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Aegnor

How is this going to work long term?

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A lot happens in the last third of aSoS but are you seriously saying that as much happens in that third as all of aFfC/aDwD? :)

Nah I'm saying they would expand the events in the second half of Storms, which would be alot easier to do considering how dense it is already and the fact that it would involve the same actors and set locations. They aren't going to bring all the actors and sets that would be used in Dance/Feast for a few episodes of S4. It's too expensive that way, especially with all the locations and stuff already going on in SoS.

I'd agree with some of your Bran ideas but not sure what you mean when you say that he'll end up back at Winterfell at the end of S3? Why would he do that?

So they can extend Theon's CoTK story arc, adapt the final chapter of CoK, kill off Luwin, and split Bran/Rickon, which very likely isnt going to happen in S2 at this point. If they completed Theon's CoK arc in S2, he would have nothing to do for two full seasons. Unless they planned to kill him off at the end of S2 and cut Ramsay all together from the show, but I really don't think they would do that.

And not very unsure about your whole Reek/Theon storyline. Building chemistry doing what? You'd have to invent a whole new storyline for them. If they were focused on building chemistry between those 2, they would have introduced Reek in S2. Ramsay may still appear in GoT but I think Reek is out.

Because it's a TV show and not a book. You need to have the actors playing those characters build chemistry so they can play off one another and come across properly on screen. If there's no chemistry, especially with characters who are going to be spending alot of time with each other, at least multiple seasons if they cast Ramsay, they would need to develop chemistry. And the best way to NOT do that is have them both off screen for two whole seasons, which is what would happen if they followed the books verbatim.

Also, anybody else think that Yunkai the city is going to get cut? I think they can easily merge the events that take place there with the mercenaries into Astapor or Meereen. That saves them from having to build and explain another city. Even if it's just digital. I think Dany's stuff will break down like this.

Season 3 - Arrives in Astapor. Meets Belwas and Arstan. Focuses on slavery and the Unsullied for much of the season and ends with Dany buying the Unsullied and unleashing them on their masters.

Season 4 - Dany reaches Meereen with her army. The Yunkai events take place here and she meets Dario. We meet some of the Meereen characters who are introduced in Dance early. She conquers Meereen. Becomes Queen. Season ends. Maybe some stuff from Dance is moved up if it could work.

Season 5 - More or less her entire arc from Dance, possibly ending with another Meereen battle depending on what happens in the beginning of Winds of Winter.

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So they can extend Theon's CoTK story arc, adapt the final chapter of CoK, kill off Luwin, and split Bran/Rickon, which very likely isnt going to happen in S2 at this point. If they completed Theon's CoK arc in S2, he would have nothing to do for two full seasons. Unless they planned to kill him off at the end of S2 and cut Ramsay all together from the show, but I really don't think they would do that.

I actually think Theon's ACOK story arc will fully conclude in season 2. Having it end in season 3, as you mention, just doesn't work with all the other stories unless they change them around significantly. For instance, the whole reason why Catelyn frees Jaime is because she learns of the "deaths" of Bran and Rickon at the hands of Theon. If they save that event for season 3, then Jaime doesn't get released until season 3, and I don't think there's any chance of that happening. What you say would give Theon stuff to do in season 3, but what's the problem in shelving the character for a whole season like in the book? It's not conventional, but I think it's the best approach. With all that's going on in ASOS, the show doesn't really have time to also cover Theon, whether it's the later events of ACOK or him in the dreadfort. Provided that the show can hang onto Alfie Allen with him being absent for a season or two, I think the best approach is just to have Theon gone for seasons 3 and possibly 4.

I agree about Yunkai, that's likely to be cut or the events will pass between episodes. By that I mean Dany or someone will mention that they've conquered it or the episode will begin with her having already taken the city and moved on. Might be somewhat clumsy, but it saves a lot of money from an event that isn't necessary for the tv show.

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Nah I'm saying they would expand the events in the second half of Storms, which would be alot easier to do considering how dense it is already and the fact that it would involve the same actors and set locations.

Just no. Or how? I'm not arguing that 1/3 of a book could become a full season (although it probably is debateable). I'm arguing whether 1/3 of a book = 2 later books. Have you thought about how they could expand the last third of aSoS so that it is as eventful as 2 books combined? It doesn't strike you as a rather strange notion? Why would you want to expand 1/3 of a book and then start chopping big piles of plot for books 4 and 5?

And why do you think Luwin meeting Bran is such a key part of the story? I think Arrogant Bastard is right but even if he was wrong, I can't see how your theory makes sense. You don't need to introduce Reek in S3 so that they have chemistry for S5 (say). If the writing is good, they'll have chemistry in S5 without a long lead up.

I haven't totally ruled out the idea that they will not show the last Theon chapter from aCoK in S2. But even if the full arc is in S2, they can still give Theon a small role in S3 (e.g. show him been brought to the Dreadfort). You don't have to completely write him out, depends on the contract.

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She can learn to rule by not ruling? Been given a few tips by Doran can be comparble to grabbling with the huge difficulties in Meereen? (And its when we read her solution to her Meereen problem in tWoW that we will see what lessons she has really learned). Nothing that could happen in Dorne is comparable.

The only thing Dany learned about ruling in Meereen was that if you want to rule rabbits you'd best put on floppy ears. But oops, she already knew that when she tried to get Viserys to dress like the Dothraki. She says she wants to learn to rule, but what she actually does is nothing because she's not ready yet to change anything about herself. She can be not ready just as easily in Dorne.

And given the whole serious point of the dragons eating people, they can't be a secret! So that's out too. It makes the whole plot in KL and with Stannis silly given the huge threat in Dorne.

That was a means to the end of the dragons being locked up. Being there in secret is just as good of a reason. The timeline would advance, and that's the whole freaking point of moving her story there, so once there's an escape and word starts getting out then you have Cersei at first ignoring the reports. Stannis would already be at the wall and perhaps already commited to marching on Winterfell by the time word reached them. You have Varys in play and if he doesn't want people to know about Dany he can be spreading disinformation to confuse the issue.

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I made a timetable for the long term, which seems to be the most acceptable one:

A Game of Thrones - Season 1 (2011)

A Clash of Kings - Season 2 (2012)

A Storm of Swords (Part 1) - Season 3 (2013)

A Storm of Swords (Part 2) - Season 4 (2014)

A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons (Part 1) - Season 5 (2015)

A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons (Part 2) - Season 6 (2016)

What if Martin didn't finish The Winds of Winter by then? Let's say he did.

The Winds of Winter (Part 1) - Season 7 (2017)

The Winds of Winter (Part 2) - Season 8 (2018)

I assume two seasons, depending on the length. Then maybe he finished A Dream of Spring by then.

A Dream of Spring (Part 1) - Season 9 (2019)

A Dream of Spring (Part 2) - Season 10 (2020)

If that all makes sense, it would mean that all the characters would be 9 nine years older then they were in the first season. Compare Harry Potter from the first movie to the last one, and see the difference. I don't think it's going to work.

And then we ain't even sure yet if Martin will be able to finish The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring at the time HBO reached the end of A Dance with Dragons.

Besides all of that: Sansa will be gorgeous by the end of the series, mark my words.

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I made a timetable for the long term, which seems to be the most acceptable one:

Acceptable to whom? Yourself? Congratulations.

And then we ain't even sure yet if Martin will be able to finish The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring at the time HBO reached the end of A Dance with Dragons.

Wait, we still don't know this? I hope somebody reiterates this point every few weeks for the next several years, just to make sure nobody forgets.

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Leuf, I thought you defended Dany's actions in aDwD somewhere else? It didn't take much to change that tune. :)

She says she wants to learn to rule, but what she actually does is nothing because she's not ready yet to change anything about herself. She can be not ready just as easily in Dorne.

I really don't think so. She tried to rule and failed at it in many ways. In future books she will think back at what she did and did not do right and we'll see her learn from it. For it is not particularly believeable that she would get it right first time. (After aSoS people complained that she had it too easy!) So no, she can't hide in Dorne and do...whatever you think she should do?

Because seriously, how exciting could Dany hiding out in Dorne be? Clearly not very exciting since nobody important hears about it...

If you want to change the books hugely, at least think up something exciting. Similarly with the dragons. You want it to be easy. That she will magically be able to control them, sucking away any tension. How could this possibly be a good idea?

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Leuf, I thought you defended Dany's actions in aDwD somewhere else? It didn't take much to change that tune. :)

What I defended was that if you wanted Tyrion to end up an advisor to Dany but Tyrion to go directly to Dany that just wouldn't be believable. They aren't compatible with each other at the end of ASOS. Dany needs to be able to put aside her ideals and accept Tyrion's practicality, and Tyrion needs to be able to extend his love of broken things to something larger than an individual. But I'd be willing to suspend disbelief on that for the purpose of the show. I can approve of the end result of what happens to the two of them without actually liking the content of what happens.

I really don't think so. She tried to rule and failed at it in many ways. In future books she will think back at what she did and did not do right and we'll see her learn from it. For it is not particularly believeable that she would get it right first time. (After aSoS people complained that she had it too easy!) So no, she can't hide in Dorne and do...whatever you think she should do?

There's no substitute for experience, but no one ever gets to be ruler of an entirely different realm for practice so it doesn't matter when they fail. Dany has already been through some crazy experiences. She grew up with an example of a horrible leader, married another leader from a different culture, and then leads her small group of people. I would put her experiences above being groomed in a castle any day.

Because seriously, how exciting could Dany hiding out in Dorne be? Clearly not very exciting since nobody important hears about it...

If you want to change the books hugely, at least think up something exciting.

It appears if I change anything that's wrong, and I also need to change it even more at the same time. Well okay. GRRM says himself he needs to find a way to bring Drogo back, which he can't. But for the show I'd make it so the Others were the spirits of true warriors who did not die from battle. Drogo becomes Khal of the Others. The end pretty much writes itself. Not as original as what I hope GRRM comes up with but it'd make for good tv, and like I said I want them to have their own different ending.

Similarly with the dragons. You want it to be easy. That she will magically be able to control them, sucking away any tension. How could this possibly be a good idea?

I do? When did I say that? I want her to actually do something to try to train them. I want Tyrion to get there and actually do something to try to train them. Locking them up and ignoring them is crazy. In my not so different alternative, Quentyn can still get roasted and they escape. There's lots of options depending on how close you want to stay to the books, you've just got the ability to do it with fewer characters.

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GRRM says himself he needs to find a way to bring Drogo back, which he can't. But for the show I'd make it so the Others were the spirits of true warriors who did not die from battle. Drogo becomes Khal of the Others. The end pretty much writes itself. Not as original as what I hope GRRM comes up with but it'd make for good tv, and like I said I want them to have their own different ending.

I'm pretty sure GRRM was joking if he said this. He would never really consider bringing Drogo back to life just because he was a fan favorite of the tv show, and I'm sure both Benioff and Weiss won't do that either.

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