany's storyline is the lack of a proper ending.

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I don't think is really difficult

To summarize:

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

Season 1: Game of Thrones

Season 2: Clash of Kings

- Season finale : with no Reeds and Reek, it probably will end with Theon taking Winterfell + Blackwater + House of Undying + Jon with Wildings + Arya free

Season 3: Storm of Swords I

-Finale: Red Wedding + burning Winterfell + Dany in Yunkai + Jon leaving wildlings + Arya with the Hound

Season 4: Storm of Swords II + AFFC/ADWD I

Finale: Euron King + Martell plans + normal ending of SoS (Tyrion and Arya leaving Westeros, Dany ruling Mereen, Jon Lord Commander, Lysa's fall, etc)

Season 5: ADWD II + TWOW I

Finale: Battles of Mereen and Winterfell full revealed + Jon's ending + Brienne/Jaime ending + Dany with Dothraki + Sansa wed?

That sounds like the best option to me. And it's also the approach I think the showrunners are most likely to take... or maybe that's just optimism on my part :-)

TWOW is going to feel a very odd book, given that the first 100-200 pages are pretty much guaranteed to be 'climax'. If the TV show writers manage to get the Battles of Winterfell and Meereen at the end of a season instead of at the beginning of one, they'll have done better than Martin managed.

I'm curious now. Let's see how this scheme works out for the various characters.

Season 2: 8 arcs

Arya - time with Yoren, Gregor Clegane and at Harrenhal.

Sansa/Tyrion - in King's Landing, Tyrion's scheming, leading up to the Blackwater (this must be the primary arc with the most time devoted to it)

Theon - goes to the Iron Islands, returns, conquers Winterfell.

Jon - travels to the Fist, then with Qhorin, joins wildlings at very end

Catelyn - in the South with Renly. No Riverrun scenes, because it's not going to be appearing (I am still reeling in shock from this one)

Robb - in the West, plus his romance with Jeyne

Davos - a few brief scenes with Stannis, plus of course his part at Storm's End and Blackwater

Dany - mostly in Qarth, not much time devoted to her probably

No arc for Bran as there's probably no point having him appearing on-screen until the taking of Winterfell.

Season 3: 9 arcs

Theon/Bran - Theon as prince, Bran missing for a lot of it, plenty of time for scenes with 'Reek'

Jaime - Riverlands and Harrenhal, up to 'I dreamed of you'

Robb/Catelyn - scenes at Riverrun (I hope they introduce the Tullys in the book), travel north, the Red Wedding

Arya - alone, then with the BwB, then with the Hound

Tyrion/Sansa - really not doing a whole lot other than get married to each other

Davos - on Dragonstone, again not doing a whole lot

Jon - with the wildlings, climbing the wall, leaving wildlings (Queenscrown scene will have to be cut as Bran hasn't left Winterfell yet in this scheme!)

Dany - leaving Qarth, then Astapor and Yunkai

Sam - Old Bear's death and trek through the Forest only.

This could be a really effective season with the double reveal at the end of the Boltons' and Freys' treachery, but having Bran not leave Winterfell on time creates problems with both Jon and Sam. Also, some characters don't have a lot to do (but that's inevitable.)

Season 4: 10 arcs

Bran - journey to, and through, the Wall

Jaime/Cersei - in KL, through eventful events to after Tywin's funeral

Arya - with the Hound. Best have some scenes in Braavos too.

Tyrion - Joffrey's wedding, trial, murder of Tywin, Illyrio, end on the Rhoyne

Sansa - ditto plus Vale scenes, end with Lysa's fall

Jon/Sam - defence of the Wall, arrival of Stannis, Jon made commander, sends Sam away

Dany - conquest and initial rule of Meereen

Iron Islands - nice self-contained plot up to Euron King

Dorne - Arianne's plot

Theon - initial scenes up to Moat Cailin

Season 5: 15 arcs

Bran - meets Bloodraven

Cersei - plot against Margaery, general misrule, imprisonment and trial

Jaime - travels in the Riverlands to disappearance

Arya - scenes in Braavos

Sam - journey south

Tyrion - journey east, role in Meereen battle

Sansa - a few scenes in the Vale

Jon - letting the wildlings through the wall and getting killed

Dany - marrying Hizdahr, fighting pits scene, with Dothraki

Barristan/Quentyn - dragons free, battle of Meereen

Victarion - journey east, also battle

Asha - Deepwood Motte to Winterfell

Theon - mostly at Winterfell until battle

Davos - Manderly scenes

Connington - conquest of stormlands at end, maybe battle of Storm's End?

Cut Brienne, and Quentyn before he arrives in Meereen. I hate to be brutal, but...

Thoughts would be great.

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I think Maisie already had a growth spurt ( saw her in sneak peek for season 2 and there were some lady lumps that they were trying to cover) most girls stop growing by age 15. It is known.

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Sorry, I just can't find a way to see the half season idea as anything but ridiculous. It doesn't make it any better that you also think they alternatively can "stretch" it to 10. Especially when your 7 episode timeline missed all the Tyrion stuff at the beginning (as I went through in my previous post). Easily making it 10 episodes. And Tyrion doesn't even have to appear in every episode, as I also said (like he didn't appear in all of S1). I'm sure I could go through aDwD in more detail and pick out other things that they could show.

It's about boiling the story down to the essential elements and then accomplishing the same thing in the time and budget you have available. GRRM needs to introduce Griff & co through a POV character, the show doesn't. So there's a good chunk of Tyrion's story where he is just an observer where an observer isn't needed.

But why is S1 important when it comes to talking about S3 or S4? I doubt people care that much about Theon in S1 also but he has a big role in S2. Kevan can become more important if the writers decide to focus more on him, like GRRM does in the books. I don't see what's the issue with that? (I'm not saying that he becomes a major character but he does have some good scenes).

Why would you want to do that at the expense of time with characters that are already developed and the actors for which you are already paying?

They did this already in S1. That didn't hurt it then.

But these are some of the weakest scenes in the series. Where the original material is strongest is when they created an orginal scene that condenses information into one scene that would have otherwise taken several. I will grant you it's pretty hard to screw up anything with Arya in it though.

It leaves us with Jon, Tyrion and Jaime as likeable major characters (unless you are still holding to this mad idea that Tyrion hasn't a lot to do. :)). Some people may be impatient with Dany but I don't think they'll start disliking her because of it. Bran has always been marginalised. So really, we are only losing Arya as a very visible major enough character. And I already offered a solution to that, if the writers think it a serious issue. I wouldn't completely bin all the material in aDwD/aFfC because one major character in the books doesn't have a lot to do in one part of the story.

I'm giving Jaime a mulligan, as even though I don't see his story in Feast/Dance being too compelling I think they are already changing/advancing his story in s2 so we'll just have to see what happens. And I never said to completely bin everything in Feast/Dance, just that there ought to be changes eventually and this would be the best time to start having them.

Personally what I would do is have Dany go directly to Dorne in secret after Storm, and also Tyrion. Elsewhere I have defended Tyrion and Dany's stories in Dance, so I'm going against myself here. I just think that would work so much better for the show, bringing characters and plotlines into fewer areas, cutting down all the long distance travelling, and moving the story forward. You can illustrate Cersei's ineptitude by having her ignore reports of dragons right in their backyard, something easy to convey without a lot of fuss and without needing any new characters. Yes I'm throwing out a lot of Dance there. I'd throw out a lot of Brienne's story in Feast But I'd stay as true to the spirit of what I was tossing out as possible with what took its place.

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...

Sforzando, a largely plausible option.

The Battle of Winterfell has to be shown before Jon gets his letter, unless they skip the battle altogether, which is not implausible. Especially if they choose to show some of the battle in Meereen instead. But we shouldn't assume that they will show those battles (if we get that far). Having a resolution to those conflicts is the important part though.

I would imagine we will see a reasonable amount of Dany in S2. And I would disagree wrt to Theon. Most of the stuff you put in for S3 for Theon will happen in S2. Your theory is a popular internet one but (AFAICT) there is nothing to support it. There is evidence to support the idea that we'll see Bran and Rickon's escape in S2. I think we'll see a bit of Bran before Theon arrives also, as I expect we'll see Cassel return to Winterfell.

I don't expect Brienne to be cut. We might lose some scenes though. Chapters more likely to be cut are Victarions and some of the Martells. We have to see how Brienne ended up meeting Jaime again.

It's about boiling the story down to the essential elements and then accomplishing the same thing in the time and budget you have available.

Well that's a hugely broad statement but it says nothing really, as we will endlessly disagree on what is essential and what isn't. How quieter moments are vital moments and not filler.

Sure, Griff could be introduced in another way but why bother? The show could do a huge amount of things differently from the books but the writers don't seem to want to do that. They are happy to get rid of battles because of cost or merge characters for the same reason but overall they have been very faithful. Because they love the books!

Why would you want to do that at the expense of time with characters that are already developed and the actors for which you are already paying?

And this is why I mentioned Stannis and Mel before. Why spend time on them, why develop them, when you can spend time with existing characters? But wait, Kevan is existing! Why do you think they are paying him if he basically has no purpose ever?

I don't agree with you regarding the weakest scenes in the series. I liked Robert and Cersei's chat. I really liked the first LF/Varys confrontation. I liked Jaime/Jorys interaction etc. Sure, there were some weaker scenes also but every scene isn't going to be very strong.

And I never said to completely bin everything in Feast/Dance,

Heh. :) Your rest of post basically did this. You decided to re-write aDwD/aFfC and say you'd try to stay true to the "spirit". That's always used as an excuse to butcher a story.

There have already been changes. And there will be more. But I expect the changes will remain within reason. For example, I don't think Jaime's story will really change. Jaime been in a dungeon isn't an essential part of his story. He is still a prisoner either way.

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I kind of lost track of this thread I started, and I haven't caught up yet, but I did want to address a comment made about Harry Potter.

I don't think that is a valid comparison. It is trivial for a 25 year old to play a 17 year old. It is not trivial for a 17 year old to play a 12 year old, unless it is an extremely young looking 17 year old (less of an issue with women than men). As an example, imagine the actor playing Harry Potter, playing him in the first movie, at the age he was during filming of the last movie. I remember thinking after the 4th Potter movie that they were home free now. The character ages had reached the point that they could be played by even someone in their 20s.

I'm sure they'll figure it out though. I just think the characters will be altered from how they are in the book. Bran sounds like a child in the book. A mature child, yes, but a child none the less. In the series the actor will be closing in on 18 and it will alter the character.

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I'm sure they'll figure it out though. I just think the characters will be altered from how they are in the book. Bran sounds like a child in the book. A mature child, yes, but a child none the less. In the series the actor will be closing in on 18 and it will alter the character.

Yes, it will alter the character. But GRRM originally envisioned these characters to be older for the 2nd part of this series (post aSoS), so in some ways, their ages will be closer to that vision. We wouldn't have kids saving the world!

So yes, I don't think its a major problem.

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Heh. :) Your rest of post basically did this. You decided to re-write aDwD/aFfC and say you'd try to stay true to the "spirit". That's always used as an excuse to butcher a story.

Dany can go through a similar emotional journey in Dorne as in Meereen. She can learn about ruling from Doran. She can have to choose whether to enter an arranged marriage with Quentyn to secure he throne and peace for Westeros. She can have to chain up her dragons to keep them secret. It doesn't have to be so different. I think most of us assume Tyrion is going to end up in Dany's arc more than their brief almost meeting, so we're just using a shortcut there. If that's not where the story is headed then it makes less sense. It doesn't change any of what happens in the north, King's Landing, the Vale, the BWB, Jaime, or Arya. It changes the Ironborn story, but they can travel to Dorne just as well if they are kept as significant players.

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Dany can go through a similar emotional journey in Dorne as in Meereen.

She can learn to rule by not ruling? Been given a few tips by Doran can be comparble to grabbling with the huge difficulties in Meereen? (And its when we read her solution to her Meereen problem in tWoW that we will see what lessons she has really learned). Nothing that could happen in Dorne is comparable.

And given the whole serious point of the dragons eating people, they can't be a secret! So that's out too. It makes the whole plot in KL and with Stannis silly given the huge threat in Dorne.

Really, if Dany lands in Dorne she isn't going to be hiding the fact.

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I think they are going to break the books down like this.

Season 3 - SoS up to the Red Wedding (Possibly Ending with Purple Wedding. They could either end S3 with this, or do it early in S4)

Season 4 - Last third of SoS with the Ironborn Chapters from Feast intermixed.

Season 5 - Feast and Dance.

There isn't a single POV Story Arc in Feast or Dance that couldn't be told on screen in 7-8 episodes. That said, the storylines that work chronologically in Feast/Dance should be moved up. Unfortunately, the only one that really works is the Ironborn stuff, which can easily be told along side the events of SoS.

I would like to see the Dornish stuff moved up, but it wouldn't work chronologically, since all of that has to happen AFTER the Red Viper fights The Mountain, which would likely happen toward the end of S4. And they wouldnt cast all the Dornish actors and build all of the Dornish Sets to use in only 2-3 episodes toward the end of S4. Logically and financially, it would make more sense to start the Dornish stuff early in S5.

Now with regards to Bran and Theon's story. I think early S2 will consist of Theon spending time in the Iron Islands getting to know Asha/Balon, and Bran learning to be the lord of Winterfell. Likely with Rodrick coming back to assist. I think S2 will end (Last 1-2 Episodes) with Theon arriving at Winterfell and taking it. Bran/Rickon will escape, and Theon skins the Millers boys, and the season ends with us thinking Bran is dead.

S3 will start with Bran not being dead, but having escaped and on the road heading either North or South to Howland Reed. I think he'll meet the Reeds early in S3 and spend all season with them learning Warging, or something else. Perhaps they can "almost" meetup with John near the wall, then come back upon hearing that Winterfell is destroyed. But somehow he'll end up back at Winterfell for the S3 finale.

I think Theon will spend most of S3 "ruling" Winterfell. I think they'll bring Asha to Winterfell early in S3 (Or perhaps she never splits with Theon in S2) and introduce Ramsay early on as Reek, building the chemistry between Theon/Ramsay all season long. They could also introduce Victarion or Aeron in S3 and bring them to Winterfell and into the story earlier, further developing Theon's S3 arc. Toward the end of S3, word reaches Winterfell that Balon has died, and Asha and possibly her uncle leave.

Eventually Ramsay then leaves for reinforcements. Rodrick returns with his army. Ramsay returns with his, then kills Rodrick and betrays Theon. Queue Bran returning in the S3 finale to find Maester Lumin and splitting with Rickon/Osha. Bran's S4 and S5 storyline is then most of the events of SoS and Dance.

Meanwhile, Theon/Ramsay in S4 can take place in either Dreadfort or Winterfell with his torture and transformation taking place, further building the chemistry of those two on the show. Then S5 for them are the events in Dance.

I also think that Edric Storm is going to get cut and replaced by Gendry in S3, since Gendry doesnt really do much post S2, and he's also setup and already introduced to the audience as Roberts Bastard. Arya can spend time with the Brotherhood without Gendry.

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Season 4 - Last third of SoS with the Ironborn Chapters from Feast intermixed.

A lot happens in the last third of aSoS but are you seriously saying that as much happens in that third as all of aFfC/aDwD? :)

I'd agree with some of your Bran ideas but not sure what you mean when you say that he'll end up back at Winterfell at the end of S3? Why would he do that?

And not very unsure about your whole Reek/Theon storyline. Building chemistry doing what? You'd have to invent a whole new storyline for them. If they were focused on building chemistry between those 2, they would have introduced Reek in S2. Ramsay may still appear in GoT but I think Reek is out.

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