A Thread for Small Questions X

[Brendan Moody]

I'll still be able to sleep at night, but just that she and Thoros were alone and she didn't know where she was at all, she doesn't seem to recognize him from before and it is told from her point of view the entire time. Usually, GRRM is excellent at the small details and I'm the one who misses them.

I wondered about that too, while rereading FEAST a couple days ago. I seem to recall that someone involved in one of the translations of FEAST received a version of that Brienne chapter with some notable differences from the final text (edit: and lo, that alternate Brienne ending has a thread of its own); it may be that there was a late rewrite resulting in a minor continuity problem that was missed during proofreading.

[Mother of Dragons]

I also found it curious that she knew Biter by name, but there is no mention of them ever crossing paths before the fight at the crossroads inn

I'm rereading ASOS right now, Biter and Rorge were with Brave Companions since CoK. If you recall, they both were among the Brave Companions who abducted her w/Jaime when they lopped off his hand.

Jaime knew their names bc they'd been Tywin's sellswords before ol' Roose left the Goat as Lord of Harrenhal. These were the dudes who wanted to rape Brienne until Jaime saved her by lying about the "sapphires".

[Talleyrand]

Jaime knew their names bc they'd been Tywin's sellswords before ol' Roose left the Goat as Lord of Harrenhal. These were the dudes who wanted to rape Brienne until Jaime saved her by lying about the "sapphires".

How would Jaime know that they had been Tywin's men? By the time they joined he'd been in prison for a while and then they'd switched to Roose by the time he was out. I thought he'd just heard their names in Harrenhal

[The Warmth of Winter]

Can someone explain something for me? Why did the bastard of Bolton kill the people and burn Winterfell?

[Mother of Dragons]

How would Jaime know that they had been Tywin's men? By the time they joined he'd been in prison for a while and then they'd switched to Roose by then time he was out. I thought he'd just heard their names in Harrenhal

Now I'll have to flip through, but IIRC, he, meaning Jaime, was surprised when he found out the Brave Companions were no longer Lannister Sellswords. I thought I remembered one of the BCs reiterating how they used to work for the Lannisters.

I'll have to confirm, but that was the impression I had when reading through.

[Brendan Moody]

Now I'll have to flip through, but IIRC, he, meaning Jaime, was surprised when he found out the Brave Companions were no longer Lannister Sellswords. I thought I remembered one of the BCs reiterating how they used to work for the Lannisters.

I'll have to confirm, but that was the impression I had when reading through.

I've just looked back at the chapter where Jaime and Brienne were captured, and he does indeed think the Brave Companions are working for the Lannisters. I can't tell offhand whether he's supposed to have known that before his capture, or if he only learned of it after his release, from Ser Cleos, who does fill him in on other events in the riverlands. He knows that his father refers to them as "dogs," though, which suggests a long-standing association.

[zmflavius]

Can someone explain something for me? Why did the bastard of Bolton kill the people and burn Winterfell?

I think primarily because at the time, Bolton had already decided to betray the Starks, but also because he's an asshole.

[Mother of Dragons]

How would Jaime know that they had been Tywin's men? By the time they joined he'd been in prison for a while and then they'd switched to Roose by the time he was out. I thought he'd just heard their names in Harrenhal

OK- in the US mass market edition (before the HBO tie in cover) on p.292, Jaime III (Jaime's thoughts):

"He knew them. The Brave Companions."

Then a little further down the page:

"Jaime had no use for these than he did for Gregor Clegane or Armory Lorch. Dogs, his father called them all, and he used them as dogs, to hound his prey and put fear in their hearts."

I won't quote everything, its all in the chapter, but after this thought is when Jaime feels apprehension after asking the "Bloody Mummers" where the goat was- they are insolent in their reactions and Jaime's warning alarms are going off in his head, basically.

The mummers call out to each other by name when arguing over raping Brienne. Rorge's name is used. However, I'm sure given Jaime's rank & station (and personality) he wouldn't of bothered learning their names anyway, other than their leader, Vargo Hoat.

Presumably, Brienne & Jaime probably learned their names while travelling back to Harrenhal. Or that's what I assumed...not that it matters too much.

[Talleyrand]

I was talking about Rorge and Biter specifically and how Jaime would know their names seeing as by the time they left KL Jaime was already prisoner of the starks

[Rinso]

Can someone explain something for me? Why did the bastard of Bolton kill the people and burn Winterfell?

Mainly, because with Robb gone and fighting a doomed war far away in the South, there was a power vacuum in the North. He just wanted to profit from it. He began trying this earlier when he tried to get the lands of Lady Hornwood.

[Mother of Dragons]

I've just looked back at the chapter where Jaime and Brienne were captured, and he does indeed think the Brave Companions are working for the Lannisters. I can't tell offhand whether he's supposed to have known that before his capture, or if he only learned of it after his release, from Ser Cleos, who does fill him in on other events in the riverlands. He knows that his father refers to them as "dogs," though, which suggests a long-standing association.

I didn't see your post bc it takes so long for me to type as I'm using my touchscreen android instead of my laptop.

You're line of thinking is probably correct about poor old Cleos filling him in. I think sometimes GRRM uses his own line of logic to explain things, and presumably the reader should draw the same conclusion. Just what I gather from reading some of his responses from q&a sessions amd interviews.

[Brandon the Epithetless]

I have a small question (or 3) from the previous thread that no one answered ( I think). The small question is: Why is the Horn of Herrock mentioned every time it is used to signify that Jaime and co's arrival? Is it famous? If yes, what is it famous for?

I always assumed Herrock was a member of House Hoare one of Harren's ancestors, certainly fits with what seem to be the traditional Hoare name forms like Harren, Harwyn and Harreg. Perhaps a family heirloom used for warnings and such and Harren installed it in Harrenhal after he transferred his seat there.

How would Jaime know that they had been Tywin's men? By the time they joined he'd been in prison for a while and then they'd switched to Roose by the time he was out. I thought he'd just heard their names in Harrenhal

We don't know when Tywin commissioned the Mummer's services, but the fact that Jaime assumed they were under Lannister employment suggests they came with the Lannister forces before the split into the Riverrun and Green Fork hosts, and then deployed along with Lorch's men to aid Gregor's advance party in the rape of the Riverlands.

Re Rorge and Biter I agree with MoD, that they would have overheard their names on the way to Harrenhal.

[Dalfiatach]

Can someone explain something for me? Why did the bastard of Bolton kill the people and burn Winterfell?

Because at this stage his Da was already angling to betray the Starks and become the Warden of the North himself. Re-read Arya's chapters in Harrenhal - Roose deliberately sends the army of Stark Loyalists off to get slaughtered in Duskendale and is already plotting and scheming when the word comes in about Theon "murdering" Bran and Rickon.

I'm assuming Ramsay knew all this and knew that if the Boltons were to be the new leaders of the North then symbols of Stark power like Winterfell needed to be destroyed. You don't want to leave symbols for Stark loyalists to rally around. If the burning can be blamed on the Ironmen and not the Boltons then all the better.

[Mother of Dragons]

I was talking about Rorge and Biter specifically and how Jaime would know their names seeing as by the time they left KL Jaime was already prisoner of the starks

Rorge's name is used in Jaime III, Biter is referred to in Jaime's thoughts as the 'noseless one'. Rorge's name is said allowed. While a quick skim of Jaime IV doesn't use Biter's name, it seems Jaime has learned their names bc he's referring to one of them as Zollo. If Jaime knows, I'm sure Brienne picked up on it too.

[jfrenchy]

what kind of indoor floor coverings constitutes as rushes? and remember pycelle even spits a wad of phlegm at his rushes so i hope this isn't supposed to be some sort of carpeting found in someones bedroom

[Mother of Dragons]

Because at this stage his Da was already angling to betray the Starks and become the Warden of the North himself. Re-read Arya's chapters in Harrenhal - Roose deliberately sends the army of Stark Loyalists off to get slaughtered in Duskendale and is already plotting and scheming when the word comes in about Theon "murdering" Bran and Rickon.

I totally missed that during 1st & 2nd readthroughs! Good catch! Makes me wonder how much more I'll pick up on my 3rd readthrough after digesting book 5.

Re: the Boltons:

I found the relationship between Roose & his bastard confusing too. He seems to feel contempt for his bastard son when he finds out he was 'killed', but then seems to change his mind later. I mean, there is no way Roose would know about the Reek bait & switch, it was a snap decision the Bolton Bastard made to save his own life.

So now he respects his son? Or maybe its the point made earlier, its not about love/respect, its about Roose's powerplay for the North.

Maybe Roose will sell out his bastard son when he's done using him. There definitely didn't seem to be much affection coming from dad. Roose strikes me to lack empathy for anyone.

[Mother of Dragons]

what kind of indoor floor coverings constitutes as rushes? and remember pycelle even spits a wad of phlegm at his rushes so i hope this isn't supposed to be some sort of carpeting found in someones bedroom

I remember wondering the same thing, then assuming they were rugs or carpets. Pycelle is just a dirt-bag.

[zmflavius]

what kind of indoor floor coverings constitutes as rushes? and remember pycelle even spits a wad of phlegm at his rushes so i hope this isn't supposed to be some sort of carpeting found in someones bedroom

This

[jfrenchy]

that looks like a bunch of weeds thrown on the floor. somehow i thought it would of been thicker

[zmflavius]

that looks like a bunch of weeds thrown on the floor. somehow i thought it would of been thicker

That essentially is what rushes are.